To ban, or not to ban?

With the ESL having banned Jerry "xelos" Råberg and suspended Epsilon from RaidCall EMS One, HLTV.org's editor-in-chief Luís "MIRAA" Mira takes a look at the way this case was handled.

This article is solely the opinion of Luís Mira and does not reflect the views of HLTV.org or its affiliates.

It was written in the stars: someday, sooner or later, (at least) one of Epsilon’s players would be caught in the net. Like a bleeding that will not stop with just a Band-Aid, the community would not stop its frantic persecution of the Swedish team at bust movies or organner screenshots. They wanted more, and more here means a ban and the public humiliation that comes with it.

And that is exactly what happened on Wednesday, when Jerry "xelos" Råberg was charged by the ESL with cheating in the grand final of the RaidCall EMS One #1 Cup, against n!faculty. It was the ESL's pompously-called 'anti-cheat team' - and not ESL Wire - to bust him. Twenty-seven days after the match was played, white smoke finally billowed from the ESL's chimney. The verdict? Guilty, by unanimity. The punishment? A two-year ban for the player, and the disqualification of his team from the current EMS One season.

I would like to stress that I am not going to argue whether Råberg cheated or not, but rather look into this worrying trend that tournament organisers still seem to follow, which is to ban players without worrying too much about the consequences.

First of all, it is the ESL's fault that, in case Råberg cheated, its Wire anti-cheating tool did not catch the player red-handed, as much as it is the laboratories' fault that athletes continue to get away with using performance-enhancing drugs. Of course that in both situations wrongdoers are always one step ahead in this cat-and-mouse game, but is it too much to ask that an anti-cheating tool which allegedly cost €500,000 to develop can do its job?


Everyone still remembers coloN's ClanBase ban

But anti-cheats can be bypassed and if there is a suspicion that Epsilon cheated, then the ESL has every right to analyse the match and every demo. And in the words of Lari Syrota, Product Manager for EMS One, it was proved "beyond doubt" that Råberg cheated against n!faculty.

So, dare I ask, where is the evidence? There was not a single line about what he did, not a report, a screenshot or a video to back up their decision. And let’s face it: Epsilon were the easiest target out there because of their controversial history, so many applauded this move without even questioning it.

You would have thought than an organization like the ESL would have learned by now how to properly present a case in situations like this, especially because some people have complained in the past about being unfairly banned. And while a ban may do little damage to a couple of John Does, we are talking about a competition with players who are either professional or aspire to become one someday. A ban can easily destroy a player's career, so the ESL should have been a lot more careful when dealing with this affair, all the more so because it was a German team who benefited the most from the case.

By acting the way they did, the ESL has left room for debate and, even worse than that, for reasonable doubt. The scary part is that only a few have cared about that, for the verdict on the team had been out for months. With CS:GO being a new game, there will be a lot of up-and-coming players bursting onto the scene, some of whom will be completely unknown to the top teams. Tournament organisers will need to be very careful to keep cheaters at bay, but decisions like the one to ban Råberg simply cannot go unexplained. Otherwise, they risk losing the public's trust.

#1
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal mfxd
Nice read
2013-03-18 12:04
0
#2
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Russia beka_b
ahahha pic great!
2013-03-18 12:05
0
2 replies
#146
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Tunisia KJou
+1
2013-03-18 14:37
0
#431
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal picc
+1
2013-03-24 16:52
0
#3
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France Spip
He is clean. Esl admins are just retarded
2013-03-18 12:05
0
2 replies
#345
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada rbx
Bite your words Spip. Watch an HLTV demo of his with X-Ray and if you have any common sense, you'll see that dude is cheating easy.
2013-03-19 04:45
0
1 reply
#432
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland marco555
link?
2013-03-26 08:24
0
#4
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Great article and i love that someone dares taking up this topic! Hopefully, everyone can keep it on a proper level and discuss instead of constant hating..
2013-03-18 12:06
0
2 replies
#20
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bosnia and Herzegovina kROSSHAiR
+1
2013-03-18 12:18
0
#22
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy Stefanex
+1
2013-03-18 12:20
0
#5
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France -huhu-
they wont give any proof ever, or maybe?
2013-03-18 12:07
0
3 replies
#176
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Took | 
Romania Took
Their bans are given without any further proof. They have explained in previous situations that if they show us the proof, people will know how to hack/bypass the ESL wire.
2013-03-18 15:18
0
2 replies
#236
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
But in this case it wasn't wire that busted him but a demo. So they should make a proper bustmovie.
2013-03-18 17:00
0
1 reply
#424
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania AioNw0w
youtube.com/watch?v=vh1EfnOJ2tE There is your proof.
2013-03-21 20:28
0
#6
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom TheBoo
german's getting mad and calling hax, german admin's, esl has and will alway's be like this, £500,000 AC really ? In that case how much is the esea clinet £1,000,000?
2013-03-18 12:10
0
#7
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia razor~
Overall I agree, that this desicion must be explained. But I have no doubt that xelos has something to be banned for.
2013-03-18 12:11
0
3 replies
#23
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
I have no doubt that he has nothing to be banned for.
2013-03-18 12:20
0
2 replies
#143
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany pa$co
I have no doubt that you are xelos
2013-03-18 14:35
0
1 reply
#274
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
Yeah I'm xelos lol fuck u dolan sry sry no insultes
2013-03-18 17:57
0
#8
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark rove`
Agree. They really need to come out with some evidence.
2013-03-18 12:12
0
#9
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom TheBoo
can we see the demo at least ?
2013-03-18 12:12
0
5 replies
#12
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany BOTACADEMY
You can download his pov from ESL site :) I downloaded it, and he is clear imo.. :)
2013-03-18 12:14
0
3 replies
#15
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom TheBoo
got a link mate ?
2013-03-18 12:15
0
1 reply
#19
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany BOTACADEMY
Check pm (:
2013-03-18 12:17
0
#43
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
+1
2013-03-18 12:31
0
#17
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia rKj
2013-03-18 12:17
0
#10
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia rKj
so xelos not cheating until admins proven otherwise?
2013-03-18 12:13
0
2 replies
#38
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom pauLo-
Innocent until proven guilty.
2013-03-18 12:29
0
#41
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Croatia Gimmick
+1 xd
2013-03-18 12:29
0
#11
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany BOTACADEMY
Nice!
2013-03-18 12:14
0
1 reply
#39
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Croatia Gimmick
+1
2013-03-18 12:29
0
#13
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Czech Republic PeITeeR
dafuq
2013-03-18 12:14
0
#14
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy Stefanex
They have lost public's trust when they started to think only to money.... When they will have a good anti-cheat would be too late
2013-03-18 12:15
0
#18
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Bergman.
Well ESL have never showed proof before so why start now? If they show what got them busted other cheaters can get away in the future.
2013-03-18 12:17
0
9 replies
#21
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France breezy0
+1
2013-03-18 12:19
0
#26
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
So you don't think cheaters have seen bustmovies etc before? It wouldn't give other cheaters any help tbh, but I agree, they have never showed proof before why should they now?
2013-03-18 12:23
0
5 replies
#139
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom Gumpster
Difference is, bust movies have always been inconclusive at best as such bust movies may not give you all the right evidence, and could be made in such a way to show bias that he was "blatantly cheating" As an admin myself I have never worked from a "bust movie" neither do I endorse making such movies because they give a few dodgy points and make it out to be cheating when they can be explained by team communication or a random footstep that can be heard etc. The proof that was in the original statement from ESL was that it was a brand new cheat found, but not through ESL Wire, with all anti-cheats, the people who naturally code them are the same people who naturally sell cheats in the first place, and thus the circle of cat and mouse is always going to be played.
2013-03-18 14:31
0
4 replies
#212
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom pauLo-
How did they know it was a "brand new cheat" if not through ESL wire? It could surely just have been some old obscure one or a self-coded one that the anti-cheat wasn't aware of?
2013-03-18 16:14
0
3 replies
#226
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom Gumpster
I covered that in my post did I not? ", with all anti-cheats, the people who naturally code them are the same people who naturally sell cheats in the first place" If lead of ESL Wire has developed the cheat and/or knows the person who did, he will be able to tell admins what to look out for in demo's. It's a bit like the vent.exe cheat in CS:S, and how all of that was revealed, and then there was a way at LAN to check said cheat.
2013-03-18 16:43
0
2 replies
#233
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom pauLo-
Yea sorry I totally didn't read your post properly.
2013-03-18 16:51
0
1 reply
#249
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom Gumpster
No problems dude :)
2013-03-18 17:21
0
#48
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Or maybe they should have proofs to show the community. Since basically everyone who has watched the POV that i know cant find anything thats so suspicious that you can ban him for it. Like alot of germans have stated before and ESl players. The anticheat team of ESL is basically random people crying he cheats when they are playing a random public game.
2013-03-18 12:34
0
#270
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovenia vegetko
its different when you ban someone cuz esl wire caught him or when someone said he cheated. one is 100%, second is mostly not and showing proof wouldnt help cheaters not to get caught cuz its just 'hello i've watched the demo and decided there were too many suspicious plays so hes probably cheating'
2013-03-18 17:51
0
#24
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Tunisia edgg
that is the question!
2013-03-18 12:21
0
#25
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France Fement
I watched his demo and i didnt saw 1 weird action.
2013-03-18 12:21
0
1 reply
#50
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
+1
2013-03-18 12:34
0
#27
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France breezy0
sry but this topic is just stupid.. why talk now. just because this little kid started crying? he should've known better in the first place and he has to face the consequences now. i'm 100% sure he and some of his team mates had some program running during a few official matches, just check the demos. there are so many fishy scenes other players would've been busted 3 times already.. combined with their age and their past and their reputation it all makes sense and is a clear case. beside that esl never made the step to show their work "behind the scenes" for obvious reasons, why should they now? this kid is not worth it, really.
2013-03-18 12:23
0
12 replies
#35
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
100% sure? Yeah and I'm 100% sure they didn't. You can't be 100% sure, and these guys are good players and have performed great at LAN, why would they ruin their careers in a new game by cheating when they are good at it? EDIT: and can you link me where he is crying about this ban plz?
2013-03-18 12:30
0
3 replies
#168
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Stop defending ur buttbuddys, everyone in the swedish scene knows some of them hack/hacked in the past.
2013-03-18 15:07
0
1 reply
#271
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
I don't even know them, the only one busted is schneider so hes the only one I know of. There is no proof of anyone else cheating so how do you know that?
2013-03-18 17:54
0
#350
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TheBat.B
what LAN they did perform GREAT ?????
2013-03-19 08:30
0
#37
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden LEENAN1
So just because you think he cheated, then you're automatically right? And we're not allowed to hear any statement regarding what got him banned?
