'Equal Gaming' documentary out

24-11-2014 03:19

Swedish film makers Simon Engstrand and Johan Larsson have released 'Equal Gaming', a documentary about equality in eSports featuring female team TacTiX.

Produced as a school project, 'Equal Gaming' follows Team TacTiX, a Swedish/Spanish mixture, as they attend this year's Copenhagen Games event, which featured a €7,000 female CS:GO tournament.

Besides showing what a competitive female tournament is like, the documentary also intends to stir the debate over whether eSports events should stay divided by genre or be mixed.

"We tried to look at the issue from multiple perspectives because this is not an easy question and there are a lot of good arguments from both sides," Simon Engstrand told HLTV.org.

"Hopefully the movie will cause more debate around this issue because I think it's a problem for the future of e-sports that the scene is so male-dominated."

You can watch the 23-minute long documentary, with which Simon Engstrand and Johan Larsson competed at Novemberfestivalen, one of the biggest film festivals in Sweden, below:

let's see

2014-11-24 03:21

33 replies

Female teams have proportionally equal or more sponsors than male teams. Take BMG for example who didn't win a single game against the male scene (except for walkover) yet has more sponsors than other male teams that have made their way through the qualifiers (which females can attend) in countless other tournament. And gaming houses... errr. I think there's like 10 teams that have gaming houses in CSGO. Why would you give it to a team that won't even try to qualify for top tournaments or have done it and failed spectacularly? Milleniums female team even has access to the gaming house and has bootcamped there just last month. I THINK it's the same is true for LDLC and some other female teams. I'm all for promoting them a little more than the male second divisions. I'd enjoy them playing their finals on the main stage, but it's probably gonna be impossible on DHW since there's like different 10 games. Even though I don't really believe they should even have female tournaments to begin with but that would probably be a step forward anyway. Qualify like the rest of the teams though. Inviting minorities like female teams or teams from faraway countries that can't afford it themselves can be good to a degree. I just feel it's a little bullshit of people to say they don't get sponsors and shit and would be soooo much better if only they had more money... ._.

2014-11-24 03:33

31 replies

they should just get in mixed teams

2014-11-24 03:31

6 replies

there is a girl playing for xile (i think) and she is playing rly good. i think girls could be stronger if they play with a mixed team.

2014-11-24 05:38

5 replies

Yeah like, why don't they just join random teams generally, why "only female" teams?

2014-11-24 16:25

4 replies

Because most guys think females suck in csgo, so they prefer other guys.

2014-11-24 17:38

2 replies

In WoW the hardcore guilds would often have a No Girls-policy because of drama. Not because they'd bring it but because there's always some guys who's gonna hit on her and fuck shit. What you said probably applies as well though.

2014-11-24 18:22

1 reply

ye kinda the same shit.

2014-11-24 18:45

because that could often lead to personal trouble

2014-11-24 18:23

Exactly what I was thinking... want equality? I wasn't even aware its not there, what exactly is stopping them from going through an online qualifier like everyone else? Has any of them been denied the option to qualify to a tournament that male teams were allowed? And before I get jumped :), yes I am aware how people react in pubs when they see female players, and thats an issue bigger than just gaming. What exactly was the point of this "Documentary"?

2014-11-24 03:58

7 replies

+1000000000000000 this documentary has no point

2014-11-24 05:29

2 replies

Yeah.. Like if they don't want to participate in female only tournaments what's stopping them? I've never seen in any of the rules for "male tournaments" where it says "Must be male to attend". It's almost like the real difference between male and female tournaments is Pro & Semipro. Right now there are no true professional female CS players, they are all semipros at best. Also, what's stopping females from joining a male team to compete at the top? Missharvy (although I wouldn't consider her pro) had the opportunity to play for a male invite team in NA.

2014-11-24 07:12

1 reply

actually xile has a female in there team :) they did attend "RGN Summer's End Tournament" but they are not at the level that they need to be to attend Majors. I doubt they would even pass qualifiers but I get what you are saying. proof link: cevo.com/event/rgn-csgo/roster/54148/

2014-11-24 08:26

+1 organizers give them female only tournaments so they can actually compete... I dont think dreamhack is going to invite a female team because they are female, why the fuck wont they go through the online qualifier

2014-11-24 07:17

1 reply

They simply cant qualify because they are simply to Bad. Thats it.

2014-11-24 15:03

+1337 mate

2014-11-24 08:21

Spot on my boyyyy

2014-11-24 15:47

I lol'd, there is a difference between good sponsor deals and bad sponsor deals. If you see organization with a lot of sponsors and the organization isn't really that big at all, you can assume it's only a few products involved, and not a lot of money.

2014-11-24 04:28

13 replies

more so the point he is making is that female teams get more perks than a lot of male semi elite teams when they are no where near the same level of skill. Because of this I fail to see this 'equality' they are not banned from taking part in any tournaments and even have a few of their own that males cannot attend. The only big issue is the way they are treated by a select few young immature nerds.

2014-11-24 06:10

10 replies

Yes, the true difference between the tournaments isn't the gender, its the quality of play. "male tournaments" (which are actually open to anyone???) Are for professionals; "female tournaments" (that the stronger male teams cannot attend & steal easy prize money) are for semi pro women. I'm sure if there was a female player with the talent of shoxie or kennyS she would have no issues making it onto a top "male" team. Also, I would say it's not the way they are treated by a select few nerds, but in fact, most nerds.

2014-11-24 07:17

There is quite a big difference though. Semi-pro teams normally doesn't have anything to offer in return, such as good social medias stats or the chance to win a major. If you invest in a semi-pro team you normally don't get your money back unless they are a personality online. Semi-pro teams can get sponsors, but they need to know how things work, and that's why they usually go by an organization because they are supposed to have people who do it for the team. It's more marketing value in female teams, but companies I have talked to doesn't really care at all for any female team.

2014-11-24 08:20

2 replies

Yeah I know why they do it, and i would do the same, I would take a female team over a male semi elite team any day if i ran an organisation. I completely understand the why but I was more so just outlining the fact that female gamers actually have it pretty good due to getting some perks over teams that have a far higher skill ceiling.

2014-11-24 09:34

1 reply

I wouldn't take a female team. It's only worth taking a male top15 team into an organization. If you run a low budget a female team would be the best marketing wise, but again you could just use the same money to sponsor a broadcaster and recieve the same marketing. "fesports" as they call it, everyone has their own opinion about it, personally I think they shouldn't have their own leagues etc. EDIT: Also forgot to throw in that some female players who call themselves professional is pretty much a joke, but again. Everyone has their own opinion on what the definiton of a professional player is.

2014-11-24 11:27

Feminist tend to choose what is sexist and what is not

2014-11-24 08:33

5 replies

This is so stupid. You have your own opinion and however you decide to use it is your own decision.

2014-11-24 12:01

4 replies

sorry, I meant "some feminist". I know there are alot of good feminist out there. but it is true that "alot" of them have double standards regarding anything sexist. IRL proof: youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ

2014-11-24 13:14

3 replies

The Amazing Asshole is anecdotal evidence at best.

2014-11-25 02:38

2 replies

I would like to hear your explanation on why the evidence is anecdotal at best, if you may.

2014-11-25 09:42

Your post is proof you didn't watch two seconds of the video since he manages to explain it's about a show within that time. Sigh... Why even try with feminists like you, you're not gonna listen to a single word. You prove yourselves again and again just ignoring evidence and arguments.

2014-11-27 15:11

Yes, I know there's good and bad sponsors. There's also teams with NO sponsors that have reached higher than any female team ever. Getting nothing yet reaching for the top. Why do people assume that money is the reason for difference in skill like in this docu? It just makes them seem less honest about what they do.

2014-11-24 15:08

1 reply

If they have no sponsors, they have no idea what they are doing when it comes to getting sponsors.

2014-11-24 16:13

2014-11-24 08:36

+1 just..

2014-11-24 10:56

I actually get much more motivated and thrilled with this video, because they're underdogs in so many reasons (unfortunately) and this kinda represents the people who cannot attend to LANS because of the skill or team issues imo... People even worst than them in the case of sponsors (and if you want to skins aswell, which is redundant too). Come on who doesn't love Rey Mysterio because of that? Also I think that this material has quality (has a documentary) but still too short I think, would be lovely in some festivals about documentaries and all that stuff, put the people much more aware of the problems in society (in all cases, for instance in this case an e-sports scene, and CS which everyone at least one time heard about it...), and also a good, fresh vision with a different perspective... This kind of stuff has a lot of potential!

2014-11-24 12:06

There's probably a reason why Bad Monkey got absolutely wrecked against male teams

2014-11-24 03:22

1 reply

can confirm

2014-12-09 16:31

2014-11-24 03:23

Too busy worrying about whose going on vacation

2014-11-24 03:24

"Hopefully the movie will cause more debate around this issue because I think it's a problem for the duture of e-sports that the scene is so male-dominated." Scene is male-dominated simply because they're much better. /thread

2014-11-24 03:24

28 replies

exactly.

2014-11-24 03:25

The scene is male-dominated simply because more males play video games thus, a higher chance of a male becoming a top professional. China has many good athletes because it has such a high population compared to other countries and obviously there is a higher chance of someone being a good athlete. This is the same principal as video games.

2014-11-24 03:42

25 replies

No... The population doesn't matter, if there was 1 girl playing CS and she played more than everyone else she could very well become the best... What you said was simply wrong. And I frankly don't care for female e-sports teams because none of them are serious. I hope the male domination of the scene continues purely because females will never take it as serious as the males.

