I think the one-on-one clash between them comes 1st into consideration before the round difference , b/c if u watch the group ranking u can see SK 3rd even though it has a better round difference than alternate
2012-02-13 20:34
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now it's totally open that which two advance from this group since Virtus.pro gave free 28rounds for Alternate even without trying to beat them and leaving server before match was over
2012-02-13 20:52
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i like this commentator, although i think hes a bit overrated because people think hes funny. he really needs to work on his overview/speccing work... he is never watching the right guy!
2012-02-13 21:14
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sk gaming play with ping 6 and still they lost to alternate... change server to winfakt one and winfakt also will crush them =)
and everyone here defend f0rest, you guys are retarded :D
sk plays on bootcamp also hahaha
2012-02-13 21:15
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my point is: lurppis got reason to whine, and f0rest behavior is also bad...
but people here are fcking fanboys :) specially sk fans
and what ESC got to do with this? LOLOL they don't even play against them
2012-02-13 21:29
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lurppis whine was bit lame and so was f0rest\s, but why they are playing on server where SK have almost LAN pings and winfakt doesn\t. Same thing was in match SK vs Virtus.pro, SK ping owned them too
2012-02-13 21:17
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Lurppis whiner and dickhead?
SURPRIIIIIISEEEEEE
Not really, finland always been jelly on sweden. Thats why the 6-1 win in hockey was the most important thing happend in their lifes.
2012-02-13 21:19
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no reason to be jelly, because ice hockey and football are pretty much only things were you have been better, in everything else we have been.
and seems that you really cant forgot that 1/6 ice hockey final rape >D
2012-02-13 21:27
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HAHAHAAHAHA
"in everything else we have been"
hAHAAAHAHAHAAHAHA in what? makin lakkupipus.
Please dont fool urself.
Sweden is better in pretty much everything. Stop deny the truth.
2012-02-13 21:34
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sweden is better but you are not :D:D thats sad. you can only talk about people from your country but they don't gonna talk about you XD how does it feel to be a looser? :D only you can answer this question :D
2012-02-13 23:23
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How do you prevent people from ghosting in an official online tourney I always wondered? I mean ofcourse their screen goes black but they can still watch stream?
2012-02-13 21:29
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SK is playing with almost LAN pings, so this match doesnt tell everything yet. though i believe that SK will be really good soon when they get used to play trace :)
2012-02-13 21:33
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I may be missing some of this story, but I do sympathise with Lurppis on this one. Those pings are a free win for SK, and there's no way to justify such a skewed server selection :/
(Edit: fixed a typo.)
2012-02-13 21:36
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That does not prove your case. If I was an Alternate fanboy, I could just as easily counter that SK would've lost by an even larger margin if the pings had been fair.
So far everybody's just throwing opinions around. I'm going on what I've heard in interviews since I haven't played in ages. What's your evidence?
2012-02-13 21:41
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It would be if anybody had presented an argument to the contrary - all I've seen are unsubstantiated opinions.
I'm happy to be wrong on this if someone can convince me.
2012-02-13 21:52
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Yeah sure, please give me your sources then, I would like to see youre so called evidence of some pro saying that 10 ping difference is an instant loss.
And no, youre logic is pretty flawed. Both alternate and winfakt had the same ping disadvantage, thing is Alternate won, so basically youre statement is invalid.
"Those pings are a free win for SK, and there's no way to justify such a skewed server selection :/"
Apparently that does not mean a free win. You claim to have evidence, but show none. I stick to facts, in this case the results.
2012-02-13 21:57
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I agree my evidence is weak - it's based on my memory of interviews over the years, none of which I could find again quickly (the only thing I can point to right now is this: hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=104122#r282.. which is obviously not going to satisfy you since it's Lurppis we're discussing here - still, I think his experience counts more than that of some random HLTV users).
But you haven't provided any evidence at all. The facts are ambiguous here. You don't seem to understand that a particular result has many underlying causes - a similar ping difference does not imply that both results will be identical, just that the higher ping team has the same disadvantage in both cases. I'm arguing that this disadvantage is not trivial, and it gets compounded by the psychological effects of being treated unfairly.