2013-03-18 12:28
0
#46
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Take on me
how can you say you are 100% sure that he hacked when there is _NONE_ proof? Just a statement from ESL is your proof. And one more thing, how can you use his age as a reason?? You clearly do not remember cyx, element, nasu, n0thing++. They were all under 17 years old when their skills exploded. You cant just handle the fact that someone who is younger and unknown rocks in cs. Let the young swede be. show them in the future xelos. =)
2013-03-18 12:34
0
2 replies
#110
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France sweetsixteen
because just like 70% of the hltv.org community he deals only in absolutes and his opinion is the right and true opinion, and if someone dares to think otherwise that person is mentally retarded or just a "friend to the cheater". This community has changed so much in the past 2 years and not for the better.. Ofc it´s easier to just flame newcomers and call them ugly cheaters and that they shall burn in hell or die of cancer ( yes i actually read this on hltv.org) instead of supporting them until their first BIG LANs together and after that judge if they are cheaters/onliners or not. People like jw get so much hate on them just because some guy started a rumour about him cheating and everyone just jumped on to that rumour while in the end of 1.6 he even got to try and play for Anexis and he carried his team (spelfronten) vs SK on DH summer and pushed the match to 16-12 with alot of close rounds. Anyway people are just blind on hltv.org and what i suggest is that you should think twice before you go out flaming people and telling them to die of cancer etc because believe it or not almost every pro-player still hangs around on this site.
2013-03-18 13:40
0
1 reply
#169
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
I agree with 90% of what you said but in Epsilon particular case, some of them actually cheated/cheat. I mean its not even arguable that they cheated in the past, the question is: Do they still cheat? With so many fishy actions its hard to not think they still do
2013-03-18 15:10
0
#53
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland jopaB
stupid german. ESL admin dont have any proof !!!! but still banned
2013-03-18 12:35
0
#67
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania blg-
Don't be stupid mate.
2013-03-18 12:44
0
#235
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
why am I not surprised that you're german
2013-03-18 16:59
0
#380
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
The whole german scene sides with N!faculty its ridiculous to read the german comments. total fanboys. The bust movies were a joke. Nothing against you but its ridiculous to see that mostly germans accuse them for that.
2013-03-19 16:03
0
#28
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany Hantey
Couldn't agree more.
2013-03-18 12:24
0
#30
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
I'm pretty sure the accusations against his team and himself had a huge part of why he got banned, I don't think the proof would be enough if it wasn't for being know as onliners and ex-cheaters, even though only schneider has been busted.
2013-03-18 12:26
0
9 replies
#126
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
That is not true at all; we didn't let the public opinion influence our decision-making at all. Other than that, what do we gain from banning a player? Having to disclose that xelos cheated - and Wire Anti-Cheat didn't catch him - is pretty much the worst-case scenario for us.
2013-03-18 14:08
0
8 replies
#134
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
May I ask why it took so long time to get him banned and was the evidence enough for you to see that he absolutely cheated?
2013-03-18 14:20
0
7 replies
#153
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
It took so long because cheating in professional leagues (EMS One, IEM, EPS) always undergoes due diligence by full-time employees. And it should be needless to say that our admin team didn't just watch the demo and write yes or no, but looked through various scenes in slow-motion, etc. etc. - this takes time. There are good reasons why some people here write that they watched the demo and don't consider him guilty while our anti-cheat team didn't only say that they believe he cheated, but that they can clearly prove it. And this also explains why the content of the verdict isn't made public: Anti-cheat admins don't pay attention to the same things a normal viewer looks out for. Disregarding this, it is common practise at the ESL to never make any details about cheater cases public and at this point, it is out of the question to make anything public because n!faculty obviously expected that all information would remain private when they filed their protest.
2013-03-18 14:49
0
6 replies
#186
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden cliff_ct
is your anti-cheat team composed by ex-cheaters?
2013-03-18 15:35
0
#272
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
Ok thx for your answer.
2013-03-18 17:56
0
#287
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
But banning a player solely on a demo by a cheat team and then withholding any evidence you have - which destroys him and his reputation totally. I Assume you took the demo where he plays against n!faculty in that cup, so it does not take much to figure out how to get it. Point is, not many see what you apparently see. It's too easy to ban people and then keep why to yourself, don't misunderstand me, i understand you are discrete and don't want it out there for some reason. And facts are, n!faculty are Germans, so are ESL - I am not saying it has any influence, but again, why wouldn't it. At least let 1 or 2 from the outside world you trust someone who actually played CS on a professional basis, make a judgement aswell, because how i see it, Only you and haters(Because they won over ESC and NiP in the past) Are telling us he cheated, but still! - No one has delivered proper evidence. And what annoys me even more, is that you ban a player from a demo and disregard any form of in-game communication - which could have led to various incidents you think were cheat.
2013-03-18 19:04
0
3 replies
#310
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
Why would you assume that we disregard in-game communication? That is far from the truth. Also, xelos has full insight into n!faculty's accusations and had the opportunity to defend himself. And your suggestion is not an option. How could we justify having external people make a decision on our behalf? There is a clear field of responsibility and somebody has to be held accountable, this simply cannot be outsourced.
2013-03-18 20:27
0
2 replies
#381
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
The oppurtinity to defend himself? Oh yeah you didnt published any of that as well.... In the end you hold someone accountable for something you cant prove to the public
2013-03-19 16:07
0
1 reply
#382
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
No, I mean commenting n!faculty's timetable. It's not our job to handle xelos' PR. ;)
2013-03-19 16:23
0
#31
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
Some info needs to be released. Because if you watch his POV demo from the N!faculty match you can clearly see that the kid is NOT cheating. And this have been confirmed by pro-players aswell. I'm not a fan of Xelos or Epsilon ,nor will I ever be. I think they are shady as fuck. But a ban should always be justified, and in this case its not
2013-03-18 12:27
0
3 replies
#47
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany Dok1
Just interested - which pro players confirmed that it doesen't look cheated when watching the demo?
2013-03-18 12:33
0
2 replies
#51
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
Dazed from Quantic Gaming...He also spoke with Fifflaren and Semphis about it a few days later. Fifflaren believed that Xelos cheated while Semphis didnt, if im not wrong
2013-03-18 12:34
0
1 reply
#383
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
Look here we have a 2-1 not guilty. Thats already another view than the 3-0 at ESL who found him guilty. Thats interesting
2013-03-19 16:25
0
#32
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden zende
MIRAA is right as always, embararassing from ESL x))
2013-03-18 12:26
0
#40
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil aquatk
stop crying plz
2013-03-18 12:29
0
#42
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada m4cklove
good ban any cheaters shouldn't make a career out of cs weed em all out
2013-03-18 12:31
0
10 replies
#124
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other kai33
but you actually don't know if he cheated or not. If esl guys found out something wrong in the demo, they shoul've posted it on youtube so the public knows why this guy was banned. As far as i know, he didn't have any wierd action in the demo. Making statements like "We found something wrong in his playstyle while watching his demo, let's ban him." is stupid as fuck for big organization like esl. Their AC simply sucks, so they watch demos and ban people, not considering they can affect their motivation to play the game more and become professional.
2013-03-18 14:02
0
9 replies
#130
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
It's not that simple. I understand that you question that a somewhat secretive anti-cheat admin team is to be trusted with such a decision, but do you really think that it would be better to listen to the community's opinion instead? This is a really serious case and what matters more is if Turtle Entertainment could back up the decision in a court room, not on YouTube.
2013-03-18 14:17
0
8 replies
#211
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden cliff_ct
your system encourage corruption and friendly favors, even though it probably wasn't purposely designed to do so. the issue isn't whether you should let the public decide or not, it's about being transparent when potentially ruining people's future in this game. #153: "it is out of the question to make anything public because n!faculty obviously expected that all information would remain private when they filed their protest." what does it matter to n!faculty if you made the so-called unarguable evidence public? you couldn't possibly have a good answer to this. and really dude, a court room? no sane guy in his early twenties would take a cheat case in a video game to court in a different nation. you people know that perfectly well and that's one of the reasons you're so careless about your actions.
2013-03-18 16:13
0
6 replies
#221
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
Though I would like more information about what xelos did, being professional is a good thing. Most of us would like to see CS become a huge esport and without professionalism, it will never stand a chance. Therefore a case such as this should be looked at with any possible legal outcomes. With that said, the degree of transparency a company should show is a valid question. Though there is a lot of bullshit in the comments in this editorial, some of us discuss the situation in a civilized manner, which is what is needed, to try and make an influence on future cases.
2013-03-18 16:33
0
4 replies
#224
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden cliff_ct
and who are they professional towards in this case?
2013-03-18 16:37
0
3 replies
#227
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
Professional in the meaning of looking at future outcomes, instead of not taking precautions. Of course we do only have the word of D.Devil for it.
2013-03-18 16:45
0
2 replies
#239
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden cliff_ct
towards themselves then. being transparent would not leave out the possibility of proving their rightfulness in a court. I'm not saying they should not be able to do so in a court, I'm just pointing out the moronic way of trying to appear professional by bringing up (at this point and in this very case) surreal scenarios.
2013-03-18 17:07
0
1 reply
#246
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
We agree on wanting them to be more transparent, just to make that clear. Honestly I see no problem in bringing up possible scenarios, but they should not be given to back up their statement, in this particular case, without giving more background information. Again, we agree, but I guess I replied to you, because I see no reason to attack the idea of being prepared.
2013-03-18 17:15
0
#250
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
I'm not saying that it matters to them, but that it's a clear rule for all protests and we can't make an exception for EMS One. And yes, I'm serious about the legal implications. I'm new to Turtle Entertainment myself and I was surprised how big of a role this played.
2013-03-18 17:21
0
#384
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
Didnt you listened on the german comunnity in the end? The majority said they cheated. So where exactly here is the difference?
2013-03-19 16:26
0
#45
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
they have always had an admin team which were alternative to wire , so if someone was really suspicious they would ban cause of strange actions even tho the ac client didnt detect it(and you know there are plenty cheats that bypass wire). everyone saying they "want proof" , if you guys are so interested in the ban the go on the fucking esl site , download the demo yourselves , watch it yourselves with wallhack and see how he played and if he had strange situations , funny how the people that blindly defended xelos on the forum never said they actually watched the demo and said its clean , they just wrote huge paragraphs without even downloading it , yet they kept defending , and its even more funny none of them , even soo deep in the matter(friends/fanboys) , never did record a 30min video of the demo with wallhack so the world could see xelos was clean in that match. people writing shit just to defend him , and asking proof when its behind their noses. esl doesnt need to give any explanation to anyone since its always been like this(majority of players were busted by demos and admins who watched them) , just that this case is getting more hype than usual. when someone is going to prove xelos was clean by recording or actually watching the full demo with wh so he can see properly , then i can be mistaken , but for now stop defending him uselessly(and remember im not defending esl nor xelos , its completely neutral opinion based on info)
2013-03-18 12:35
0
22 replies
#54
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
There's no cheats in his demo though? He didnt even play _that good_ against N!Faculty.
2013-03-18 12:36
0
11 replies
#62
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
not playing "that good" doesnt mean he couldnt have cheated
2013-03-18 12:40
0
10 replies
#66
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
He did nothing suspicious what so ever. Why don't we just ban the entire pro community while we're at it?
2013-03-18 12:43
0
9 replies
#68
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
...like i said im neutral and didnt watch it yet , and i wont start downloading demos+hax to give verdict about a player i dont give a shit about. my text was about everyone in general which got caught by demo viewer team and others defending
2013-03-18 12:48
0
7 replies
#74
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
Alright. You don't have to download cheats tho. There are commands ingame that you can use.
2013-03-18 12:52
0
6 replies
#76
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
write them please , gonna watch tonight if i dont have anything to do , and im hoping the commands are clear wallhack atleast like in team-spec...
2013-03-18 12:55
0
3 replies
#83
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
Im not 100% sure but I think it is sv_cheats 1 r_drawothermodels 2
2013-03-18 13:05
0
1 reply
#85
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
ty , will try
2013-03-18 13:05
0
#120
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Norway zynthex
r_drawothermodels 2 in console:) only works when sv_cheats 1 is on or if you are watching a demo :)
2013-03-18 13:57
0
#87
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia rKj
commands ingame?