2014-11-24 04:12

24 replies

worst logic ive ever heard, compare china to your country for example. Your country could have 10 talented players, but china could have 100 players with the same talent due to their high population. The same thing apply to male and female.

2014-11-24 04:39

23 replies

Nope, it doesn't matter, you could have 100 000 000 000 000 girls play CS (if the population was that high) and 99.9% of them could suck. Population doesn't matter. If it did then China would be the best in the world, followed by India and then the U.S. Population doesn't correlate to skill. Skill is purely a random variable that cannot be accounted for. So... You're wrong. Enjoy crying about this :)

2014-11-24 05:05

22 replies

its incredible how simple this is but you still dont get it. "If it did then China would be the best in the world, followed by India and then the U.S" you miss 1 important point here, how many people of these countries actually touch cs:go in the whole population? If everyone in the world play cs:go then this totally apply. Im using the countries example to compare to female-male. Let's say there are 100 male players and only 25 female players in cs:go. All playing hard, what sides do you think will have a high chance of having more talented players? And also, if theres 1 incredibly good female players out of 25 players. How many male players do you think could be equally good or even better out of 100 players? Not sure if you can get it this time, but im done here though.

2014-11-24 05:16

15 replies

Your English is so poor I really don't think I could understand you if I tried. I'm just going to say that your post is cancerous and pointless. Purely because your English is a solid 2/10. So if you're trying to make a point, I can't understand it, due to your poor English. Please learn proper English before trying to win an argument. THANK YOU :) And from what I read you only validated my point, which is that population has no correlation to skill. Skill is purely random and dependent on a person, their work ethic, reaction times etc, etc. So if you're trying to make a point, you've only validated mine and you're wrong. LEL.

2014-11-24 05:20

14 replies

His English is fine, its your interpretation that needs work buddy. He was always referring to the population of a given sport or task, not the country you fool.

2014-11-24 06:29

8 replies

" All playing hard, what sides do you think will have a high chance of having more talented players?" Is not fine English... Do you have a mental disorder? Or are you just beyond a level of retardation that I can't fathom? I hope you have a VACation soon bro-dawg. You're a fine insult to the Australian population.

2014-11-24 08:04

7 replies

Whats wrong with you?

2014-11-24 09:22

2 replies

You live in Sweden, Sweden is a 6 letter word. 6/2 = 3. You have the letter "a" in your name 3 times. A triangle has 3 sides, Illuminati confirmed.

2014-11-24 09:27

1 reply

lol

2014-11-24 16:04

If you can understand what an ESL person is trying to say then his English is fine. From your posts and lack of understanding you are the one that is challenged my friend.

2014-11-24 09:43

3 replies

You sound like you did ESL as your main English subject in school. Seems you never wanted to attend the "How To Be Strayan'" Classes either. Poor LAD, one day you won't insult Australia through your existence. Rocketry has 8 letters. Australia has 9 letters. 9-8 = 1. You are the #1 retard. ENJOY! :)

2014-11-24 09:54

1 reply

You really do hate your life, don't you ? "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded" - I hope you can relate to that quote.

2014-11-24 21:51

2014-11-24 11:59

He's saying that out a large group of people the chances of players being on a pro level is much higher than from a small group of people. If every person on earth would play as much CS as for example GeT_RiGhT, would he still be considered one of the best in the world? No that is extremely unlikely

2014-11-24 06:36

1 reply

Nope, that's not what he's saying.

2014-11-24 08:01

Your english stronk but you wronk

2014-11-24 07:18

His English is fine and readable.. good troll/10

2014-11-24 14:42

What a dickhead.

2014-12-09 22:31

You just don't seem to get this point. In many other sports as well females are not in the same level as males. And the biggest reason to this is that there are so much fewer female players. Eventually that means that they are not as good even though there might be potential individuals. If we compare gaming to a comparable sport like billiards, both have similar characteristics that don't require muscle fitness/strength that would undeniably give advantage to men. Still both have leagues and championships for men and women separately. Fact is that there are too few woman players playing those games and it leads to skill level difference overall.

2014-11-24 09:29

3 replies

Let me get this... Finland is a country, the word country has 7 letters. Finland has 7 letters. Your name: TheDoomi, has 8 letters. 8-7 = 1. 1 is 2 places from 3, 2+1 = 3. A triangle has 3 sides. Illuminati confirmed. :O

2014-11-24 09:34

2 replies

Nope, but it's confirmed that you're a jackass.

2014-11-24 12:06

1 reply

My god, I think I heard that in like 5th grade. My feelings, they hert so much QQ. Kappa

2014-11-24 12:34

He is saying that if you have a million people spending the same time on a task from one country, vs a single person in another country that spends an equal amount of time, and is doing the exact same thing, then the odds of having the best person in the group with one million people is higher.

2014-11-24 14:18

1 reply

I have no idea how you got that from what he said. But I thank you, at least the Danish can speak proper English. Thank you. Even so, I'm pretty sure i'd rather some godlike player that can kill 5 very skilled players with ease, over 5 skilled players. Sorry kids, but one guy could rek 5 kids EZ.

2014-11-24 15:09

that's my boy

2014-11-24 12:20

Wat...

2014-11-24 03:25

Smithzz is all in for equality.

2014-11-24 03:26

3 replies

LOL

2014-11-24 03:49

Gina top #1 Female player Kappa?

2014-11-24 04:19

You win

2014-11-24 04:39

Is it a problem in football that the scene is so male-dominated? lol

2014-11-24 03:26

13 replies

This.

2014-11-24 03:45

Yo, we need equal rights. please let me be in a separate room from the guys because they are stinky.

2014-11-24 03:52

maybe you should help the female team with some personal chea- I mean secrets.

2014-11-24 03:53

1 reply

#EmilioIsFromSweden, so Sweden is a bunch of cheaters according to your logic. AmIRite? Or maybe Flusha learnt from Emilio? Man Sweden may soon have more Vacations. Who knows :S

2014-11-24 09:38

2014-11-24 04:07

1 reply

+7-1

2014-11-24 09:31

Sure, super heavyweight boxing scene is so male-dominated too :D

2014-11-24 04:30

Are you sure about that I know here in America "football" is for ladies.

2014-11-24 04:51

2 replies

We're talking about the football where you actually spend 90+ minutes kicking a ball with your feet, not the one where you carry a egg-shaped object with your hands.

2014-11-24 05:43

So full of crap, soccer is for sure as played by guys as it is by girls.

2014-11-24 09:18

prepare for vacation

2014-11-24 04:51

You. I like you

2014-11-24 12:20

It is according to a lot of people. In Sweden they have articles about that at least once a year when Swedens male troop doesn't make it to the World Cup but the female troop does. I don't agree with it but a lot of people do.

2014-11-24 18:30

2014-11-24 03:27

In eSport, making a scene for female only is the exact contrary of equality.

2014-11-24 03:27

5 replies

I might missunderstand your post, but should equality mean that male and female teams play the same tournament?

2014-11-24 03:40

4 replies

Well, as long as we consider both men and women equals, then there should not be female-restricted tournament, or male-restricted tournament (note that the second case does not exist, event the CS:GO majors qualifs were opened to women). So yeah, it means Male and Female teams should not be separate.

2014-11-24 03:47

3 replies

In that case you wont see many female teams lol, since they will get rekt by the male teams in qualifiers. And then the female scene will be even worse because they wont have lan experience. But hey I'm all for combining the scenes just so people can see what a disaster it is and stop their crying.

2014-11-24 03:57

Aha, then i fully agree with you :)

2014-11-24 04:39

I agree :D, If there were only one tournament it would be equal. Actually now it is not equal. Because females aren't as skilled as male then it is relatively easier to get on a female tournament than "male" tournament. If you are male you are less likely to compete on a major tournament. So why there is female tournament if they want total equality.

2014-11-24 09:35

What would you rather watch NBA or WNBA /thread

2014-11-24 03:27

2 replies

LFL /thread

2014-11-24 04:03

no, but I want to watch women volleyball and women handball

2014-11-24 07:24

I really dislike that they separate it so hard and that there is not a single woman in any pro team. There must be at least one that is good enough. Its the same thing with the anti cheat on lans the organisations that host this events just try to save money I guess. ...not sure where they save money exactly but they probably do.

2014-11-24 03:27

8 replies

Feel free to reply when you can find one woman player which is better than one of the players in the top male teams.

2014-11-24 03:32

6 replies

I can't judge their skill, based on some matches that get played here and there, but viewer count is an important thing and if you look at twitch for example grills make a good job at that part. And to not reduce them to an object, I think there are capable to make good plays especially their mind reading techniques are notorious.

2014-11-24 03:55

2 replies

lol did u just say that having alot of twitch followers means a girl is good at cs? The ONLY reason girls have twitch followers is bc so many sweaty nerds are fapping to them, and hoping that the girl might show a boob at some point. No1 gives a shit about female cs except other females...

2014-11-24 04:02

1 reply

10/10 would r8 again

2014-11-24 04:17

It's possible in other sports. Look at Scarlett in Starcraft.

2014-11-24 14:19

2 replies

You do know that Scarlett is a transgender, right? So, technically... you know.

2014-12-10 13:30

1 reply

I knew that yes, but since she is born with a female brain and people think of her as female, I don't see how that matters. All the players agree about it as well.