I do take your point that it was not a freewin for SK - I thought it was clear that I was exaggerating for effect.
2012-02-13 22:08
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But I am not the one really claiming something, you are.
The thing is you stick to what lurppis is saying, and his opinion is obviously biased in this case, I simply stick to what the games are showing us. Yes I do realise that the results might've been affected by something else, but we can't know or prove that, so let's stop guessing and stick to what we're seeing. Also I don't see lurppis saying the pings in this case will change much, rather he seems pissed of cuz' of the way SK acted.
2012-02-13 22:18
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I doubt he would have put up a fuss if he didn't consider it important. But as I said, I'm going on opinions from more players than just Lurppis.
Re me claiming something: I just stated my opinion, people told me I was wrong but didn't give any good reasons. I don't have better evidence to hand. Result: nobody changes their minds.
2012-02-13 22:24
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The thing is, you claim several players stated it, but somehow you can't prove it, and as far as I can see, no one backs your evidence up, so I am sorry, but that makes youre post look even less trustworthy.
anyway my point is, if it really was such an issue, I think we both can agree that it wouldve been more known, and you wouldve been able to actually find evidence
2012-02-13 22:39
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Yes, because the fact that nobody reading this giant wall of text decided to concur with me proves I'm untrustworthy? Are you seriously making an argument from popular opinion?
For the last time, I agree I haven't proved my point, but at least I've offered some clue as to where my opinion came from. Nobody has extended me the same courtesy.
Finally, I haven't tried looking for further evidence because I know it's very tricky to search interviews if you don't remember the exact quote or even which player said it. It gets even harder when most of them are video-based.
2012-02-13 22:49
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no my point is just that it is very difficult to believe it, when no one is backing you up, and almost everyone seems to disagree with you, atleast of the people who decided to reply here. This is not a prove that you're wrong, but it certainly does not help when you add it in the fact you have no evidence at all.
Also basically my evidence, is the lack of evidence from you, considering you were the one to create a statement - and no, this does of course not mean that my opinion is the right one.
But until you get some proofs, I will stand by my opinion.
2012-02-13 22:59
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the fact that you haven't played in ages is why you opinion is invalid. LAN is the epitome of fair play, where no outside factors are allowed into the game, but online, there are going to be ping differences, and in one way or another, one team is at the very least, at a slight disadvantage. that is just online counter-strike, there is to be done because there will always be variables no matter what. this game wasn't about one team getting packeted (happened to fnatic in 09-10 constantly, as one of thousands of examples), this was a game about a 10-20 ping difference over the entire course of a game, with the maximum ping of WinFakt being 35, but with an average of about 24-25. SK had 5-12, with the average of about 8-9.
While obviously I am not delving into how fair (or honestly, probably unfair) the decision making process of what server is used (WF wants to play on FI server, SK wants to play on SE server, obviously.) for the tournament, I'm simply stating my opinion that the actual difference in gameplay for each team, is quite minimal, especially in comparison to what can be the variables of an online match.
2012-02-13 22:13
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That was a decent reply aside from the first sentence. I'm not trying to convince anybody, I'm asking people to convince me if they disagree.
I'm genuinely curious - why do you consider ping difference to be more important than ping ratio? What makes 10-20 ping difference negligible? What about the psychological effects of the unfairness?
2012-02-13 22:29
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Well, the actual number difference is significant in this case because making the statement "Winfakt played with pings 3x as high as SK" is so greatly aided by the fact that SK players had such low pings. Eight times three is only 24, which is still a very good ping overall for online cs. Sure, there is a slight disadvantage, but that happens in every game.
I think that Winfakt is an experienced team, and should have done a better job handling what they obviously felt was an unfair ruling on what server to play on. Regardless of the fact that their FI server could have possibly provided a fairer game in terms of ping difference (although obviously it'd be in favor of the fin's), once the match goes live, WinFakt should have done a better job of getting that out of their minds and playing their game.
2012-02-13 23:16
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Hmm does anyone know whether the results vs virtuspro will be counted in the 3way tie. It's quite significant since alternate will be out if it is not taken into account, and winfakt will be out I think if they are taken into account
2012-02-13 21:35
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Thanks. Although it seems that it wouldn't have mattered after all since winfakt took a few rounds in the end and even got the overall round score to be equal with alternate's.