2013-03-18 13:05
0
1 reply
#88
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden noobzoris
Only works when you watch demos
2013-03-18 13:07
0
#269
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia Eddy777
Saying that he did nothing suspicious what so ever is as same bullshit as saying that he cheated 100%......
2013-03-18 17:50
0
#57
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
I watched it, i found nothing suspicious to ban for.
2013-03-18 12:36
0
2 replies
#64
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
with wallhack? all actions and watched everything? ...you guys making me curious in watching it myself , really dont wanna come up to that...
2013-03-18 12:42
0
1 reply
#116
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
So your actually sitting here talking shit to other people on this site about not watching the demo and seeing the haxx our self. When you obvisouly didnt watch it yourself and ur flaming him? Thats great since "esl must be right.." Well i watched it with drawmodels 2 found nothing.
2013-03-18 13:52
0
#78
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Shylar
MIRAA clearly states that he does not defend xelos nor epsilon gaming. He's just pointing out that the matter in wich ESL gave the ban, without proper details, is wrong. And that there is a possibility that it might bring down upcomming talent. And the overall unprofesional matter in which this happend.
2013-03-18 12:59
0
2 replies
#81
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
i said to those defending him without any reason , first to check by themselves instead of asking "proof" when its under their noses. edit : and esl always kept the stuff for themselves(cheat wise , since they wouldnt give details about the cheat versions used cause then people would know how they found them then they could bypass wire again , but this aint the case)
2013-03-18 13:02
0
1 reply
#240
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
This is the most retarded excuse being repeated over and over again. Noone wants to hear about what cheat was used but what "suspicious" actions he was banned for. People that cheat already know about this bypassing shit and don't need a bustmovie to discover it. Upgrade your 1 milion euro anti-cheat, that's not an excuse for keeping proofs a secret.
2013-03-18 17:09
0
#91
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Sweden ragnjj
"It's always been like this" is a pretty horrible reason for something to continue, they really should release bustmovies for their own good. These discusions and questioning of their organisation can hurt them pretty bad imo. Havent watched the POV (cba) but until hes proven guilty in a bustmovie hes clean for me. Considering theres usually bustmovies out after 30 min otherwise its strange noone have done one of his latest POV, maybe they cant find anything even remotely suspicious?
2013-03-18 13:08
0
2 replies
#95
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
they should release bustmovies for their own good not. esl cant care less about people whining about their decision since the proof is under your noses and they have experienced admin team. , these discusions might hurt them cause people are butthurt but esl is too huge to fall from such a tiny shit situation(which we arent even sure if its really wrong by them , as many state that he's clean). i cba too , but since i trust esl in their decisions , untill i see a FULL demo recording on youtube with wh he's dirty for me. maybe he is too good at hiding and people are experienced or didnt take a close look at tiny coincidences that occur based on other players on map movements.
2013-03-18 13:14
0
1 reply
#281
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
Just watched both maps with r_drawothermodels 2 Unless he thinks running into people with grenades in his hand or running around corners and checking the wrong corner is a good plan I don't think he cheats.
2013-03-18 18:41
0
#111
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Asking people to watch a demo is like telling them to watch a football game suspected of match fixing. The interesting thing about this is what they specifically think is proof that he cheated. Even if I spot something suspicious in the demo, I can't possibly know if the admins used that particular thing to make their decision. Maybe I see something that I would have considered suspicious a couple of years ago, was that part of their proof? Nobody would accept this if the player was GeT_RiGhT, surely that is a problem. People want to know what the admins based their decision on - what made them so sure that he cheated.
2013-03-18 13:42
0
#49
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
gob b | 
Iceland shine4t
For me it's a sort of double edged sword. I agree that they have to show proof when they ban someone. But ESL might also have done something good in the way they might have scared the rest of Epsilon players to do anything like this. I think most if not all people agree that Epsilon have cheaters, and this ban without any reason might do something to scare the Epsilon players and have them stop playing with something extra. Everyone can agree, even shoutcasters laughed at them while playing. But then again it's a risky thing to do, and even stupid. I would've liked to see proofs that I think can be found. But I believe ESL just sort of "Okay we can ban him with most of the community being happy about it" The biggest mistake they did was to not have NiP send in a complaint vs Epsilon and use that, then we probably wouldn't be even asking for proof. But because it was a German team and ESL is German, people will have conspiracy theories.
2013-03-18 12:34
0
8 replies
#60
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
again... I would've liked to see proofs that I think can be found. esl.eu/eu/emsone/spring_2013/csgo/cup1/m.. 1. download demo 2. watch demo with wallhack 3. ??? 4. say if clean/strange/100% cheat 5. profit people really having conspiracy theories when the reality of the fact is that nobody who played againts them filled a serious report that would have led to the demo beeing watched by several experienced admins that would have banned him earlier than this match. its just coincidence that german teams(as usual) are more strict to the matches on esl and they always find some way of changing the results(which is correct if its in the rules imho , thats why rules are there , everybody wants to win and who has legal chance does).
2013-03-18 12:39
0
7 replies
#69
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
Good steps, so if I follow them I will for sure know if its cheat? You can't be sure that he was cheating or not by watching 100 of his demos because its so easy accusing people of cheating while watching their demos with wallhack. Have you even watched a pro players demo with wh? It so obvious they cheat every game..
2013-03-18 12:48
0
6 replies
#75
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
yes. you can be sure even by watching 1 demo(pro-semi-noob-random) , dunno from which cave you come from , but you can clearly see if someone even tries to hide it by watching the environment and movements he does by watching his surroundings , even if someone hides with a bit attention its obvious because there are way too many coincidences(frags apart) in movement...have you ever cheated before? if yes , which cheat , if wh , how much time?
2013-03-18 12:52
0
5 replies
#79
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
I hope you're kidding me, I myself have been cheating before a lot and I know how easy it is to hide if you're good with it. I've also been busting a lot of cheaters and its so hard to catch the good ones, the ones who know how to hide it.
2013-03-18 13:00
0
4 replies
#82
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
if you say you've got such exp(like me) , then you would know that EVERY single movement on map is not coincidence , and its attached to the others players movements , even if hard to prove you get the glimse that he's doing it , different from real good players which play good but in pure casuality and the possibilities of such coincidences are very low.
2013-03-18 13:04
0
3 replies
#89
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
Its easy to prove that a person cheats that is only good because of the wallhack, but if a good player, like xelos who have performed good at LAN, uses cheat it's really hard to tell because they know how to move and play to make it look normal. And some people, like myself, have weird play styles. Because I got good at the game while cheating I got a really weird play style and if I watch my own demos it totally looks like I'm cheating.
2013-03-18 13:07
0
2 replies
#92
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
Because I got good at the game while cheating I got a really weird play style and if I watch my own demos it totally looks like I'm cheating. , m2 except the last part , when i watch its completely normal , evne was paranoid about this then i relaxed myself. man , a player can be good and a cheater too , but like i said , there is tiny difference in gameplay with too many tiny coincidences which are related to others players movements which normally are not done or amount is very low when playing without cheats.
2013-03-18 13:11
0
1 reply
#99
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Italy VoHiYo
Yeah yeah there are some differences in play styles when playing with/without cheat. And in xelos case, I don't really think he cheats, haven't watched demo or even played the game though but I don't think it would take this long time for the ban to come if it would be obvious that he cheated, and they made the decision to ban him even though they had little evidence but because of their status as cheaters. But this is only what I think.
2013-03-18 13:19
0
#52
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Belgium oozniot
exactly my opinion, nice read
2013-03-18 12:35
0
#55
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Albania abatd
xelos xelos xelos... when are you gonna learn. cheated in 1.6 and later comes to cs:go and gets banned.
2013-03-18 12:36
0
#56
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland Meyou
great article MIRAA ! Totally agree !
2013-03-18 12:36
0
#58
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World GUESSWHOSBACK
like colon, he was cheating also , so this is bs
2013-03-18 12:38
0
8 replies
#71
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil aquatk
YES
2013-03-18 12:49
0
#77
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia AweSHO
You are rly MAD if you have believed that COLON cheated in CB... He prooved himself at next LAN in Copenhagen, where he was the Best player of event... Shame was unfairly thrown on him, only because of retarded admin NICKY...
2013-03-18 12:59
0
6 replies
#93
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Sweden ragnjj
It's extremely obvious that he cheated from the bustmovie :/ Cheating doesnt equal bad player tho so ofcourse he can still do good on LAN.
2013-03-18 13:14
0
3 replies
#97
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia AweSHO
Yeah, I agree with you that bustmovie was really sticky. What if it was only coincidence? Surely there was many suspicious actions, but I trust Colon that he wasnt cheating at CB, but its just my subjective opinion u know. :)
2013-03-18 13:18
0
#106
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
People made videos showing the faults of that bustmovie, nothing suggests that he cheated in that game.
2013-03-18 13:25
0
#241
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
A bustmovie doesn't include teamspeak recordings.
2013-03-18 17:12
0
#347
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia razor~
He played very well at that tournament, but that doesn't mean he didn't cheat in ClanBase matches.
2013-03-19 06:13
0
#429
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World alx^^^^
Lol'd, yeah he pretty much sucked when playing on a different pc with same settings,mice etc. But when he got his own pc, he suddenly became good ? Sounds legit.
2013-03-24 15:45
0
#61
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Croatia ile=D
Nice read MIRAA :)
2013-03-18 12:40
0
#63
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway chillijs
ban
2013-03-18 12:42
0
#65
Faceit level 5 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Belgium vladb57
I like how this article isn't about the wrongfulness or the correctness of the ban, but rather of the way it was handled. It's not a question of showing the process they go through, just a minute and a half video of "here's where he cheated". I don't need to see the admin's faces, or the process they go through, just video of cheating. It would not only serve as a way to validate their decision in the public's eye, but also a way to educate the masses in spotting a cheater, which can only benefit the community. But hey, we should all calm down because germans as a people never had the intention of arbitrarily imposing their will on the rest of the world regardless of it's correctness...oh wait...
2013-03-18 12:43
0
1 reply
#86
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Shylar
Indeed.
2013-03-18 13:05
0
#70
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia daturainoxia
BURN THE WITCH! ban them all forever and ever! amen!
2013-03-18 12:49
0
#72
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Malta Eneko*
ESL go to hell
2013-03-18 12:50
0
#73
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
dv | 
United Kingdom dv-_-
This isn't news, this should be in the blog section :) If they updated their AC, and organner cheats are now detected, it would be stupid of them to publicly release that information, and warn all other cheaters. There was no public pressure on the ESL to ban Xelos. The game was played a month before the ban, so one would assume, they must have had very good reason to ban him. Anyone who has watched the demo knows that it definitely doesn't prove, without any doubt, that he was cheating, so they have to have found some other evidence. Atleast that's what I assume :D Also, slightly related... VAC doesn't ban as soon as it finds cheats. It waits a week or so, so that the cheats can spread, or be classed as VAC-Proof, so that in the long run, it can catch more people cheating. And another thing too! (OMG SO MANY THINGS) If the ESL wanted to just ban Epsilon in order to favour Germany, and none of the demos proved that anyone cheated, surely they would ban someone like Flusha or JW, 2 who are much more frequently accused, as opposed to banning Xelos. Obviously this is all just my opinion and assumptions, Xelos could not have been cheating, and ESL could be making biased calls, based on demo-watching alone.