2014-12-10 13:37

a woman has all the possibilities a man has in terms of becoming pro. its just the social norm that wont accept a "mom & dad i dont want to work, i want to earn money playing a computer game" (atleast in cs). Theoretically if you give a female team which is, in terms of skill, good enough to compete against semipro teams (flipside, highgrade or whatever they are called now etc) a "chance" to ghave something similar to the titan house where they practice daily and if not practicing play on their own, they could compete with males. It hasnt happenend so far as the stereotypes for woman are still there , while man are more open on what they could possibly do with their life.

2014-11-24 18:40

If grills would get good the scene wouldn't be so dominated by males. Stop blaming my penis

2014-11-24 03:29

There are lots of really, really good players who aren't dudes. But there just plain more dudes and thus more dudes who will be potentially really, really good. If you took the 5 outright best female players and stuck them together, I'm sure they'd wreck shit. But as it stands, there are 5-10 brilliant female players on like 12 different teams. It's hard to carry when the teams you're going up against contain players who are capable of carrying their own team on their good days, too. I've seen grills on co-ed teams thrive, too. The split between male and female feels like it's more related to the teams blowing dick than the individual players not being up to snuff at the very far fight of each gender's bell curve.

2014-11-24 03:29

13 replies

And why should women be limited to women-only teams ? Don't forget that's a choice they made.

2014-11-24 03:32

1 reply

I think they said in the doku, it was asked for by the sponsors.

2014-11-24 04:01

Sorry mate, but no. Top 5 women wouldn't rek anyone of the top 10 teams.

2014-11-24 03:34

9 replies

They'd do better than your team. They'd do better than a lot of teams. Most of what I see amongst all girls teams since they started being formed in 2002 was one good player and four dead weights.

2014-11-24 04:16

8 replies

How is that relevant? I don't remember myself playing for a top 10 team, do you? Didn't think so, hence your argument is invalid. Considering there's hundreds of teams, yeah of course top 5 women would be better than lots of them but not the top 10 teams in the world.

2014-11-24 04:20

5 replies

We have a good dozen teams outside of the top 10 that are composed exactly like most top female teams, with one standout and four okay players. Lumping all of the talent together does get results, even if it doesn't prove to be sustainable long term.

2014-11-24 04:21

4 replies

Then why aren't they even trying to qualify for actual LAN events, playing local LANs, or even competing in online leagues?

2014-11-24 07:04

3 replies

Why isn't who doing what?

2014-11-24 07:12

2 replies

Why aren't these "best female players" forming teams to compete in actual tournaments then?

2014-11-24 22:00

1 reply

Same issues as NA, Finland, Spain and other smaller groups of talented players. They all think the other ones in their group suck. Thus each good player ends up on their own shitty team and goes no where.

2014-11-24 22:58

I went out in the quaterfinals of the DHW qualifying, so out team is not super. But good enough for the Proff scene, and in a pracc vs one of the best french. Women team. And won 21-9 (And if you're going to comment the score, proffesional pracs go full 30 rounds, 15 T, 15 CT.) And this proves that they should change what they're doing very quickly. If they are eve serious in this sport. I was like goingup against 2 Legendary eagles, and 3 double aks. A huge difference.

2014-11-24 04:45

ive played against sk.ladies/ubiwahtever and theyre barely a main level team

2014-11-25 08:11

oh man, I wish I was this delusional to.

2014-11-24 03:55

L.K.S! :D

2014-11-24 03:30

4 replies

ugly

2014-11-24 07:20

3 replies

2014-11-24 07:20

1 reply

ok :(

2014-11-24 07:22

Kappa

2014-11-24 20:33

inb4 girls start cheating and rek everyone

2014-11-24 03:31

2 replies

inb4 males stop cheating and get rekt by grills

2014-11-24 03:34

Or entire NiP does a genderchange and renames to Grills in Pyjamis<3 and go on an 87-0 streak.

2014-11-24 03:34

I watched this a few days ago, it's terrible. Even the subtitles are bad, at one point it says "DEL".

2014-11-24 03:35

The main problem with that gender equality in esport is that the problem is not the mentality. Except a few idiots, i suppose nobody is against the idea of seeing a woman join a top team and participate in a major as long as the has the skill for it right ? No, the only problem is that there are actually no women who have the skill, and the only reason for that is none of them put investement into it, or at least not enought to reach top level. It's as easy as that. Hopefully, if I'm not mistaken, we have an exemple of a woman who made it in eSport : in the Versus Fighting scene, Kayane is one of the best, and still a woman ...

2014-11-24 03:42

Female only leagues aren't there to keep women from playing with men. They're there to keep men from playing with women. Because the moment you try to mix the genders in e-sports, is the moment there suddenly becomes no such thing as a female "professional" counter strike player. That isn't bigotry, that's just the reality of the situation.

2014-11-24 03:44

1 reply

It's atually because female players isn't on the same level. It's been tried and Failed.

2014-11-24 04:46

I'll gladly take some VACation in Sweden if Lizette looks for a french boyfriend. I promess I'll never cheat though.

2014-11-24 03:49

1 reply

2014-11-24 03:51

where is my chicks

2014-11-24 03:51

What is this feminisme bullcraps Kappa - nah would be nice to see more female pro players, and tournaments, let them play at the big events if they can go through the qualifiers they are good enough yea?

2014-11-24 03:51

God this feminists entitlement is disgusting. The scene is male-dominated because most girls suck at this, simple as that, they are welcome to make a team themselves and win to males, that has been tried before, dunno in CS but it was in LoL and the difference between top males and females is just too great.

2014-11-24 03:52

2 replies

+1 They have equality already, they can play against male teams right now in most tournaments. They just never do because they'll get rekt. And when they play against eachother it's like watching silvers play. Simply they are bad at the game, they CAN be good, but they all sadly suck right now.

2014-11-24 04:15

+1 the only thing where gender shouldn't matter at all, men are still better?

2014-11-24 07:56

Man the captions don't really do what Anders said justice. Makes me wonder how well they did with translating the other languages.

2014-11-24 03:52

nice documentary!

2014-11-24 03:56

This thread is pretty much showing why female tournaments are needed. Women get so much shit online and when playing games that the amount who want to actually stick through it is not enough. Then those who DO stick around and want to get better can't get into any good teams because "They're girls, they're shit" so they can't improve enough to get to the top teams. Then people complain about women not being good enough. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

2014-11-24 04:01

6 replies

Female tournaments would be needed if they would have equal viewership for sponsors and fans, it's not possible to do because females doesn't play game as much like males and like males, not even counting player base lol.

2014-11-24 04:06

1 reply

It's about getting more women to play the game and in particular to stick at it to get to the highest levels. Just when people give them endless amounts of shit for doing it, it is simply not worth it. So no, that's not why they would be needed EVEN FUCKING SLIGHTLY.

2014-11-24 07:06

I've been insulted worse in random matchmaking games.

2014-11-24 06:58

3 replies

Oh yeah mate, obviously the person who has had the MOST insults in the history of the internet is you in a random matchmaking game. No possibility that others might get more abuse, more consistently and more personally.

2014-11-24 07:07

2 replies

TBH it's typical gaming, getting flamed every game too, but i don't whine about it. It's part of the community which is truely annoying but hey idiots are everywhere. The sexist thing oh dear, well Internet, nothing more to say.

2014-11-24 11:03

Dude, almost every game there's atleast ONE of the teams who has a dick constantly whining and insulting people. They are just loud idiots. They ARE bad though, right now. Otherwise they would've qualified like the rest of them or there'd be one at least making the qualifier finals. Not saying they CAN'T improve, not many in this thread are saying that. Every single other player has been playing in shit teams but performed well in some tournament before they got invited to a good team/the entire team started getting better. I don't think there's many if any examples of people who have never even entered a tournament qualifier who have then been invited to a top team. I don't understand why you would invite someone you're not even friends with or play with unless they have proven themselves already.

2014-11-24 18:47

Pls make "equal gaming" for bad players, it's disgusting that we don't have equal tournaments for suckers, whole scene is dominated by good cheaters. #BADINISM4GO

2014-11-24 04:03

2 replies

Lmao nice

2014-11-24 05:12

equal gaming for DMGs. There are so many of us :'(

2014-12-09 08:44

sjw video gaming the documentary??

2014-11-24 04:04

To whoever might read this. The message they are trying to convey with the video is the exact opposite of what is currently happening in the world of snooker. Females are vying for a professional league in which they could contest amongst themselves for money and subsequently make a living off it. Problem lies within the simple fact: predominantly a male sport (developed for soldiers stationed in India waaaay back in the day), it took a lot of time to reach a level where females would start to become more noticeable. That is to be said, even with the amount of work they put in they are at a disadvantage and even the best (as of yet) have it hard to contest with the top of the crop (eg. issues with female body, etc.) Therefore, in order to have a level ground with the male community, the only way to solve the problem is to have a female-specific league, in case they want to go professional and make a living off it. I think e-sports should not jump the wagon and start off slowly. Have bigger prizepools for female leagues, day-to-day streams, streamed HLTV coverage, etc. Make it possible to sustain some sort of income. However, they should also be invited to participate in tourneys and/or qualifiers in the main scene. It should be a gradual growth, forced growth won't help neither community.

2014-11-24 04:10

1 reply

I thought about snooker/pool as well because both have similar characteristics: no requirements for strength/fitness. Basically there should be no difference between men and women but the number of players makes the difference. Perhaps in the future some teams might be mixed but is there any sport like that?

2014-11-24 09:56

equal rights, equal fights I'd smack those girls

2014-11-24 04:14

testosterone or estrogen, hmmmmm female cs teams just sit in spawn and argue dont they?