2012-02-13 21:49
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Yeah I really don't get it. There was no way H^N was going to come back and be as good as before he left, and even in his prime I wouldn't say he was better than aslak is now (though it's hard to make a comparison between two times so far apart). Maybe after a few bad lans they'll bump aslak back up to #1 slot
2012-02-13 21:42
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Yea it's a bit the same for me as I don't understand it either. Although of course obviously the players think themselves that H^N is the better overall awper since he is playing with it, aslak was so good last year that taking the awp away from him seems really strange. At least it was good to see that they played double awp on train ct side. Eventhough it didn't go that well this time vs sk, I think they can be really good with their 2 awps if they keep working on it
2012-02-13 21:48
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They're pretty good, but I think they need to swap out allu or H^N for a good aggro rifler. Basic is good but not that aggressive, more of a defensive player, and I think that showed on this map (he had a better looking CT side than T, almost looking unmotivated or depressed on T side). Other than Basic, allu isn't putting up numbers consistently, lurppis is IGL not a main fragger, aslak and h^n are sharing awp duties. It's probably too close to the formation of this lineup to suggest cutting someone, but that's my guess on what will show as a weakness as time goes on.
2012-02-13 22:24
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Sad.. i really thought that SK didn't play in playoffs, because i don't like them. They think they had the best skill players, and can win everything. Its bad thinking..
2012-02-13 21:37
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yes I think so, in that case we have :
SK - WF 21-9
WF - ALT 23-7
ALT - SK 17-13
SK = +12-4 =+8
WF = +16-12 =+4
ALT = +4-16 = -12
we should have
1st SK +8
2nd WF +4
3rd ALT -12
2012-02-13 21:52
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I had a good opinion about lex,kucher,h4cker untill today...i really understand that they suffered few change and they don't have time to practice...but really...you can't lose against alternate with 28-2..
2012-02-13 22:26
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They are playing at lan for this tournament and IEM6 WC where is at SK's bootcamp in Germany or a teammate's home in Sweden,we must wait to see how they play at Lan with new lineup,it's a little early to get conclusion now.
2012-02-13 22:02
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it should be these three against each other so differences goes:
sk vs alt 13-17 / -4, +4
alt vs wf 7-23 / -16, +16
sk vs wf 21-9 / +12, -12
so matches against virtus doesn't count.
SK +8
WF +4
ALT -12
This is how it goes in other sports.
2012-02-13 21:51
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if differences would be all the same between those three, then it would count. But first comes matches only between this three. As I said, it should go that way cuz this is the way it goes every sports.
2012-02-13 21:56
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it's like that in handball, basketball and many other sports ;)
ps. in football it's different but mainly that's because in football lesser "scores" are made so it's kinda a hard to make such a big difference so a team would undeservedly advance...while in handball or especially in basketball (CS too) a huge difference when two teams (one playing for everything, other playing for nothing) face each other
2012-02-13 21:59
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The fin tells da truth,because the team that knows it will not pass will just leave like Virtus.pro at 16-2 giving alternate +26 round difference.So outsiders don't count
2012-02-13 22:03
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SK had 10 ping on the finnish server and then refused to play there, although winfakt had 3x there ping on the Swedish server.
I think the match was completely unfair to be honest.
2012-02-13 22:08
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true, but with swedish this is the way you have to go, if you want to play with them online, same was in SK match against Virtus.pro.
though i don't say that SK is bad or could\t won on ping fair server, thats behaviour was quite low.
Hope still all good for my favorite team SK :p hopefully they will also in the future play on ping fair servers :p In next LAN tournament we will really see how well they can do with trace:)
2012-02-13 22:16
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It might be that way, but I think lurppis whines too much about that. With that game they wouldnt have chance against sk in train even on finnish server. And they know it. Good that they still got through.
2012-02-13 22:16
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They shouldnt play important matches like this online.. And if f0rest was so mature he shouldnt have said a thing back to lurppis so its a little bit immature of both sides. Still i enjoy playing WF and sk :) so good they are both in the next round.
2012-02-13 22:31
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