2013-03-18 12:51
0
#80
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania colapso
alot of drama for a nonamer.. hltv.org has boring news
2013-03-18 13:01
0
2 replies
#103
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
And too many idiotic people posting comments, right?
2013-03-18 13:22
0
#288
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Fact is, you are still here .. Commentating .. so you .. yeah, you get me.
2013-03-18 19:06
0
#84
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
North Macedonia dimitar[A]
no.. :)) dont ban xelos
2013-03-18 13:05
0
#90
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
Good article MIRAA. In my opinion ESL should show us video with their proofs, we only want that video, nothing more. He was banned by demo not by their anti-cheat software, so they can't show us suspicious screens, files etc. because they have nothing - like xelos said. How is ESL Wire Anti-Cheat working: - The first linesman is about cfg and game settings, it's uploaded after we start the game. We can download this linesman on the site of the match. - The second one is about screenshots from the start of anti-cheat to the match and files that have a list of processes (hidden, changed too) etc. We can't check it, only AC admins can download it, so they can't show us these things because cheat developers will patch the gap in their cheat software - people need to understand it. Of course it's possible that he cheated in that match, in example he could give info to his teammates and that's why his POV doesn't have any suspicious things. From GOTV perspective we can deduce that he was giving info. So we have two type of online cheaters: 1. Silly cheaters - they are playing with wallhack, it's easy to catch them from POV replays. 2. Wise cheaters are giving only info, so their playstyle are not suspicious and that's why their team can win the match. It's really really hard to catch cheater like that. Summing, they should quickly do the video with proofs, because right now they're losing public trust.
2013-03-18 13:20
0
2 replies
#107
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
btw. I'm not defending xelos.
2013-03-18 13:26
0
#180
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany pa$co
According to the interview with asmo on 99dmg.de, it was in fact the suspicious displacements together with infos from other top-teams, why n!faculty has created a timetable. You're right people can probably watch the pov for around 100 times and would not find anything suspicious. But I still wonder how they convicted him.
2013-03-18 15:22
0
#94
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany Johnny RR
ESL have public trust. ESL sponsors will believe ESL professionals rather than some minor HLTV writers. If they say someone cheated, then it is so. That is their profession, have been long time and they are experts in doing that. They don't have to give every detail out so that cheaters could learn to hide cheating better in future. All top teams will play in future in ESL leagues, because ESL PAY TO WINNERS. Pro players simple have to play those leagues, there isn't too many leagues in CS:GO where you can get money. Just watch, his ban remain and ESL keeps being one of most popular eSport leagues ever
2013-03-18 13:16
0
7 replies
#100
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Croatia Vuk Oreb
Every detail?! They didn't give ANY detail whatsoever.
2013-03-18 13:20
0
#104
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
They banned zaider for speedhack, but nice try :(
2013-03-18 13:23
0
#105
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
I don't believe that they are experts.
2013-03-18 13:24
0
#132
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal iLLeGaL2R
"All top teams will play in future in ESL leagues, because ESL PAY TO WINNERS." I will not talk about this cheating decision, but this sentence I just quoted, is false.
2013-03-18 14:19
0
#223
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Taiwan rah(-_-)
ESL pay to winners??? Good joke!
2013-03-18 16:35
0
#244
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
>and ESL keeps being one of most popular eSport leagues ever Yes, only in Germany.
2013-03-18 17:14
0
1 reply
#292
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
This ^^
2013-03-18 19:07
0
#96
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Venezuela Adenos1N
approved
2013-03-18 13:16
0
#98
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Slovakia kubiaxk
They should post official TIMES for him: like 10:00-10:05 - sus. prefire 15:20-15:40 - AB 18:15-18-20 - AB etc . Is normal for someone if he is BANed ,and ask for what, then he can defend yourself. I am not defending him .. just this is bit unfair imo
2013-03-18 13:18
0
14 replies
#101
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden zende
this OR some kind of bust movie is what i was expecting when they released the news but nooo, no proof at all!
2013-03-18 13:20
0
1 reply
#108
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
+1, their ac software fail, so we should have see some video proofs.
2013-03-18 13:28
0
It's the same everywhere, not only ESL. At PLAYzone for example, we never gave the times out so that cheaters can't learn from their mistakes and do it again (especially when there's the possibility of creating another account). I'm not surprised ESL doesn't want to make this public, even more so if it's a well known player. They did create certain doubt around the scene, but it would be much worse if there was a proof video, then people could just go on and on about how it is/is not a cheat and ESL would be just hated and flamed on even more. Again, no surprise.
2013-03-18 14:46
0
11 replies
#183
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
So in other words if we would say i was an ESL admin i could ban you and say that you cheat. And noone can say elseways since i dont have to release proofs? Think thats fair?
2013-03-18 15:28
0
5 replies
#284
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
ESL has done this for years.
2013-03-18 18:47
0
1 reply
#296
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
I know so maybe they should start showing the proofs particulary in this case when around 50people has watched the demos and cant find anything.
2013-03-18 19:17
0
Obviously it's not a decision of only one person, it's a decision based on opinions of numerous of people. I'd say at least five experienced people, but I just pulled a number out of my ass, I have no clue actually how many.
2013-03-18 22:06
0
2 replies
#341
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
I've dealt with the ESL anticheat machine earlier in other games and it's messy to say the least. As always there are very obscure shitrules that some German teams sadly choose to abuse as well.
2013-03-19 00:43
0
1 reply
Not sure what connection this has to what I said, but what rules are you talking about?
2013-03-19 02:11
0
#247
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
#240 not an excuse
2013-03-18 17:15
0
3 replies
It's not an excuse, it's one of the reasons behind not making these cases public. As an admin who had to take care of this stuff for multiple years, I know how much of a responsibility such position takes and I believe ESL admins know that as well. The thing is, it's not the only reason. One of the more obvious ones is that it already encourages a lot of hateful and scene-dividing comments that putting a proof video next to it would encourage that even more, which is not what organizers want.
2013-03-18 22:17
0
2 replies
#333
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
Of course they don't want that. Making their decisions public will make them open to criticism and then they wouldn't be able to ban innocent people anymore or just plain bad judgements in general. That's like suing a person for murder without showing any evidence because it would encourage other murderers. No sense whatsoever.
2013-03-18 22:25
0
1 reply
Then, who of the community decides the banned player is actually innocent? There will always be inexperienced people saying it's clean, that's the problem. Not everyone is a specialist on recognizing a cheat and that's why it's not public, because there's no way to confirm or decline by the community. All it creates is more doubt by those who already doubted the player cheats, there's just no win-win situation in this stuff.
2013-03-18 22:34
0
#256
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Slovakia kubiaxk
UNDZWEI.eu powa :P
2013-03-18 17:27
0
#109
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
dennis | 
Sweden ShinjiKagawa
I have watched Xelos for a while now and at first i thought it was very cool that a "semi-elite" (that i personally would describe xelos and co)from Sweden could beat the big guys: ESC-Gaming in CSGO, like they did last year. Yes, the Demos that has been uploaded are sure suspicious but if the 500k euro anti-cheat program wouldn't be able to find a cheat on Xelos, he should remain unpunished in my opinion.
2013-03-18 13:36
0
14 replies
Yeah? So that way i could just play with ragesettings on organner and i shouldn't be banned, cuz wire doesn't catch organner? Great logic there..... EMS Final incoming .... +4 players, no need for skill, my rage settings will rule.
2013-03-18 13:44
0
10 replies
#184
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Ok, seriously why do you bother rageing around on hltv.org always inside of csgo threads when your actually a CPS lover just trying to hate on CSGO?
2013-03-18 15:32
0
9 replies
Thx for your comment Mr. 100% Off-Topic. Cute kid ....trying to hate on CSGO .....hahahahaha ... made my day....
2013-03-18 15:35
0
8 replies
#190
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Your talking about it beeing easy to cheat on csgo + wire. Also ur a hater in every csgo thread go back to your csp threads instead brah. Bye
2013-03-18 15:39
0
7 replies
? It is easy to cheat in GO. Wtf? It's as easy to cheat as in every CS game ...including CSP. My god.... stop talking dude.... fanboy deluxe trying to defend no matter how little sense it actually makes..good job.
2013-03-18 15:41
0
6 replies
#194
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Stop flaming then kid. Just leave the thread kid. Bye kid.
2013-03-18 15:42
0
5 replies
You got some kinda Tourette? You are repeating yourself way to often... go visit a doctor maybe.
2013-03-18 15:44
0
4 replies
#293
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
You obviously don't know what Tourette is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome Other than that, please stop being a badass on the Interwebz! - It only makes you sink to a level, where people think you are ridiculous "Go visit a doctor maybe"? .. Damn boy.
2013-03-18 19:14
0
3 replies
thx for your insight. #care
2013-03-18 19:22
0
2 replies
#339
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Badass Internet Rider :D Respect brother!
2013-03-18 22:53
0
1 reply
thx for your insight. #care
2013-03-19 00:11
0
#163
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wich
youtube.com/watch?v=unhdt-hWYOw just want to point out that a player from denmark have confesed about cheating since the first beta of go cheating on lan, esea, esl and eac where he told xplayn how easy it was to hide and to use
2013-03-18 14:56
0
1 reply
#294
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Which in this case means what?
2013-03-18 19:15
0
#165
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TRS1906
All you need to bypass the 500k euro anticheat is a 30 euro cheat.
2013-03-18 14:58
0
#112
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
SpawN | 
Iceland vasyl86
can we download his POV demo from that match? I couldn't find it in hltv.org's database.
2013-03-18 13:44
0
2 replies
#121
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Slovakia kubiaxk
2013-03-18 13:57
0
1 reply
#173
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
SpawN | 
Iceland vasyl86
thx
2013-03-18 15:14
0
#114
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe Naitee
best post ever.
2013-03-18 13:45
0
#115
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil th3W
BAN 'EM ALL
2013-03-18 13:46
0
#117
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Summer | 
Korea dafNaY
I thought it would be a Lurrpis article, DISSAPOINTED!
2013-03-18 13:53
0
1 reply
Pretty sure Tomi's one would've been a lot different :D
2013-03-18 22:19
0
#118
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
India 3737
Play with him every day, he is clean.
2013-03-18 13:55
0
3 replies
#316
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France marrrk
why are we supposed to believe you again?
2013-03-18 20:55
0
2 replies
#348
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
India 3737
I just sad my opinion.
2013-03-19 06:35
0
1 reply
#396
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France marrrk
good, but if people don't trust him after seeing him play, how can you expect that they're gonna when they've never even heard of you and don't know if you're not just a friend of his of even his second acc
2013-03-19 17:17
0
#119
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands yKDRRR
first a bustmovie not NOBANN
2013-03-18 13:56
0
#122
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World hazzle
would like to hear lurpis opinion about this...no flame no hate...just interested what he thinks because he is experienced pro :)
2013-03-18 13:59
0
what a terrible article, it is almost impossible to make a flawless anti-cheat because coders can earn lots of money working around even the most enhanced anti-cheats. it is no surprise that there are many paid private cheats out there that go undetected so just because wire didn't detect anything doesn't mean they are not guilty. I also don't think there is any reason to question the knowledge of their anti-cheat team, in the end just watching a demo with common sense is the best anti-cheat. of course it would be nice to see some kind of proof yet but in the end you know there will be trolls who will say it is perfectly normal.