2014-11-24 04:23

lol

2014-11-24 04:24

The reason why it is separate is because when the top female teams go against a shitty male team they get destroyed, once they can compete with teams like LC or CW then they could make it into a big event

2014-11-24 04:36

solution: all female teams boycott the female only tournaments "forced" upon organizers by sponsors and play in the open qualifiers for the main tournaments

2014-11-24 04:38

Before i used to think, why not female and male have one tournament and get two female teams invited. But then i played against one of the best female teams out there in matchmaking they were full five they are so bad that im pretty sure that none of them can ever play on majors or high level tournaments and shouldn't even be invited. I'm not a sexist or anything, if there is a team that is on the same level as the lowest team in DHW im all for inviting them for marketing reasons. But at this level, i don't think any of them can compete even against the indian teams.

2014-11-24 04:42

12:26 snax sighting

2014-11-24 04:46

What an amazing way to try and get laid though.

2014-11-24 04:52

The truth is male teams, especially the Pro level male teams are way stronger than the female teams. Female teams need to improve, and in everything the best way to improve is to play vs the best, if you could get better scrims vs good teams constantly that would be a good way for you to really step up your game. If some teams reach a level where they can go equal or at least UPSET pro male teams I think that day would be big for the female scene, but really, not saying that you are bad it's really not the same level atm... Which makes it harder to recognize you, if you want equality get equal in skill level and it's done, it's really only up to you to prove that.

2014-11-24 04:56

If your issue is not being able to play on the main stage like the "male" teams, then join the main tournament; no one is stopping you. If you have a problem with the female tournament prize pot being lower than the main tournament, then join the main tournament; (again) no one is stopping you. There is the growing misconception that CS is divided by gender. Tournaments are not divided by male and female, and they have never been. In fact, females are given the privilege to choose which of the two tournaments they would rather participate in (double-standard? I think so). Guess which option of the two is traditionally favored... The documentary claims they want equality, claims they want to compete with everyone else just like everyone else, yet these female players choose to separate themselves from the scene by playing on female teams in female tournaments over open tournaments/leagues. For what reasons? One excuse is that female players and teams need a sanctuary that keeps them away from harassment and sexist behavior, yet internet prejudices have no boundaries regarding race, sex, skill, or sexual orientation. Others claim that hosting these female tournaments are to increase the female demographic of the game. Whether the game is 90% male or 10% female, or 50% male and 50% female, balanced demographics does not necessarily mean equality or lead to equal treatment because you are trying to increase the # of females for its sake rather than solving the real issues at hand. Stats are just a number, the people themselves (male & especially female) are the problem here. Since 2003, ESWC has been hosting female tournaments, and in those 11 years, nothing has changed. Viewers still see several of the same faces STILL competing in these tournaments year after year, and the vast majority of female players begin and end their career in these tournaments. When will it ever lead to integration? Female tournaments are not the answer, and it is the female players attitudes that must change. They are the ones that decide whether they want to play in the same leagues and tournaments as everyone else, and they are the ones that decide how much effort they truly want to invest in the game; (again) no one is stopping them. Why is the legitimacy of female esports always being questioned? It's because female tournaments employ gender, rather than skill, as a prerequisite for participation. When you bar entry to males in a male-dominated competitive scene, the legitimacy of competition within the female scene has a right to be questioned (just as an amateur league would, or even a local tournament simply because they do not feature the top-ranked competitors). Until players within the female scene prove otherwise, their skill (just like any player in the scene who is new or has yet to prove themselves) will always be questioned. There also seems to be a growing trend that closely resembles affirmative action, and it involves inviting female teams to play in tournaments of high stature (such as Hitbox Arena Championship and Fragbite Masters), rather than letting them qualify on their own accord. Do not buy into whatever “altruistic” reasons the tournament organizers use to justify this action (e.g. to integrate the “male” and female scene)—it’s all a marketing ploy. Why should it take an invite to get a female team competing against other non-female teams in leagues and tournaments? It shouldn't. The female players themselves are responsible for what tournaments/leagues they choose to sign up or qualify for, and if they deserve a spot or a title, they will earn it just like any other team would and has done in the past. This only serves as a slap in the face to other teams who have put in the effort and would have qualified over the invited female teams, but weren’t simply because they were male. I'll end with this, If you are a female player that is looking for a pat on the back for your efforts (despite not being able to compete among the best), then female tournaments are for you. If your only goal is to have fun and play with other girls, then by all means have fun. However, do not expect any real respect in the competitive scene because you are segregating yourself from the main competitive community. If you are a female player that takes criticism and failure appropriately, will continue to be motivated to play in open leagues/tournaments to gain the necessary experiences (despite not winning, or receiving prize money initially because your rather not take the easy route and exploit your gender), and genuinely wants to be the best among the best at all costs, then carry on in your efforts, because that attitude will make you a better player than any female tournament could ever produce.

2014-11-24 05:08

44 replies

Well said

2014-11-24 05:18

very insightful

2014-11-24 05:20

I was initially tempted to say something about a wall of text, but I'm glad I didn't and instead just read through. A very accurate and well written summary of the situation and its flaws. Much appreciated.

2014-11-24 05:32

this guy, he gets it

2014-11-24 05:38

4 replies

2014-11-24 06:02

Girl which played in a mix with some guys under the RGN summer tournament that they won , + KDA every game , shes very good.

2014-11-25 06:51

She's a female. Arguably the best in NA, and she is playing on a CEVO-P team currently and not one of the all female teams from NA.

2014-12-09 08:48

1 reply

this

2014-12-09 22:45

Well said from one of the few female gamers with a brain.

2014-11-24 05:54

QFT, I cringed at the topic of this documentary, nice to see someone eloquently summed up the reasons why.

2014-11-24 06:06

I've never been so impressed by anyone on this site. Respect!

2014-11-24 06:09

+1 someone gets it

2014-11-24 06:39

^this

2014-11-24 06:47

Respectfully, I do not agree with the most part of your post :) Because that would only happen in a perfect world. You are forgetting A LOT of aspects that's causing all the effects that you're "complaining" about. I could argue with you most of your points, but I think its pointless.. Whatever we say it doesn't matter, and what I mean is that the problem here is that most people want the change NOW. That's impossible. You said about eswc hosting the tournaments all these years and there's been no change. Well of course there hasnt. eSports wasn't even close to how big it is nowadays. I think we can agree that these past 3/4 years is when the rising of eSports is happening (talking about general eSports, ofc much less time for CSGO), even tho I know there was a time where CS was huge, it's still nowhere near where other eSports are right now. What I wanted to say with all this is that in my opinion there won't be any full female integration in eSports with males until the eSports are truly big, (much bigger than now), and really stablished and integrated in our society. So whatever we say, whatever you think the problem is and what girls should do, is wrong. Me, you or that other girl can try as hard as she wants, and do what everyone thinks is the right thing to do to make everything work, and it will fail. Why? Because is not the right time yet. Despite what you might think, its still too soon for that. But with time it'll be alright, it'll improve and we'll see eSports with males and females competing next to each other, first we all have to keep growing as a community, with all the implications and aspects you left out of your thoughts. That's just my opinion tho. As valid as yours! Hopefully time will tell. P.S sorry if my english was not good enough! XD

2014-11-24 07:23

14 replies

I'm not being sarcastic, but from i'm gathering, you're saying that even if a girl were one of the top gamers in the world she still wouldn't be able to play on a top tier team because she's a girl?

2014-11-24 07:45

3 replies

That's pretty much what I'm gathering as well and if that's what it is then it's false.

2014-11-24 07:52

1 reply

Just her opinion... as "valid" as any!

2014-12-09 20:31

I truly think she believes that...

2014-11-24 08:45

I don't really understand what you are trying to say or how it is relevant or disagreeing with his post. :/ You just rambled on and didn't elaborate on anything at all. IE, "So whatever we say, whatever you think the problem is and what girls should do, is wrong." Explain? Examples?

2014-11-24 09:25

You say you will fail, and because you believe it, you've already condemned yourself. You have no right to speak for me though (or anyone else for that matter); like everyone, I will come across failure, but I will continue climbing the ranks in the NA scene whether it is the "right time" or not. If you want change, you seek it out and you do not wait passively for it to happen. Sure integration will take time, even years, to accomplish (who knows if it will ever happen tbh). While that is an issue, it isn't the one that concerns me the most. The issue here is that female teams/players traditionally do not take open tournaments and leagues seriously enough. There is no monolithic, misogynistic force that is preventing female teams/players from being joining or being successful in an open tournament or league. If the team gets the results necessary and has a good record (or even wins the division), no league will deny them the right into a higher division, nor will results be overturned simply because they are female—what is stopping these teams then? Are they not skilled enough to compete with them? Do they not want it hard enough? Did they buy into the idea that they need to play in a female tournament to actually win something in the game? Players and teams are responsible for the success of their own efforts. If a female team or player wants to compete against the top teams or in more prestigious leagues, they have to earn it first (like any other player) before they deserve it. Instead, female players continue to segregate themselves in these separate competitions and pretend to be the victim when they are a victim of their own decisions. Many females will fail, just as many men have failed before in their efforts to get to the top. This shouldn't be discouraging, but rather a challenge. It seems, however, that many are actually discouraged from this, and people have started to claim that females have to be bribed with sponsors or special tournaments so they can keep playing the game and the scene can “grow” (sounds like a sustainable plan...). Numbers mean nothing when its the mentality of most female players that needs to be changed. You said it yourself that you do not believe, and that’s exactly what is wrong with the female scene.