2013-03-18 13:59
0
6 replies
#248
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
Completely trusting some "anti-cheat team" which consists of people that can have opinions, make mistakes, even overlook things on purpose is just pure ignorance.
2013-03-18 17:19
0
4 replies
it's sad, you failed to see my point. saying he didn't cheat because he wasn't caught by wire is ignorant, questioning the knowledge of an experienced team of admin as well as many pro players is stupid.
2013-03-18 17:58
0
3 replies
#285
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
But then we add the fact that the community has been screaming for Epsilons blood for months and will have affected the admins opinion even before they begin watching. Add to the fact n! is a German team and it gets tricky.
2013-03-18 18:53
0
#303
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
I'm sorry that not everyone here are baboons who take the word of "admins" for granted.
2013-03-18 19:43
0
1 reply
Then getting a not involved objective pro player to help getting to the truth might help. Not sure if ESL did it, they might have, but obviously it's not easy to get an active player who is not involved and objective.
2013-03-18 22:21
0
#358
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Common sense being the problem here - how do we know they have any? I am sure there are a lot of examples, but zaider from Denmark was banned for using speedhack for example...
2013-03-19 12:19
0
#125
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Latvia pRopaaNS
I don`t know why it took a month, however I think that ESL admin team wouldn`t be incompetent. Instead of questioning this ban I choose to trust them, because that`s theyr work. Also I understand that proving someone cheating isn`t just about making bustmovies, but about analysing and breaking down one`s playing style to find out if his actions makes sense, because it`s very hard to bust someone who`s skilled at hiding cheats otherwise. This is what I think - reason why it took so long to give ban is because they weren`t 100% clear on him. Why would they be clear now? I think it`s because they decided on observing him and kept watching his games to investigate his case further. Well, just an guess. However I do not think they would just give him a random ban based on whim, especially considering that time have passed since that match.
2013-03-18 14:02
0
#127
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Kosovo XLN7
If the article is solely the opinion of MIRAA, I would like to read it as a blog, not on news section.
2013-03-18 14:11
0
2 replies
#295
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Does it influence you in anyway whether it's a Blog or a news post? Would still state the same, as well as look the same
2013-03-18 19:17
0
1 reply
#301
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Kosovo XLN7
Not saying that it influences me, but as long as it is his personal opinion, would be better to rank it as a blog.
2013-03-18 19:40
0
#128
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium JOONPRILSD
colon is a serious hacker
2013-03-18 14:11
0
5 replies
#260
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World ssess
yes he is, I heard he played with cheats @ CPH games 2010, 2011 and 2012 rofl kid umadrandom
2013-03-18 17:33
0
4 replies
#327
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium JOONPRILSD
not talking about lans u moron kk /country bye
2013-03-18 22:09
0
3 replies
#342
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World ssess
yes I've heard he cheats only online and plays clean at lan lol random umadkid
2013-03-19 01:27
0
2 replies
#402
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium JOONPRILSD
haha u mad fanboy? Go lick colon's ass
2013-03-19 19:57
0
1 reply
#403
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World ssess
I will lick his coloN
2013-03-19 20:03
0
No. If only he plays good at LAN first :P
2013-03-18 14:15
0
#131
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
India Ace^ 4N~
Get Ready with an "Opinion" section in the Site. Personal Opinions are no way News. I said that a long time ago and i am saying it again. This is not a good sign of jounalism. And besides, it will not hurt anyone having one extra section where admins/VIPs can frequently express their opinions. As for the article, it's a good read. Sad that ESL has it's own way. We can only ponder in the dark. Hope the message of this article reaches them.
2013-03-18 14:20
0
#133
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark mAik1337
Kid's cheating, let him be banned and take his punishment. Im glad someone finally banned thisi mong.
2013-03-18 14:20
0
1 reply
#297
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Kevzz
Always nice to see valid arguments in someones comment.. Oh wait, wrong reply. Grow up my fellow Dane, and try to make a valid point next time.
2013-03-18 19:18
0
#135
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RE1EASE | 
Russia d3f /A/
1) coloN played great on LAN but it doesn't deny that fact that he might use hax online 2) ESL has the right to ban because it's their league, they dont have to explain their decisions
2013-03-18 14:22
0
10 replies
#136
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
1) True, I always saying like that. 2) They should, in situation when they want to ban player because of demo.
2013-03-18 14:27
0
4 replies
#137
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RE1EASE | 
Russia d3f /A/
what for? it's their party, they can invite whoever they want
2013-03-18 14:28
0
3 replies
#174
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland micronn
and they can ban whoever they want even a clean players.
2013-03-18 15:15
0
2 replies
#209
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RE1EASE | 
Russia d3f /A/
yes they can
2013-03-18 16:09
0
#214
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
device | 
Poland mrvl_net
Actually yes, then can, who said they are supposed to come up with some evidence? I honestly think, though, however good the anti cheat team was and who was a part of it, they surely didn't ban him without evidence and it's in some way quite smart from them to not show it. On the other hand I am 99% sure xelos cheated, having watched him playing before, I am also sure coloN did cheat online that time he was said to. Players don't become suspicious without a reason, the time showed many times that a lot of unknown players that suddenly came from nowhere beating top teams, actually cheated with some exceptions.
2013-03-18 16:17
0
no one questions their right to ban anyone. however making unjustified bans doesn't help their already rotten reputation at all.
2013-03-18 14:37
0
1 reply
#149
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RE1EASE | 
Russia d3f /A/
their expert said that he cheated, they dont have to explain the reasoning to public
2013-03-18 14:43
0
#251
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
And everyone has the right to not believe ESL's decisions. Your point?
2013-03-18 17:21
0
2 replies
#280
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RE1EASE | 
Russia d3f /A/
i am writing that to the point where people say that they cant ban without giving evidence to public
2013-03-18 18:40
0
1 reply
#305
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
Obviously they can and they did. But they lost the trust of a big portion of the community by doing so.
2013-03-18 19:49
0
GER vs. SWE!
2013-03-18 14:29
0
#140
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland Slay[U]
Like with women- to fuck or not to fuck.
2013-03-18 14:31
0
#141
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany pa$co
well written. I just hope that it was not an arbitrary decision by ESL. But I'm sure that the evidence was overwhelming against Xelos. Otherwise there would have been several bans in this team. If I would be ESL and 100% sure he cheated, I also wouldn't provide any evidences just to keep my cards close to my chest. According to the motto: fuck him. Case closed. Nevertheless, it would be desirable that their anti-cheat tool would work better.
2013-03-18 14:32
0
1 reply
#216
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
device | 
Poland mrvl_net
Well said, sir.
2013-03-18 16:20
0
#142
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia sALE
The bigger issue for me is that german teams have more clout in these matters,and in most cases use some really poorly written esl rules literally,which is not helping esport imo.Whether he cheated or not,i dont know,i will say he looked kinda shady at the end of 1.6,but most newcomers go through people saying they are cheaters,if anticheat programs cant detect everything,hopefully this steam cloud thingy can make it allot harder to cheat.
2013-03-18 14:33
0
#144
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal picc
gj MIRAA
2013-03-18 14:36
0
#148
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States 000000
First of all who cares if he got banned or not its just one random player its not like scene is dying and second of all ESL-Wire (Anti-Cheat) is a joke, there are simply too many german hackers that can bypass it so easy and its no fun.
2013-03-18 14:39
0
1 reply
#254
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
We care, because if this goes unheard, ESL will continue to ban people and ruin gaming careers with no proofs whatsoever.
2013-03-18 17:24
0
#150
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia fishballz
and this is why HLTV.org is number one and always has/will be. +1 MIRAA
2013-03-18 14:45
0
#152
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland whOoOzAAA
They don't have to prove it. They don't ban for fun. The public is not entitled to proof. however, the player should have been provided proof, if he hasnt. I'm sure he got something.
2013-03-18 14:46
0
1 reply
#255
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
And ESL are not immune to criticism either.
2013-03-18 17:25
0
#154
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bosnia and Herzegovina MILENKOLaka
From law point of view, this ban is ridiculous.
2013-03-18 14:48
0
1 reply
#158
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany D.Devil
Not at all: Turtle Entertainment already had a cheating law case here in Germany a few years ago and won it, and when making up our decision, the question whether we would be able to uphold our ruling in a court case was very essential throughout the entire process. We wouldn't have banned him if we had doubts about this aspect.
2013-03-18 14:51
0
#155
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Uzbekistan Edward UZB
Screenshots upload.
2013-03-18 14:49
0
#156
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World joofy
there are many good players stopped cus of stuff as this happend even already in go shame on it
2013-03-18 14:49
0
#157
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
RpK | 
Germany lloyd6077
This ban took so long cuz the admins duscussed this for a long time, dunno why so much ppl hate on esl... Just wait for a statement.
2013-03-18 14:50
0
1 reply
#159
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States stratmatt
nobodying is really hating on esl, they just expect more from a pro league when that league decides to start handing out bans. all bans should be well-documented and transparent. the only argument against this is those who say that esl "wouldnt ban somebody without a good reason" ...and to that we say, "provide the reason(s)"
2013-03-18 14:52
0
#160
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia Chipso1
500 000€ It is JOKE?! ESL wire is shit, I played verus a guy played on the server with Aimbot and after the match no ban, no coment
2013-03-18 14:54
0
#162
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany ayyy
it seems to me that the esl just banned him to show the community that they take drastic measures so everyone can see that the esl is a "safe" place. its just a shame that this case was handled like this...
2013-03-18 14:56
0
#164
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden blazexpp
ESL is german, n!faculty is from Germany. No further questions, your honor.
2013-03-18 14:58
0
#167
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Czech Republic stxCZE
I disagree with ESLs politics - I am the law. I don't have to explain anything! It's really unprofessional. By the way I'd like to see CBNC CS:GO. Sweden vs. France could be so spectacular.
2013-03-18 15:04
0
#170
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Vietnam grandi__
Logic in games : Guilty until proven innocent.