2014-11-24 10:18

2 replies

Thx for sharing

2014-11-24 17:26

I'm kinda a sapiosexual and your argumentative skills are arousing. LOL. Fantastic posts. Sounds like you're currently playing in NA leagues. Hope to see you make it to ESEA/CEVO lan finals, and I guess now MLG, too.

2014-12-10 21:31

or youre just....bad???

2014-11-24 11:56

play in the main tourny with everyone else and we might respect you also only one team can win a tourny so ofcourse you might fail.... jesus this is why no one takes you seriously

2014-11-25 08:20

why do girls have to fail? look at masq, she's on a CEVO-Professional team the time to be a pro gamer is RIGHT NOW

2014-12-09 14:56

What you hope for is not equality, but instead additional privileges(e.g. losing to male teams, but still receiving a win). That's how silly you sound. Sickening.

2014-12-09 17:02

If a female joins a team, works hard, becomes the best, and wins a major, they will receive their prize money along with the boys. The game is 100% the same regardless of gender. Claiming it is not the "right time" is an excuse and a crutch. You have just as much of a chance of going places in this game as I or any other male does if you put in the time and work. If there are teams out there that would not pick up a player that puts up real results based on gender, then they will lose to teams that will. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

2014-12-09 21:18

sure , you are embarrasing yourself. learn what equal gaming means , i dont care about girls/boys i just want people who can hit his shots in my team , thats all.

2014-12-10 08:49

sums it up pretty much

2014-11-24 08:24

Best HLTV post 2k14, that's all I got to say! Kudos!

2014-11-24 08:36

1 reply

2014-11-24 11:55

I agree with most of what you written. Good post.

2014-11-24 09:59

Nice thesis, not completely true tho. But the time spent on writing is appreciated :)

2014-11-24 10:19

I wanted to write something almost exactly the same as this and you saved me the trouble. +1 What i will add though is that this is a terribly made film. i'm actually pretty sure they showed random frags from a MM and tried to make it seem like it was that game they played on D2. The Audio was clipping and at all different levels and the Subtitles and Text in general looks awful....

2014-11-24 17:17

+1 dude

2014-12-09 10:37

1 reply

I arent think that.

2014-12-10 05:10

amen. One of the best comments I've ever read on hltv.

2014-12-09 12:10

+juan

2014-12-09 13:03

Dat post.

2014-12-09 14:01

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

2014-12-09 17:49

Perfectly said. Incase anyone is wondering, Masq is the best female player in NA and likely the world for CS:GO.

2014-12-09 19:38

+1 Really insightful, and the straight up truth, too bad some females will still disagree even thought its plain reality

2014-12-09 23:21

Aaaaaaaaand thats why you are arguably one of the best female players in the world right now. You get it.

2014-12-10 07:32

Amen

2015-02-05 00:23

Pretty cool to receive some insight and a view of perspective straight from a female CS:GO team. However, I believe there aren't female gamers in the top tier scene due to the fact that there simply aren't any females with the skill required. It's not about the genders, it's about the skill.

2014-11-24 05:16

I for one thought it was a really good doco :)

2014-11-24 05:34

1 reply

yeah m2, enjoyed it.

2014-11-24 05:37

play against male teams if you want to be their equal

2014-11-24 05:52

feminazis don't want equality, guys. they just want to put men down. equality would be girls playing against boys and we all know how that would turn out, there would be 0 professional female teams. I support equality, I hate feminism.

2014-11-24 06:14

2 replies

2014-11-24 06:36

+1 equality =/= feminism

2014-11-24 13:21

Full support for female players. But i'm in shock, i'm fairly certain one of the players in the video stated that they needed these tournaments otherwise they would not be able to travel and compete. To me that is an absolute slap in the face to the thousands that are trying to get to tournaments like that, players who deticated way more time and effort in reaching that level. When you reach a mountain on your path, you either climb it and achieve it, or stay put at your current level, you do not complain about having to climb it, or that you cannot reach the other side. Before this video i had not formulated an opinion on female only tournaments, but the footage i just saw made me take a stance of not wanting them. Your gender, race, height, weight, religion, is not a handicap for an esport, Climb the mountain, don't complain about it.

2014-11-24 06:32

next copenhagen games 250k for female tournament confirmed.

2014-11-24 06:38

2 replies

KQLY will probably dress up as a girl to continue his career if thats the case.

2014-11-24 06:42

1 reply

KQLA incoming

2014-11-24 12:44

lmao its fucking easy to beat some of the top female teams... just pick smoe supreme-dmg nonamers to play with you srsly they are fucking bad

2014-11-24 06:41

1 reply

wow so edge

2014-11-24 07:18

"the debate over whether eSports events should stay divided by genre or be mixed." Wouldn't it be divided by gender...?

2014-11-24 07:06

Another feminist shit. Not gonna bother to watch.

2014-11-24 07:15

1 reply

in russia...this won´t happen my friend from russia

2014-11-24 07:21

what can i say about this video...no words....except...HLTV army respect u...MOST important thing in the scene...remember dis!!

2014-11-24 07:22

There aren't 'male' specific teams. But there are a female specific teams. This isn't fair! #MASCULISM

2014-11-24 07:33

Why are they saying female teams will never have a chance to play in the male tournaments? I'm sure if they are good enough and qualify there is no problem with them playing, but maybe they think they deserve a spot just because they are a female team.

2014-11-24 07:35

This old retarded argument is the same as pro sports. It's the NBA! National basketball association. Anyone good enough to make an owner of a team money can play. There is just not one woman on the planet good enough. So they make the WNBA. The sexist womans league that men are not allowed to play in. Do any of these cs tourneys say no women allowed? Let them compete and qualify. They will get crushed.

2014-11-24 07:42

Women are so bad at sports they even have a womans bowling league. And that is not that athletic.

2014-11-24 07:43

2 replies

We even have separate Chess championship. what you gonna say about it?

2014-11-24 10:21

1 reply

Judit Polgar. (google it)

2014-12-09 08:25

just completely watched this documentary, what the fuck. They are playing like gold novas, or worse, and after losing 0-2 every game they whine why they cant compete at male tournaments (they probably got rekted by a semi pro male mix team in the qualifier, or they didnt even know about a qualifier) and then they whine why wasnt the female tournament on the main stage, why should it be? they are playing so badly no one would of have enjoyed it, and probably the spectators really wouldnt have cared about female finals. "you would love to get rid of the stereotype that women are badder than men" its not a stereotype, its a fact. I cant recall any female team beating a even semi pro male team.

2014-11-24 08:00

3 replies

i have heard many times that when they start to lose against some noname male mixes they just accuse them of cheating and leave the server

2014-11-24 12:39

1 reply

hahahahha

2014-11-24 12:54

Imagine the game happening on stage and half of the crowd would be thinking "even I can do better than this shit".

2014-12-09 08:32

Haha played pcw against them one time, They beat us 16-13 :(

2014-11-24 08:03

Watched it, but had mixed feelings about it.

2014-11-24 08:26

This is a load of bollocks. If you're good enough then it does not matter what gender you are. The fact of the matter is the females are not up to the calibre of the males in CSGO. This documentary talks a lot of crap.

2014-11-24 08:31

very nice documentary... enjoyed watching.

2014-11-24 08:32

I think the big question is: can the Women compete with the Men in Esport? Looking at the skills needed for esport (hand eye coordination, reflexes etc...) i think the asnwer is a big YES. I think a female league is a hangover from traditional sports, where the physical differences between men and women makes it a necessity.

2014-11-24 08:35

1 reply

Well here's a bummer, there are cognitive and psychological differences between genders as well, and funnily enough hand eye coordination and reflexes are among them, along with others, like spatial orientation, anticipation, stress handling etc. All of which is proven by clinical trials and fMRI scans. Why just not embrace the fact that the differences exist and make this life more entertaining. Women should recognize that there are certain limits for them, and being able to compete on highest e-sport level is out of their reach. I see no big deal in having separate leagues. Equality is such an easily abused word..

2014-11-24 09:31

Maybe they should stop being so fucking bad

2014-11-24 08:36

3 replies

I sympathise becouse you prolly woulnd't dare to say it publicly in sweden, right? :)

2014-11-24 09:42

2 replies

lel, its just facts, i dont need to say it publicly but i did tell that to a girl once and she slapped me in my face. Worth.

2014-11-24 10:21

1 reply

2014-11-24 13:19

Welcome to Sweden, where we whine about every fucking thing cause our country is sooooo racism and against feminism.. :D:D:d

2014-11-24 08:39

5 replies

that comment was so nazi, SD???

2014-11-24 14:34

4 replies

SD aint nazi, get your facts straight, retard.

2014-11-24 16:25

3 replies

Aspergers kid distinguish sarcasm plz.

2014-11-24 16:53

2 replies

Do you even know what Aspergers and the function of it is? Wow you are for sure retarded, vittu.

2014-11-24 16:56

1 reply

Aspergers kidderinos have a hard time distinguishing sarcasm, saatana helvete pissipellinen palleplutt.

2014-11-24 17:16

girls dont know respect is earned not given for free so go earn our respect sit Down and bootcamp and train your fucking ass off until you can beat one of the known male teams make a video of that not some documentary about why you should get higher prize pools and main stage spots for free earn it

2014-11-24 08:42

Bit ironic that this is going to be massively overshadowed by one guy hacking.

2014-11-24 08:50

Muh equality. Didn't even watch it but the sole reason women don't play against men is not that they're denied to, but they're simply far weaker. Top female teams struggle with mid-tier men teams, not to mention guys like NiP, LDLC or fnatic. Let's face it, girls are just scrubs.

2014-11-24 09:00

Get on your knees!

2014-11-24 09:09

Wasn't it enough when bad monkeys got rekt by every single team? It's not like nobody forbid them to play in "male" tournaments, female are just not good enough. Simple as that

2014-11-24 09:11

Thanks for the good comments, thanks for the constructive critics, thanks for all your opinions. Some of them might help improving or changing things. Others look just as they did 10 years ago. Thanks Simon & co for the wonderful docu. We had huge fun with you :)

2014-11-24 09:17

7 replies

sometimes, you need to realize, that female are not equal to men in all area of life. And CS is one of them. They are better at using sex to satisfy their needs, we play better at CS. that's all

2014-11-24 09:24

2 replies

It's all about points of view and thanks God we are actually not exactly the same. The comment about sex is kind of unfortunate and out of place though xD

2014-11-24 09:27

1 reply

It was just for comparison. I don't think we should have mixed team. 'Cause mixed, equal problems ahead. I mean it.

2014-11-24 09:32

You girls definitely need more attention and support, i wish you the best of luck for the future, you surely deserve it :)

2014-11-24 09:56

your all still together :-)?

2014-11-24 12:08

2 replies

Asking the right questions Kappa

2014-11-24 14:13

Yep, four of us still together.

2014-11-24 19:53

I couldn't care less wether a female or a male team was playing a certain tournament. They have to put the same amount of effort in as the male teams, they can't get a free pass just because their women. It doesn't work like that, attend the bloody qualifiers and play your heart out. If you're good enough, good for you.

2014-11-24 09:33

It's such a sad day when one discovers that some journalists find it more 'interesting' ( or rather much more profitable I'd imagine) to make a'equality' empovering documentaries than starting a project who would focus on telling the story of players and teams that really push this sport to where is it today. Brilliant.

2014-11-24 09:38

Boring 1/10

2014-11-24 09:40

And yet again, a video about "equality" is coming from Sweden.

2014-11-24 09:42

Awesome video, very informative and enjoyable, these girls need more support, and we need more of those videos :>

2014-11-24 09:54

2 replies

2014-11-24 10:03

No we do not

2014-11-24 10:35

I really Love yo girls. You're all adorable.

2014-11-24 10:07

stoped watching at 0;12 after hearing first sentense xD

2014-11-24 10:24

SHOUT FOR EQUAL RIGHTS AND LET'S PUT A MALE PLAYING FOR US. EQUAL RIGHTS.

2014-11-24 10:32

Thing is that "men" grow up and told by parents that they have to be strong no mather what. In each cultore on each continent it's pretty much same so... If you ask old shool pros they will tell you stuf like they had to sleep on floors in lan cafe and lot of other risk they had to take to be i place where they are now. Problem with womens is that most likely they never gone thru many risky situations and in the time of crysis they just crumble. I would say it's higher chance for succes and survival of mixed man and woman team than woman only.

2014-11-24 10:32

wtf is this bullshit there is plenty of open qualifiers for anyone to play big tournament so stop asking for something you did NOT earn.

2014-11-24 10:49

I think the main reason why esports could claim to be superior to sports like football is because anyone can play it, meaning you can have health problems, you can be disabled, you can be old, in theory my grandma could make ESL account and win some league. Nobody can say the same about football, so if you make female only league you kind of take away all of that magic

2014-11-24 10:54

We shouldn't 'push' female teams to events just because they're female. They should be considered equal yes, but we should never let them play just to be shown as 'equal'. They can play when they're good enough, because right now they are nowhere near the performance of other teams.

2014-11-24 10:53

Seen it, was pritty good. I'd thought it would be more about the top femal teams instead of just one. But i'm suprised that female tournaments isn't shown more on stream then it is. I mean comon, they need to get the audience more attention. For the people who is really in to esport then sex dosn't really matter and surley we will never get rid of the trollers but that's how it is.

2014-11-24 10:54

5 replies

well they streamed some female matches from ESWC when i tuned in there was 2000 viewers, thats less than a sub par streamer. so they dont stream because noone really watches.

2014-11-24 11:21

3 replies

Okey, but yeah wrote "some female matches". Then I would recommend them to stream more frequent. It's the same as in any other sport. Like for example, in golf the male scene is so freaking dominant both in media as cashwise. But a Scandinavian sportchannel decided to show more and more femal golf due to it's upcomming popularity in social media and publicity. It's been only positive respons due to this dedication in the last year.

2014-11-24 11:37

2 replies

it has to be done the right way then in Denmark the national television channel tried to make the national womens football team popular by broadcasting all their matches and making a lot of publicity it failed miserably

2014-11-24 11:44

1 reply

That's a real shame tho. I admit i'm more in to0 male scene in general in for example golf, but it's pritty obv. i'm a male but it could motivate the females to aim for the top level in any sportactivity.

2014-11-24 11:51

no one wants to watch sub-standard cs. you dont see my open team crying because we dont get as many viewers as nip

2014-11-25 08:39

HAHAHAHHAHA they are allowed to play in male tournaments, they just never qualify because they are just not good

2014-11-24 10:54

I think males have the edge over females in the csgo pro scene due to the fact that males have more hormones associated with the desire to KILL REK SHREAD DESTROY ANNIHILAAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!!!!

2014-11-24 10:55

ps- rip flusha :D

2014-11-24 10:56

I dont think that gender should be barrier in gaming , quality should be decider in this one.

2014-11-24 11:00

what msq said, she has some brains

2014-11-24 11:05

Anders clearly a white knight.

2014-11-24 11:10

4 replies

How right you are! I will have you know it worked too as multiple women nearby offered to have sex with me right after I suggested that female only tournaments could be a stepping stone into a world where everyone just plays together, damn.

2014-11-24 11:49

2 replies

did they gently stroke your beard :^)

2014-11-24 19:19

But Anders , they get the chance to play together with the boys in many qualifiers and tournaments? Last time we saw girls play against boys was fragbite which you casted! to be fair it wasnt even fun watching them get a couple rounds as most , but as this documentary is all about equality that means its really unfair the girl teams get the chance to attend those qualifiers/tournaments instead of tier 2 male teams WHO could put up a fight against some of the teams. , after all its an competetive scene and we want to see the BEST. Written from my IPhone , sorry for typos.

2014-11-25 07:13

And you have obviously never been touched by a girl.

2014-11-24 14:51

I'm sorry but this makes me super angry.. when girls in csgo are dedicated and make a team it's so easy for them to get a good org and support.. not for male players.. it's very hard for them to break through.. I get when women try to break through in sports and so on but I don't think they should cry about the scene being more about man.. the situation atm is unfair for guys rather than girls..

2014-11-24 11:25

5 replies

This competitive scene of girls is too small .. thats why it is .. and girls are better for publicity .. :)

2014-11-24 11:38

1 reply

2014-11-24 12:06

Your just stupid. At the moment you're just guessing, i'd bet you 100€ that isn't the case. Yeah sure the competition is high in the male scene but there arn't many teams that would even concider the female players due to it's small scene. So please just read and stop write.

2014-11-24 11:41

2 replies

lol.. trust me, I'm not guessing..

2014-11-24 11:59

1 reply

I'm not evene gonna bother

2014-11-24 12:06

Apparently there is difference because you are worse girls and people want to watch some good counter strike not your pretty (not) faces. Hate this feministisk attitude that woman are discriminated because of sex, left wing butthurt bullshit. :)

2014-11-24 11:40

I have come across female CS at different stages through out my time playing and to be honest I'm a little sad there hasn't been any significant development. In the SHG Open days I had the opportunity to look from within the mix-gender CS team Aurora Gaming as I had a good friend on the team and had a couple of matches with them as a standin. There was no talk of excuses in defeat due to gender, neither were the goal to compete exclude themselves from the competitive male-dominant environment. They practised and competed like any other team. They were a well-known and fair team in Denmark at the time, strongly respected since one of the male-players was a former top player in CS and the coach was playing next to his coaching job. I was sure that the girls from that team would be mixed in - over time - at a couple of sub-top teams in Denmark, but unfortunately things change. As time got by, focus shifted from being participants in normal tournaments to female ones. All of a sudden the mentality shifted from competing with teams particularly better than themselves to playing female teams. Yes they had a number of good results, but the change concludes - for me at least - that the easier the opponents the better. Who could blame them? Compete to be the top 10-20 best teams in your country or become among the 5 best in the world? I didn't really follow the female CS-scene until I was present at ESWC 2012. At the venue there were a match on the main stage between two female teams. I was actually impressed by their ability to play the game. There were plenty of tactics I haven't even seen before and the individual skill level was great. So it's not because the gap to the top male scene is THAT big, with time invested I could see teams competing next to the males ones. The thing I don't understand in this context is, why there has to be the "easy-way-out" for all the female teams. I can see why many up and coming CS players are frustrated with the female CS teams, since they basicly get their support for "free", just being girls. The time invested in up and coming teams is normally enormous, so with news about female CS teams getting support from organizations only days after re-assembling to attend a prestigous tournament with cash prizes is a slap in the face. Equality? Then start acting like it's something you actually want, rather than having the seperate tournaments and free sponsorship deals. Qualify through the same channels as the rest of the teams out there. Show some intentions of mixing up with the male-dominant-scene. Otherwise, the call for equality is pure bs. It's clear there is potential among some teams and players, why not grab the change and invest the time to earn respect, rather than create an even bigger gap to the rest of the community. I'm not saying there shouldn't be all female tournaments, but mixing it up once and a while won't harm anything, rather the opposite. More sponsorship deals, viewers, organizations involved and mutual respect will be the outcome of ONE community instead of TWO.