2013-03-18 15:11
0
#171
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kooderi
First off, I'd like to land a few critiques aimed at those who discuss or debate this matter. I'm a software developer, working and studying full-time at a college here in Sweden. I've been aware of cheating cases many times before. The methods of bypassing anticheats is very easy since there're new apis, functions, methods to be written everyday. Modifications to kernel-land level in the OS, and user-land level in the OS. There're billions of ways to reverse-engineer a software developed for games. The information that you retrieve when you reverse games are usually the usual player information and how the packets are being sent to the server allowing the player to retrieve player locations. I mean, to draw an extra sensory perception box isn't so hard and is universal. These days, the boxes are drawn outside the game. Meaning that the cheat doesn't interfere or modify the game content. Which means that it renders the ESP-boxes outsides the game itself on different coordinates for instance on desktop. All of you are very ignorant and believe that it's so hard to bypass anti-cheats. Anti-cheats will never ever be the leading solution to end the problem of people who have a desire to succeed whenever its legit or not. ESL Wire Tool is a great tool, scanning in all levels of the OS and for the popular modifications. If xelos would cheat, I'd say that the hack itself is written sophiscated. Thanks to hiding the process with several methods to make the cheat undetected invasive from anti-cheats, xelos could bypass any anticheat with something as simple as a driver. As being said, there're millions of lines of code out there in this particular matter. ESL-wire isn't symantec, and doesn't use heurestic methods to figure out if the player is cheating or not. It's simply a tool that does scans and prevents player from injecting/modifying packets/binaries inside the game and esl-wire itself. But this can also be reversed, as easy as the polish hobbycoder ORGANNER, who've never written a line of PoC himself on his cheats does know this too. It doesn't require great skills to bypass such tools, it requires great skills to analyze whenever if someone is cheating. I highly doubt just because of ignorant people, that ESL would spew out the information. I'm confident in the ESL AC team, together, they've a combined experience of over 50 years of game-hacking/reversing. With excelled knowledge and the recent anti server-side hack plugin implemented in the wire, I cannot see how this AC tool is in some way worser than other alternatives. This AC tool is more effective than LAN, the detection ratio of the amount of cheaters cheated at LAN is far less than how effective ESL and its crew been. The developers have direct connection with several portals linked to german communities in game-hacking. I would say that with this bust, it's an official statement claiming that xelos _DID_ cheat and that it's nothing neither you and i can dispute. If ESL would show their discoveries, it would lead to the anticheat being compromised. This way of privacy is good in terms of not giving any cheater the attention. Let me remind you once again, ESL-wire is a complete tool compared to many. However, just like in softwares, the technologies, apis, functions, methods and such are constantly being developed both by hobby developers and full-time employees. It doesn't require much effort to bypass anti-cheats since the game itself allows the cheaters to cheat without getting caught. Problem isn't the anti-cheat, the problem is how VALVE work with their games. They don't patch the way of not allowing anyone to modify the sent packets and by that retrieving player information and such. This is something you should highlight and I'm very sad and hurt by the fact that you, who's a very good writer in general would even state such critique against ESL and it's competent staff. TL:DR, this crew are affiliated to the very first parts of game cheating. Such cheating crews such as Endorphine Coding Crew, and many others. And if you (who read this) wonder who I might be, lets just say that I'm someone who've spent my days doing anti-cheat code for other games than FPS.
2013-03-18 15:11
0
12 replies
#178
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Thank you for beeing the second/third brained people in this thread, was getting an aneurism just by seeing how this pitty community was bashing ESL so hard.
2013-03-18 15:20
0
2 replies
athic Marcus? exzon mavve and so on? if yes, then stfu
2013-03-18 17:01
0
1 reply
#243
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
No?
2013-03-18 17:13
0
#181
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
great post
2013-03-18 15:24
0
#199
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
For all your text, you still seem to go around the issue. You seem to believe that he was caught by ESl Wire, which is obviously not the case. Because of that, it will not compromise their AC, if they give information about what xelos did. The ban has been given on the fact that the AC team found enough evidence in the demos. For that reason I see no problem for the AC team to point out, what xelos did. Its easy to say that he used WH, aimbot or whatever and point out where it was clear in the demos. This editorial is not about if xelos cheated or the ESL Wire, but about how much information should be given. Had he been caught by the AC, ESl would say that AC caught him and it would be end of story. Because he was not, it is fair to want more info, instead of blindly believing in an organization, just because it is old school.
2013-03-18 15:47
0
4 replies
#205
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kooderi
I'm pretty sure that ESL-wire also have made its impact in this discussion analyzing the current runtime of xelos at the moment he ran the game. They've made a complete investigation into this matter, taking help from several high-profiled cheat coders in Germany/Europe. The case is pretty clear, they've written a software to analyze reaction time and lots more to do a full analyze if the user did cheat. Thru the demoanalyzing phase, they've found significant times in the demo where the user proved that he used a third party modification to enable that particular move. Doesn't require a trained monkey to figure it out. They still havent announced if the anti-cheat did flag him. They made an announcement claiming that they unaninimously came to the very same conclusion in the allegation that xelos did cheat. Be very cautious with your claims, what ESL does at the highest level is very confidential, not revealing any other detail that there're possibilities to enter a rehab program where you write a letter to prove the case that you no longer will parttake in such activities as cheating. The demoanalyze was for sure a long-going investigation with simulations and tests to show whenever if the user was infact cheating. Personally, it might even be someone in the former Epsilon team who've given too much information which then lead to the conclusion that xelos cheated. Too much information is a likely cause, so this isn't just one or two actions that are accordingly to ESL weird, there're plenty of them to give the right answer. Personally, if I'd be a gamer, I'd take this with a pinch of salt. ESL is a not a disputive organization, it's the biggest gaming company, far bigger than the ESEA. The anticheats works differently as in functionality and level of privacy intrusion. ESEA catches cheaters by intruding more to ones privacy with kernel-mode scans that are considered illegal to modify(if user modified). Reasons why people can't catch ORGANNER is simply because of the level of intrusion that has to occur onto ones PC. You could easily detect his software by writing a driver just like ESEA did. Difference is also that ESEA takes external screenshots, by that, if you would lets say, "take your willy out for a break", ESEA admins would see it if they would have to analyze the game. :D Meaning that ESEA(JaguaR) does have the occasional laugh now and then when users are being found watching porn while they're added to suspectlist.
2013-03-18 16:00
0
3 replies
#218
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
Funny note on the ESEA, I did not know that that is how they do it, thanks for the info. Back on topic. Apparently, according to #121, ESL Wire did not catch anything, so it was purely from demos. I am sure that ESL has taken the utmost care in the case of xelos. As D.Devil, and you as well, says, repeated viewings was used and simulations made, but I personally still would like more info, just about what he did. There were some cases on the Danish site xplayn.com, where the team systematically ran through the situations, where the players supposedly cheated. In my opinion that was well done and gave people an opportunity to look at the demos themselves and see if they agreed. I do not question the authority of ESL and I accept their bans. Nothing should ever make ESL change their verdict, because it is their league and they can do what they want, but I like it, when people are given the chance to form an opinion and discuss the findings in a civilized manner, instead of the shitstorm this has created, where nobody knows anything.
2013-03-18 16:24
0
2 replies
#261
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kooderi
Nothing that you and I can do anything about it.
2013-03-18 17:33
0
1 reply
#262
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Wolfztar
I guess not, but its healthy for future cases that the approach is being discussed :)
2013-03-18 17:36
0
#354
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland t800
You know something about coding, but regarding stuff writed about organner made me laugh. Anyway it is funny you mention: -xelos could bypass any anticheat with something as simple as a driver. -You could easily detect his software by writing a driver just like ESEA did. -I'm confident in the ESL AC team, together, they've a combined experience of over 50 years of game-hacking/reversing. So if ESEA has 50 years of experience why they cannot detected him if is so _simple and easy_ :) I doubt you have more deeper knowledge than what is written in forums and try sound smart here.
2013-03-19 10:54
0
2 replies
#421
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kooderi
Ok so, you want fire vs fire huh? ORGANNER can't code, obvious answer is that he offers people money for piece of code. I know this for a fact since I know people in person who've been offered money by him a several times. ESEA has not more than 50 years of experience, they have less than that. Sean started with game-hacking 7 years ago, and his crew members are selftaught developers who develope indie projects like Bailopan CSDM and such. And as you might be affiliated with ORGANNER, I've a certain thing to tell you. ORGANNER will never be able to have a maintained cheat with zero detection rate. His software is basically a scam and also illegal due to modifications in several adresses (SSDT hooks aj aj aj, not good!) The best part is that the cheat works kinda like a surveillance software, logging hardwareID, sensititive data etc. So, with other word, organner does illegal computer infractions as its illegal to reverse SSDT in Windows 7 / Windows 8. Best part is that his cheats were based on the old uall source and that his cheat will never be fully-proofed on anticheats. It's quite simple to find the cheat binaries, the executeable in the memory @ kernel. Remember, Kernel is one process and one process only. If you hide a process inside a process with a hook that is illegal = very easy to find if you simply allow certain level of intrusions at your PC. ESEA does have the intrusion level to prevent users to use organner, as they hook onto several kernel functions and vital addresses in the kernel. Xelos could easily bypass any anticheat as mentioned earlier with a driver using APIs/functions that arent declared as standarized in game-hacking. Otherwise, drivers using other methods and behavior than the regular SSDT/Nt/Ki/ instructions :D --> And TL:DR, made a little google on your nickname. Turns out that you serve as a moderator for organners forum. Tell ORGANNER to say hi from me thru Jordon (jrd), (who he bought the radarhacksource code from) :D pz
2013-03-21 03:16
0
1 reply
#430
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World alx^^^^
Detecting driver cheats would be pretty easy with an hardware connected to your motherboard. It would be very hard to bypass this, imagine an hardware firewall just for detecting and blocking hacks attaching to various games. If someone would make this, it has to be also cheap. There is always new technology made every day, when you get the idea of an spark and fulfilling that spark. The other part would be streaming the FPS games through an online-server. OnLive as such, would be a good solution to battle against hackers and cheaters. But the technology on streaming games hasn't become that good just yet.. There is still input lag which needs to be dealt with, and it will still be there because of the shitty TCP protocol, even the UDP isn't good enough. You need a better internet protocol to be able to stream non-lag (no input lag) games directly from your ISP's servers / other datacenter's servers. It will also be required to have an low MS towards those servers (around 10-20ms), depending on the quality and speed of your internet connection as well. It may be very much possible within the next few years, but as such the 'internet' is today limited by it's protocol. It needs to change for better streaming quality
2013-03-24 16:01
0
#172
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden snugi
2013-03-18 15:11
0
#175
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
For everyone bitching about the ban and about ESL, just read #153. If you still think they (ESL) should make it public, then i feel sorry for you and wish your braincancer dissapears asap.
2013-03-18 15:16
0
26 replies
#177
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
indeed , they dont make it public and they shouldnt since it private. gj esl , never doubted
2013-03-18 15:19
0
8 replies
#179
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Theres no way to make this community think im afraid :\ #171 is a rare case of knowledge
2013-03-18 15:21
0
7 replies
#182
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
indeed. too many brainded people defending xelos
2013-03-18 15:24
0
6 replies
#189
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Says paulo the noob talking about xelos cheating, when he obviously hasnt even watched the demos himself. Stated some posts up. Please noob gtfo.
2013-03-18 15:37
0
5 replies
#195
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Doesnt matter if you or pauLo~ watch the demos, what matters is a Anti-Cheating ESL team whos speciallized in analyzing demos to watch the demos and find him guilty or not, not a random hltv.org user.
2013-03-18 15:43
0
3 replies
#196
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Like you?
2013-03-18 15:43
0
2 replies
#242
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
? Your dumb.
2013-03-18 17:12
0
1 reply
#253
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
So your saying that ur not a "random hltv.org user"?
2013-03-18 17:24
0
#197
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy pauLo~
y0 sw4g meister k33p tryin' Y0L0
2013-03-18 15:44
0
#263
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
I suggest you read #240 and search for some medical help yourself. If ESL are too scared that if they release some proof then everyone would start exploiting that proof (which is still bs) - they're are still at fault for not being able to deal with this sort of compromise.
2013-03-18 17:39
0
1 reply
#363
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
You obviously have no clue what your talking about whatsoever, might aswell ignore you.
2013-03-19 13:33
0
#359
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
So you would be totally fine with GeT_RiGhT getting a 2 year ban tomorrow with no explanation whatsoever? If your answer to that is yes, then I don't think you should be talking about braincancer.