2014-11-24 11:42

3 replies

The problem is, since female teams aren't as skilled as most pro teams today, there wouldn't be any female teams in big tournaments, resulting in angry feminists that say females are discriminated in esports. Though, whenever a male team doesn't qualify (for the exact same reason, skill), nobody could give two shits

2014-11-24 13:19

2 replies

I think his point is that the female players aren't developing when they're just playing against each other, and if they would just mix it up (play with guys and against guys also), then they would develop and the gap between females and males would shrink. At least that's what I think his point was :D

2014-11-24 13:49

1 reply

Exactly, or at least do everything in their power to minimize the gap to the male-teams, in terms of scrimming, training sessions, bringing in coaches, mix up the teams regarding gender and such. There is a lot of possiblities. I just doubt it will happen. Ever. Too much money specified for the female teams in terms of competitions and sponsorship deals to make it a reality.

2014-11-24 14:16

if they didn't have separate tournaments then they would have nothing to compete in. I'm pretty sure there are no restrictions about female teams being able to qualify for stuff like CSGO majors, the female teams right now just aren't good enough to compete though. I hope they become stronger because I would rather have mixed tournaments than male and female ones. However if you look at pretty much any sport it's the same story.

2014-11-24 11:55

ive seen a top level female match one time,, was a final in some eswc female tournament, and tbh the level was about the same as groupstage matches in medium level online leagues or even worse

2014-11-24 11:59

Let them qualify for majors just like any other team but with one condition, if they want equality then same competitions for everyone. No more only-male/only-female tournaments. Lets see what happens.

2014-11-24 12:01

Nice work on the documentary. As for the subject: I don't get why girls can't just qualify just like any other team, regardless of what sex they are? That's some bullshit. Put them in the same tournaments and groups as men and let the best team win.

2014-11-24 12:07

3 replies

Ye, they will never qualify, but if equality is what they want, then give them equality.

2014-11-24 12:10

1 reply

Throw them to the wolves.

2014-11-24 12:55

They can't qualify cause they aren't skilled enough. There are plenty of more skilled male teams out there that don't qualify, but nothing is said about them.

2014-11-24 13:17

CTR+F "Tits" No Results. So proud of HLTV.

2014-11-24 12:09

1 reply

you fucked it up tho

2014-11-24 12:29

Nice documentary :)

2014-11-24 12:32

CTRL+F "Kitchen" only 1 result. WTF hltv.

2014-11-24 12:32

who is the blonde one in the team? X_X

2014-11-24 12:43

its not like they cant try to qualify for other events.. now if they arent as good as the guys thats another story

2014-11-24 12:45

It's nice to see female scene growing, but mixed teams? C'mon guys... If they were good enough for male scene they would attend and qualify for some strong events.

2014-11-24 13:09

i dunno why women want to be equal when they're not

2014-11-24 13:12

It's a fucking computer game, if the women aren't as good as men then there must be something different in the brain? It's not like its real sports, where u have to use your body and the male as an advantage... this is a fucking computer game. Why do women have their own league in a computer game? seriously? it doesnt make any sense.

2014-11-24 13:22

I LOVE YOU GIRLS, KEEP ON GOIN!

2014-11-24 13:20

no offense but PRO male gamers are totally out of woman CSGO players' league. One of the girls in the documentary even said she has played CS for over 10 years. A lot of guy gamers that have played it for 3 years can easily beat her.

2014-11-24 13:26

wow, awesome documentary. i really appreciated the efforts that those girls put on this

2014-11-24 13:39

One indisputable fact that this documentary doesn't seem to touch upon, is that women doesn't actually have any psychological or physiological disadvantages by being women. For this reason I don't think there's any argument that makes female-only tournaments in CS reasonable. The comments about that women can also play, and that they are just as good as guys, were only partially true. Yes, the best female team in the world in CS is better than a very big amount of male teams, but saying that they could compete with the best male teams is just plain wrong. I don't actually know why this is true, perhaps because they aren't practicing against the best male teams, and are having a harder time getting better? All I know is, that a lot of unknown semi-pro male teams could win vs the best female team in the world, I am quite sure of that, and this is precisely the reason for why the female matches aren't on stage, as they're just simply nowhere near as entertaining to watch, since their skill is just lower. When I was playing competitively, my team and I didn't want to play against female teams. Not because we were sexist (not at all!), but simply because it would be a waste of our time practice-wise, although I did feel bad telling them this :( With that said, I did like the documentary as a whole. The girls meeting each other for the first time, and handling the loss is something that all competitive players have felt, and I really liked that storyline, and this shows that they have the same amount of passion for the game as the guys.

2014-11-24 13:44

Men are physically and mentally more advanced and have potential to reach a lot higher in both aspects. That's why women will always have their own leagues although no one gives a shit about those. We want to see the best competing be it any sport. We don't give a damn who is best under 16, best woman or best elder.

2014-11-24 13:56

This is a fair sport, why should men be better at it? Only because they train more on their aim and strats, so I dont see why the females are crying, and why should females play vs females, the men dont have any advantage in esports, compared to football for an example or ice-hockey.

2014-11-24 13:59

1 reply

#299

2014-11-24 14:01

good documentary. I'm all for equal gaming.

2014-11-24 14:06

2014-11-24 14:12

Imagine Virtus Pro asking NIP about tactics to face fnatic

2014-11-24 14:43

1 reply

AHAHAHAHA +1

2014-11-24 16:23

2014-11-24 14:43

Equality is NOT being able to victimize yourself on the basis that you've decided to participate in a maledominated activity. It's absolutely ludicrious that we hear some of these overly fortunately female players complaining. FFS, you have already been given your own newb tournaments with free pricemoney. You get sent there on unearned sponsorships because tits sell. You have ZERO idea how much effort so many guys put into being the best at this game. I participated at ESWC finals after having played 10.000 hours of CS - if you want equality, you go fucking do that instead of feeling like a victim.

2014-11-24 14:50

1 reply

2014-11-24 15:02

The logic of the comments.. feels like moving back to the 20th century!

2014-11-24 14:57

Keeping the genders separate isn't about inequality it's about not having everyone's time wasted with 16-0 games

2014-11-24 15:05

I seriously hate this feminist bullcrap, they put up their own barriers (in this case female only tournaments) and then complain about it. There is no physical aspect in cs go (strength, etc) that can't be trained equally by man and women, every movement is mechanical (muscle memory, reflex, etc), and the mentality plays a great role. If you want equality, forget about the female-only tournaments, gather the best females in a team, set a goal to yourselves and try to qualify, because nothing is stopping you, there are no male-only tournaments. Remember that in every major qualifier there are 256 teams fighting for 2/4 spots, so should you fail, you are not alone and it's not because you are females..

2014-11-24 15:19

Lizzan Aka Hoooooooooooooooot

2014-11-24 15:31

I'm totally OK with equal gaming, but I want to point out that the amount of dedication of males for gaming or specifically CS GO is more than the women's, it's not that important but it'll be less competitive but on the long term female teams may learn something & develop, also I'd love the idea of mixed teams.. maikelele raging at juliano HAHAHAHAHA..

2014-11-24 15:34

This is fucking awkward

2014-11-24 15:45

gl girls;]

2014-11-24 16:05

Very good documentary! The subtitles though... some improvement to do with them! I hope this will help GL Girls!

2014-11-24 16:07

1 reply

I dont think the production value was that high , solid video overall.

2014-11-24 16:10

My take on the documentary and female tournaments: -The community in general definitely needs to change, in the documentary they said things like "go back to the kitchen", I've seen far worse things said and it's so immature and plain stupid to scare women of like that. That being said, not everyone is like this but there are far too many. -They're claiming that women can't compete in these tournaments, says who? The chance of a female to reach a professional level are just as low as a males. It's just really hard and with this much more males playing it's just much more likely to have a pro scene dominated by males. -Agree with Anders on the stepping stone thing to make the scene grow. I think it would make the game much more accessible for women if they see that there's a separate scene without all the sexist remarks. But seeing it as a top level or professional tournament, I dunno.. They still have to prove it to me by being competitive to the bigger male teams, which they aren't. -I think that there should be more of these tournaments as long as there are people that want to watch this and follow the scene and if they do it, at least do it right. Give them a proper stage and don't schedule these matches during (to most viewers) more important male matches like at eswc. The problem is that not only the cs scene but the gaming scene in general is very hateful/rude to women. These tourneys might help change that, but claiming that females have such a disadvantage in cs is just absolute bullshit and you shouldn't victimize yourself like that. btw: loved the moment in the end where she said that she wanted to go home and play.

2014-11-24 16:11

2 replies

After reading some of the comments I realized that by having these tournaments you create hate towards the women's scene for having more price money than equally skilled male tournaments.

2014-11-24 16:34

I agree with you! thumb up!

2014-11-24 16:58

what is this ?

2014-11-24 16:15

go to 13:15min. the funny thing is they still loosing

2014-11-24 16:45

1 reply

Overconfidence after getting theses info probably.

2014-11-24 16:58

fuck feminism

2014-11-24 16:49

Is this documentary actually needed? Last time I heard the female players wanted to have their own tournaments because they couldn't compete with male teams. Like in physical sports females rarely compete with males because their results can't most of the time reach the male results. Not to say I was somewhat confused when I heard there is actually gender divided tournaments and leagues in esports because females shouldn't be underdogs in non-physical sports. But for some reason it is so and I'm not sure this documentary actually supports the female gaming if they do want to have their own side of the esports when they can't compete with male teams. Good example when the few female teams were allowed to take part in mixed tournament and couldn't win so one player let her pro male player boyfriend play as her. The male player actually didn't get any punishment for disguising as some other player or being registered as a proper stand-in which I find weird. There was no problem if he had played under his own name but they ended up to hoax instead.

2014-11-24 16:54

girls dont play with males cuz most of them arent good enough and the ones that are good enough rather play with other girls, isnt about feminism because you most be really stupid if you dont want more girls to get interested in videogames (i think is something that would benefit most of us :S) is just how it is nowadays.

2014-11-24 17:01

...LKS.... <3

2014-11-24 17:13

So, this is very very simple. You have 2 choises, 1st you play has good has males and play against them, 2nd : you keep playing female tournaments, and hope valve support you. ty and come again

2014-11-24 17:16

Thank u all for u comment and took ur time to watch the documentary. I think this subject is something we need to take serious and do something to make the best out of all teams. So many comments!!!We all have our opinion, so it will be fun to read. :)

2014-11-24 17:24

nice documentary

2014-11-24 17:32

Are they Global? :p

2014-11-24 17:33

separated but equal! humans just don't learn from history, that's nothing new. :D

2014-11-24 17:38

Only girls would suffer from a mixed competition in any sports. There are a few, who are good enough to compete at a higher level with the chance to win ( Michele Mouton/WRC/, Jutta Kleinschmidt/Dakar-rally/, Judit Polgár/chess/ etc. ) , but 70% of the female competitors have mediocre performance. Only the hipe about having boobs gives them a chance to enter high level competitions.

2014-11-24 17:45

Hi I'm a siren! Anyone?

2014-11-24 17:47

The call out for equality is all wrong. There is nothing that holds back women for participating in male tournaments, only women themselves. They want equality when it comes to playing on stages, prize money, playing tournaments and all the good things. The fact is, no one is stopping them from joining in with the males. Thats equality. Female gaming is only a small community and even though it is in the same game as the males they don't receive half the attention. So we have to look at their part of the community as a seperate entity much like smaller games within the fps genre. Games who will never have the same status as CS has and therefor never gets to play on the main stages at tournaments. I do understand that people are calling them unreasonable things and tell them to return to the kitchen, but there isn't much difference whether it was males playing males or males playing females. The only difference is what is being said. Some of it comes from pure jalousi though, because the top female players have their tournaments and prize money. They get to experience things most players won't without having the same level of skill as their male counterparts. I have been watching some female games at ESWC and followed juliano for a small period of time and even though she and the other players are good, none of them would be able to play in a top30 or maybe even a top50 male team. Atleast not based on my experience. Personally I have never lost to a womens team and even though my own level was only around the top10 clans in DK there was quite a gap from us to the best female teams or cross-gender teams. I have seen some talented women / girls in my time as a player, some with impressive aims, but when it comes down to game sense, coordination and mobility they were just so far behind and no matter how much they played they didn't really improve. Studies have shown that women don't have the same grasp of 3D environments as men, which affects the coordination and movement ingame. So is it fair they have their own tournaments? of course, because they don't have the same attributes as men and there is only a slim chance that a girl gamer could be as good as men. One of the biggest reasons to why females doesn't improve as much as males is because they don't put in the needed effort. Again turning to the studies, they show that female players play less than males. Bad Monkey Gaming competed at ESWC and they did so with around 3 weeks of practice. Almost every day before that Julia would be streaming on twitch, only playing with her two of her teammates in PUGs. Hell when I played we played 4 hours 5 days a week for months until we had a good sense of each other, strats and teamplay. This is where they really fall behind. At ESWC BMG had huge problems with their standard setup and the lack of teamplay was evident right from the start - they would not have survived against teams who barely are able to break into the top20 in a country like Germany, Sweden or Denmark. If someone should start a callout for rights of equality it should be us men, but that won't happen, neither should it.

2014-11-24 18:04

1 reply

The standard (skill, communication, coordination,...) for woman scene is so low (compared to men) they can compete at "high level" without any fucking hard preparation like we (men) do. That's why they just play enough to get those criteras and that's it. If they want to play and compete with man without getting pwned they need to pracctice hard and leave humanity behind.

2014-11-24 20:43

WOW. Scarlett in sc2 doesn't need to be separated...

2014-11-24 18:19

1 reply

Because she is not a woman.

2014-11-24 18:25

Too many spelling mistakes. If you're not sure on how to spell a word, double check it lmao. It's a documentary, shouldn't it be just a bit professional?

2014-11-24 19:00

nice man

2014-11-24 19:04

7:34 come at me brah?

2014-11-24 19:09

I have an honest question. was team tactix the only team that let him follow them around for cph games? i ask because this is a film about equality in gaming but he follows a team that gets knocked out in groups in a female only competition

2014-11-24 19:34

Oh yea beauties <3 :D

2014-11-24 19:35

but i dont get it, why females would want this? there is no chance they can be competitive against the best in the world. If they win some money now they would win 0 if female-only tournaments disappeared =/

2014-11-24 19:47

Womins belong in da kitchens xd xd top lel

2014-11-24 19:53

Women should be happy with how it is. They get the chance to win decent prize money while still being mediocre. It's like laughing in the face of male teams that are actually better than them but will never win anything in the main tournaments because they're not good enough. If they were allowed to I'm sure they would be much happier joining the womens tournament and have a chance at winning something instead.

2014-11-24 20:37

Girls in the team would destroy the teamspirit so no thanks!

2014-11-24 20:35

girls still think that they can compare with boys in CS :D this is really stupid cause best girl is not even close to top 1000000 player in the world tbh ... but still they can be happy to even have tournaments (with 10k € prize pool and stuff).

2014-11-24 20:38

1 reply

That's complete rubbish and on a par with the "tired and leave the game" thing below.

2014-11-25 02:49

The big problem is...guys don't accept losing against a girl.

2014-11-24 20:41

Girls as we know, they never stay in one place for too long, they will just get tired and leave the team/game. Plus they will always complain because or they play against men and they feel weak, or they want to play against men because they feel confident, but in the end they realise they were wrong, and RQ. -My Opinion-

2014-11-24 20:42

Of course they have more sponsors than male teams... Who doesnt like to see a Samsung Logo print on a tit, when the majority of the players are males and like boobs... Sex is da bussiness

2014-11-24 20:45

I have a question. There were region qualifiers to esl cologne. Every team could sign up to participate in this. You just need esl account and team of five. Why none of female teams sign up? There is no restriction. So this female feared to sign up or sponsors wanted to avoid disater with scores like 16-0 against semi pro male teams?

2014-11-24 22:04

söt lks

2014-11-25 00:00

First and foremost I am a girl, and I don't agree with this, here's why. 1) DRAMA 2)There is a reason women can't play irl sports with men they are faster stronger and think different, same with a game science will show you will every study done men DO have FASTER reflex's then women and by quite a bit actually, also there is a reason there isn't many female marines or special forces women's brains are programed differently then mens when it comes down to survival tactics. There is a reason men were the hunters and women gathers are brains do not work the same plan and simple. Next thing you know they will be bitching because they can't ever win and we should LET them win.Even mixed teams is a dumb idea then they will complain about bottom fraging. WOMEN complain way to much. Not to mention girls team can't even beat other girls team, epsilon had to bring a MALE team LDLC again a MALE member to play as one of the girls, now they want equal rights fuck off!Women and Men have never in anything in this world been able to compete same com, sport same team opposite team doesn't matter the brains work to different this would be a huge mistake to do this. Makes no sense, yes we are all human but we are not all equal i don't care what anyone says MEN and WOMEN are and always will be DIFFERENT! plain and simple

2014-11-25 03:35

1 reply

Reflexes in Men and Women According to a Clemson University article, men appear to have faster reflexes to both visual and audio stimuli than women. However, a 2006 study found the gaps between men and women's reaction times to visual stimuli appear to have reduced over time, possibly because more women drive and participate in sports than when prior studies were conducted decades before. Another study found that the muscle contraction rates were the same in both genders, but the amount of time between when the stimulus was presented and when the muscle began to contract was less for men. Accuracy and Other Factors Although men appear to have faster reaction times, a 2004 study found that when aiming at a target, men were faster but women were more accurate. Radford University: Reaction Times Clemson Universityl; A Literature Review on Reaction Time; Robert J. Kosinski; September 2010 So you have the abillity to be more accurate but have slower reflexes :P

2014-12-09 16:02

Women pro teams don't even stack up against male semi pro teams how are they going to make the league they cant be put top pro spot just because they are in the female league bicthes gotta earn that like the rest of them men. And this is coming from a GIRL for fuck sakes lol it will never happen thank god because I would stop watching games lol most retarded shit I ever heard.

2014-11-25 03:40

Does HLTV cover female pro games? I think I've only seen coverage at majors or other LAN events but what about online leagues?

2014-11-25 12:12

nice

2014-11-25 18:40

i see you Guys are wondering why the prize pool for female tournaments is low ill tell you why some Guys still heat the advise of a long dead poet, what he said was: Money over motherfuckin bitches M.O.B. on 'em nigga Keep your motherfuckin mind on your money, fuck these hoes You don't need no motherfuckin bitches You need some motherfuckin money Get your mind right nigga, keep your game tight Play right play by the rules and you'll get paid fuck the fools

2014-11-26 11:48