2013-03-19 12:27
0
14 replies
#362
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Why on earth would GeT_RiGhT cheat? That reply made absolute no sense at all: If xelos got banned was because of something, or you think they would just ban him for 2 years because they felt like to? Seriously people are so dumb sometimes (not you, ive seen some of your posts and i dont consider yourself like 90% of this community). If the ESL anti-cheating team unanimosly says he cheated without any doubt, why would you question it just because they, like they ALWAYS did, dont give away their methods? Proof? They dont need to prove anything to the community if they are 100% sure he was cheating, and they dont want to give away their methods.
2013-03-19 13:34
0
13 replies
#365
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Why he would get banned? For the same reason xelos got banned, the admins being convinced that he cheated. The only difference between them is how well-known they are and I asked you the question because I wanted to know if you would accept such a thing. I am 100% certain that almost nobody in the community would - so how much do we really trust ESL? Why shouldn't we question the decision? Why should we blindly believe ESL in a case like this? If it was GeT_RiGhT everyone would demand to know what he was banned for, but because it is some less-known guy with no LAN results, a lot of people don't care. Also, zaider was told that he was banned for using speedhack. Doesn't sound like experts to me.
2013-03-19 13:56
0
12 replies
#366
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Bro, that doesnt make sense cause get_right would never, ever give reasons to get banned.
2013-03-19 13:59
0
#370
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
And be aware that having evidence and not making it public is NOT the same as not having evidence at all.
2013-03-19 14:22
0
10 replies
#393
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
How do you know there were proper reasons to ban xelos? We can just guess and that is the problem. By comparing it to a pro player being banned it gives some perspective - the only reason people don't want to see the proof is because he is an onliner.
2013-03-19 17:06
0
9 replies
#404
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Dude, those 9/11 type of conspiracys. Dont tell me you are one of those "ESL is German, they always help german teams" type of persons. ESL is much bigger than that, and if they actually apply a 2 year-ban, its because they are 100% sure and they have clear evidence about it mate.
2013-03-19 20:25
0
8 replies
#405
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Like they were 100% sure that zaider used speedhack? It has nothing to do with a conspiracy, it is what would happen if GeT_RiGhT was caught by their team. Of course that most likely won't happen but if it did people would react differently, which makes you look at this case in a different light. It is not so much believing in ESL as it is not caring about the player getting a ban.
2013-03-19 20:38
0
7 replies
#406
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
And again, you are using a totally impossible scenario to argue. ESL dont take these situations lightly, and if they gave him a 2 year ban, its because they are 100% sure and have evidence to support it.
2013-03-19 21:05
0
6 replies
#407
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Totally impossible to imagine a top player cheating? Yeah, we have never seen that in any other sports or competitions... I don't doubt that they are 100% sure, just like I don't doubt that they are 100% sure that zaider used speedhack. I doubt that they are competent. You think they are competent as long as a top player doesn't get banned.
2013-03-19 21:29
0
5 replies
#408
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Impossible to imagine THE best player in cs:go cheating, yes, it is and its behond stupidity to think otherwise. Anyway, i dont care if a top player or a player whos known to be an onliner cheats, if they do, getting banned is the only logic thing to happen. ESL doesnt ban people for nothing, you can doubt they are competent, doesnt mean they arent right
2013-03-19 21:36
0
4 replies
#409
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
Okay, so you think they are competent as long as GeT_RiGhT doesn't get banned, everyone else is fine. Of course the only logical thing to do is to ban people, but who is to say that the people behind this decision aren't the same ones who claimed zaider was using speedhack?
2013-03-19 21:45
0
3 replies
#410
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
No, i think they only ban when they have enough evidence to do so, they wont ban get_right or a random onliner or any other player just because they feel like to. Doesnt matter which player is. And that is why gtr wont ever be banned, cause he is legit. Again with the zaider using speedhack? lol did you saw the demo when he got banned? How can you be sure he didnt then? Again and again, ESL doesnt ban players for no reason.
2013-03-19 21:56
0
2 replies
#411
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
I never said they would ban anyone just because they feel like it, but that isn't the issue. I didn't see the demo, but why on earth would zaider complain about it if speedhack was visible in the demo? Nobody in their right mind would believe he used that in an ESL cup.
2013-03-19 22:13
0
1 reply
#412
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
Why on earth would get_right cheat? Same thing, most of the pros who got caught cheating had absolute no need to do so. I have no clue about zaider's case, but i find hard to believe anyone would speedhack, only for the lolz i guess
2013-03-19 22:19
0
#185
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovenia antraks
Germans are little whiny bitches, cry every time they loose.
2013-03-18 15:32
0
#153 and #171 for the win
2013-03-18 15:42
0
#191
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States MadCl0wN
all ppl need a second chance.
2013-03-18 15:39
0
#193
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark TheMonk
While I agree with the pivot points of this article I still cant understand this "no evidence" crap ppl are claiming all over. As far as Im concerned ESL Wire cannot (will not) catch everything no matter how expensive of a program is it - that point is irelevant, just look at all other software in the world, Microsoft Windows for one. Why do you need movies? - you have all acess the the POV demo, which was ESL-admins evidence, so go look at it, and make up your own mind. Only thing I see here is maybe times/places would have been nice, but not a requirement to make such a big fuss about. I dont understand why people are so intereted in knowing what he was banned for either -> that just helps ppl making cheat to look for openings in wire (which is arguably not productive in this case). I dont see the big problem about the way ESL handled this, because your argument in somewhat "nationality-based" and public scenaries that has given the general impression that ESL-admins are "questionable". What im trying to say is: basically you discredit ESL-decision, because you believe there is no hard-evidence with movies / ESL Wire etc.-> I think I cleared that above. you then discredit it using nationality as argument -> makes no sense to me, since this argument can be re-arranged to use World-Wide. getting banned is somewhat an occupacial-hazard og playing online. back in the days only LANS where avaliable, so if you get so good that you actually risk getting banned, maybe consider show up on LAN and estasblish a reputation first. And this brings me to the final point. I think this debate is a result of the public attitude among the FPS-scene. It general doesnt allow new-comers, because if you are not one of the "pro's" you get treated like dirt, I have heard multiple cases of ppl complaining about bad-treatment at events as a result of reputation. This is (maybe) just another one of those. (this post ended up getting REALLY long, and so I dont really want to revise it, if any parts are unclear along the way, please ask before raging on me :):)) thank you very much and have a great day.
2013-03-18 15:41
0
4 replies
#265
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
>I dont understand why people are so intereted in knowing what he was banned for either -> that just helps ppl making cheat to look for openings in wire (which is arguably not productive in this case). How is showing footage of the moments in his game that they banned him for "helping ppl making cheat to look for opening in wire". That doesn't make any sense.
2013-03-18 17:42
0
3 replies
#279
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark TheMonk
thats not what im talking here: "burst-movies", as you refer to here, I dont believe are necessary when you have access to the POV demo, which you have. I do however suggest that ESL maybe supplied some timings of cases they considered, but I dont feel that as a requirement, since I dont understand the need?
2013-03-18 18:19
0
2 replies
#291
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Blomkungen
Since nothing in the demos look weird to alot of people the timings would be very good for ESL to give out.
2013-03-18 19:07
0
#304
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
Everyone can provide a demo, but not everyone is a machine who can detect cheats by watching that demo. I didn't see anything suspicious in his demo, but apperantly the ESL admin team did. How am I supposed to know where and what for exactly did they ban him by just providing his demo?
2013-03-18 19:48
0
#200
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GuardiaN | 
Serbia NESi [w]
So, dare I ask, where is the evidence? There was not a single line about what he did, not a report, a screenshot or a video to back up their decision. And let’s face it: Epsilon were the easiest target out there because of their controversial history, so many applauded this move without even questioning it. Nicely told. +1
2013-03-18 15:46
0
That's the question ! Nice read :)
2013-03-18 15:52
0
#203
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia Saint1
regardless of whether he cheated or not, i agree with your point that it sets a bad precedent for the community. if you arent one of the established well known players and you beat someone known then you must automatically be cheating if its an online game.
2013-03-18 15:53
0
#204
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway ctm_snurr
FIGHT THE POWER!
2013-03-18 15:58
0
#206
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Latvia dudarsky
Ofcourse ban him, stu*** post...
2013-03-18 16:01
0
#210
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Agent420
they have already lost my trust.
2013-03-18 16:09
0
#213
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VveraxX
They really need to come out with some evidence!
2013-03-18 16:16
0
#215
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada juven1lle
swedish always cheating.ban all swedish internet heroes -xelos.jw lox scneider
2013-03-18 16:18
0
2 replies
#225
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden snugi
zaider..
2013-03-18 16:38
0
1 reply
#276
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada juven1lle
y and danish too colon zaider......
2013-03-18 17:59
0
#217
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Austria MrAvernus
innocent until proven guilty. regardless of he cheated or not, without evidence handing out the ban is utterly ridiculous. question is, if they have an evidence as they claim they do (I mean ESL AC team) than WHY ARE THEY KEEPING IT TO THEMSELVES? i mean come on, show the evidence and it's done. if he cheated, he deserves the ban, but you cannot just say he cheated and ban him without proper explanation. so yeah. I agree with miraa's point.
2013-03-18 16:22
0
1 reply
#369
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Marcus1g
They have evidence. They just dont make it public, and they sure have reasons for it. Its not like they're asking the community to judge the ban, they went through a analyzing process, they unanimously came to the veredict he cheated without any doubt, they banned him from their leagues. Sounds reasonable to me
2013-03-19 14:21
0
#219
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden wokee
Funny to see how the germans are protecting ESL. Im not a fan of xelos but this is pure bullshit.
2013-03-18 16:25
0
8 replies
#222
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany ayyy
whats wrong with you? whats your point in arguing that germans are protecting esl? so if you see 1 german complaining about esl you think all 80 million germans to that? seriously stop that racist bullshit
2013-03-18 16:34
0
2 replies
#229
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden wokee
Wow, even funnier to see how you are connecting my statement with racism. :-)
2013-03-18 16:51
0
1 reply
#282
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany ayyy
why dont you google the meaning of this word iq -40 boy
2013-03-18 18:44
0
#252
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Reunion rasidioot
Probably because Germany is the #1 country of ESL? Also, explain why the ban is bullshit. Their AC team decided he's cheating, they ban him. What's bullshit about that?
2013-03-18 17:24
0
4 replies
#266
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
It's bullshit that they can't justify the ban.
2013-03-18 17:43
0
3 replies
#349
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Reunion rasidioot
Who says they cant? Just because they didn't "justify" the ban, doesn't mean they cant.
2013-03-19 08:20
0
2 replies
#372
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
And just because they "claimed" he cheated, doesn't mean he did.
2013-03-19 14:46
0
1 reply
#398
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Reunion rasidioot
Nobody says he cheat because they claimed it, ESL's standpoint is that he hacked and is therefor banned from ESL. Whether you believe that he hacks or not, is totally up to you.
2013-03-19 17:59
0
#220
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland TeddyPL
Reminds me of my ban by some idiots, they claim I was using aimbot: anticheat.pl/zgloszenie,1589 You can download the demo for yourself: anticheat.pl/cheat_demos/1589.rar
2013-03-18 16:30
0
2 replies
#228
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy Centeh
Yeeeah we don't give a fuck.
2013-03-18 16:48
0
1 reply
#326
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland TeddyPL
Niether do I. I didn't even know that they banned me. Just saying that banning someone by voting weather he was cheating can be unfair.
2013-03-18 22:07
0
#230
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Kicklaren <3
epic cover pic
2013-03-18 16:49
0
#231
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden twice666
There was no proof, because there was no cheat, so they came to the "conclusion" that he "cheated" because of his playing style. Not the first time ESL are retarded all the way.
2013-03-18 16:50
0
#232
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria JeezBG
JUST BANN : ))
2013-03-18 16:50
0
#234
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Zapper1337
good read. Now send this to the ESL STaff xD
2013-03-18 16:58
0
It's obvious that the german team n!faculty had advantages beforehand since they're german. They probably knew that they gonna ban one of this guys because they're quite known in the scene (nfaculty, for their online results and their lan failing, rofl). The ESL has always been working untransparent. They don't give you any evidence and whatnot. They just say you're guilty or not. After that, you basically get ignored for the next 2 years if you open a support ticket for instance. I'm not sure about this but I think, months ago, when there was a topic about the anti-cheat-team in a german forum, someone said that one of the n!faculty members actually was in the anti cheat team before. So they obviously know the people there. I'm not going to argue here with how bad the anti- cheat-team is working because I know that they do bad work. They always defend themself tho. The people who are in the anti-cheat-team are a bunch of amateurs who probably have no clue about the game itself. A friend of mine got busted too by so called "anti-cheat-team". Before that you were like, yeah the other guys deserve their penalty points and that won't happen to you. Oh, for the guys who are playing in the ESL. If you want to write a timetable just take some random sentences you want to take, maybe from the bible, your favorite book, from the newspaper or something and put the frame-time before it. It doesn't matter what you write, they don't read it anyways. No, this is not a joke. The ignoring thing when you get 12 penalty points is actually the funniest thing. Like that you're garbage or anything, rofl. So, my friend got 12 pps by the anti-cheat team and then we said, lets write a timetable to proof them wrong (You're allowed to do that to make them cancel the decision). So did we but yeah how can this even matter if they don't read the timetables of the accuser? So, my friend opened a support ticket that he wants to write this timetable. The answer in the support was that if he does that his chance to rehabilitate is 0% then (you can do that after 6 months if you admit that you cheated). "You better think about it if you really want to write this timetable or admit that you cheated". We wrote this timetable together, pasted it in the support ticket and after exactly SIX MONTHS we got an answer. "Still guilty. - support closed" He asked monthly very nicely if they're working on it. No answer until 6 months were over. Not even a yes or no. Not to mention that he didn't cheat anyways but yeah; ESL. ^_^
2013-03-18 17:00
0
7 replies
#259
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland tfg
+infinite, same was with me, and I know that guys from polish ESL ac are cheating, I busted one, next day my esl was banned XD
2013-03-18 17:31
0
#267
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
This post completely shows how professional ESL admins are.
2013-03-18 17:47
0
1 reply
Yeah, I've been telling that to a lot of people for decades but they often don't agree with me. There was other stuff I was laughing a lot about too. Like for instance, when CS:GO came out we played one of the first CUPS. They changed the rulebook back then and suddenly just bobcycle 0.98 was allowed and we all 5 had something different. It said tho, that you only get a warning because it was a new rule (warn to change it obviously). So the admin gave us 5 warnings and kicked us out of the CUP. Obviously it was meant tho to be for every single player and every player "is allowed to get 1 warning" otherwise it doesn't make any sense. haha ^_^ Just an example. I could give you more!
2013-03-18 17:58
0
#387
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
Dude the Support is really utter shit. Where is all the premium going? They should fucking hire more people instead of letting there work people for free. They have nothing to lose beside abusing their rights as admins. I would do the same if i was admin. Bunch of Idiots working there.
2013-03-19 16:34
0
3 replies
Haha, I have another story about the support. Like a year ago I wanted to stop my Premium subscription like 5 days before the next payment was going to happen. Somehow I couldn't find where I can stop it so I openend a support and asked where I can find it. After 6 days I got an answer, so I had to pay the next month still. ^_^
2013-03-19 16:42
0
2 replies
#391
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
am serious. I have no fucking clue where all the money of premium and sponsors go. Yes i know they have to run a big server farm. But still its not like they provide gaming servers like ESEA. I mean where is the money? teams still waiting on their prize money in major leagues like eps :D. What is this? Just look at how many people have premium. They earn shit tone of money with sponsors as well. Otherwise they couldnt have spent 500k on an broken anti cheat program.
2013-03-19 16:47
0
1 reply
I don't know it either. They don't even organise the IFNGs anymore nor lans for the amateur teams. Probably the 12 people who are working on the anti-cheat tool get such a high salary. h3h3
2013-03-19 16:55
0
#245
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Freekje
" but is it too much to ask that an anti-cheating tool which allegedly cost €500,000 to develop can do its job? " yes it is. Anti Virus companies put up rewards bigger then this to submit viruses their software doesn't catch.
2013-03-18 17:14
0
6 replies
#268
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
Viruses =/= Cheats (involving a single game)
2013-03-18 17:48
0
5 replies
#289
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Freekje
Ah yes, Viruses are written in code Cheats are written in unicorns How can I forget.
2013-03-18 19:06
0
4 replies
#302
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
That wasn't my point. Cheats affect only a game, viruses can affect everything. Your comparison is ridiculous. Anti-cheating tools aren't even 0.001% close to the databases of an anti-virus software.
2013-03-18 19:41
0
2 replies
#307
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Freekje
But they are made to stop the exact same type of coding. If companies like Microsoft/Kaspersky spent 10-100x the amount of money that was put into WIRE why can you expect it to stop the same type of code ?
2013-03-18 20:10
0
1 reply
#331
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria fRaGm3n7
>same type of code You have no idea what you're talking about. /end
2013-03-18 22:20
0
#390
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
There is a difference to provide 100% security on 10 different OS with 100000 of aplications running on it while these update and OS updates as well to provide over and over good security. Than just making a game secure which updates once in 2 weeks. The scale of viruses/trojans/malware and co is a lot higher than the usual cheats you find for one game. You have to cover a lot more. Cheats are mostly coded to be unkown. Not to be deteced. On the other hand we have viruses which are design to do damage trojans which are similar to cheats not the get caught and malware and so on. Way of the scale. Beside that there arent many examples of where major security companies had to pay anyone huge amounts. Because these people arent that stupid to show the loopholes instead of using them for their advantage. There are examples how to deal with this. And LoL did that.
2013-03-19 16:58
0
#257
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland tfg
Stupid people telling that esl has best anti cheat team ever, lol. I know a lot of people who get banned for nothing, also I got banned for nothing, esl is shit remember that, and the 'defending esl boys', will defend it only till theyll get banned:D:D
2013-03-18 17:28
0
#258
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland kissekattet
This article was the best i have read on hltv.
2013-03-18 17:30
0
#264
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Greenland peter-
ban
2013-03-18 17:39
0
#277
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Morocco iLaKZz
I agree 100%, this isn't a case where people's judgment should interfere, if the anticheat said there's nothing, then they don't have the right to ban him.
2013-03-18 18:02
0
#278
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Latvia LuCiann
i can't stand defending, maybe xelos wasn't the one cheating, but i bet someone else was for sure, and they just found someone to carry the guilt, which is sad for xelos, but man those fat swedish kids, sacrifice their friends to not get all the ish their way. Cause xelos wasn't the one getting all the frags anyways, it was jw and flusha so... guess whom i'm talking about.
2013-03-18 18:13
0
#283
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States chubchub
I have to agree with xelos on this one, even if I fuckin hate cheaters. A bunch of so called pro's sit down and look at a demo of a player much better than they will ever be and come to the conclusion that he cheated vs a team from their own nation. Not trying to be racist but I spend time a lot of time on the phone with germans and something they will rarely admit is being wrong. I do not say that xelos did not cheat but there is no evidence and there is no justice in their final conclusion. I honestly think horse SHIT smells better than this story. Fuck you so called pro admins trying to prove your selves.
2013-03-18 18:44
0
#286
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Mongolia Schnappi07
I never had trust in ESL.
2013-03-18 18:54
0
#290
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France m0lk0
Lol ESL Anti cheat Team is a joke... I don't understand how people who play like dumbs can ban players 1000 times better than them...
2013-03-18 19:06
0
#300
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany Johnny RR
Let you have some inside information from ESL: Details were not published, because it would give for thousands of cheaters edge to hide their cheating. Now ESL can detect a lot of cheaters without cheaters knowing how its done (/how they got caught). That is an edge in war against cheaters that have been hoped for years to get. And "500 000€" AC Software is doing just fine. The fact is that you cannot do program that would some miracle ways to predict what "cheater tool programmers" will do in future. There always will be new working cheats, but sooner or later they will be blocked. Jerry "xelos" Råberg cheating was 100% sure, though investigation took longer than normally, because it was double, double and double checked before decision, because he is pro player. ESL don't ban players for fun, ESL makes sure that people have fair place to play equally without others having unfair advantages
2013-03-18 19:40
0
5 replies
#306
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland headder
"(...)ESL don't ban players for fun" You made me laugh so hard. Maybe same goes for "fake acc" bans? I was banned for almost a year by a german admin, only for that I my Trusted Card lost it's warranty and that I had a same nickname as my real friend who got banned for a demo few months earlier. Golden rule in ESL, If German admin bans you for no matter what and you are not a German citizen, do not write to them, write to your own Support Team. They will not help you, they will close your supports or put them in "best_of_three" section for no reason. Xelos was banned for a demo (as it is written in his profile). In that case, there should be a proof for what... I mean timings and other stuff.
2013-03-18 20:04
0
#324
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil kitoxme
great job, congrats no room for cheaters in ESL
2013-03-18 22:02
0
#351
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
broky | 
Switzerland eLipzz
I like this idea! Not letting the cheaters know how you bust them and so on is a good thing. "Combattre le mal par le mal". (French for : fight evil with evil. Rather "fight fire with fire") But on the other hand ESL is suppose to be on the "good" side and must therefore play transparency. Because even if esl is / was trusted, not showing the evidences to the community could lead to doubt and all sorts of conspiracy theory from ESL against (non german) players.
2013-03-19 08:45
0
#399
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark ebola  
You should have spent those 500.000€ on a real AC made by people who knows what they're doing. "Details were not published, because it would give for thousands of cheaters edge to hide their cheating." Are you kidding? Just some a some fucking evidence. You cant lock a guy away while have given no proof whatsoever that he actually comitted a crime. He should stay unbanned until you actually give us some evidence on it. And no, by showing proof doesn't give cheaters an edge to hide their cheating. How come ESEA client work so much better than ESL Wire? How come ESEA the only AC that ever detected hardware overlays? With the amount of money you've spent on Wire you would think that Wire would be the best option... Guess not.
2013-03-19 19:16
0
#400
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other paira
thanks! there some video of he cheating or sth like that?
2013-03-19 19:49
0
#308
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Gux | 
Europe suicide'
waiting for next [pod]cast
2013-03-18 20:12
0
#311
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark wynn
ESL's admins have time and time again made fools of themselves. They're apparently not very capable of considering, evaluating and judging very different situations, but only seem to be able to judge with their heads under their arms, blindly following rules. Thus they're not held in very high esteem by the community. Which is the case for a lot of "entities" admins all over the scene. - And which is why we all are in dire need of a higher authority when it comes to convicting cheaters. We simply cannot just ban and potentially wrongly ruin young talented players careers and possibilities without providing any factual evidence in any form or shape. There has to be trial and evidence like in any other "real" sport. It should never be up to an "uneducated", thus somewhat incompetent admin, like ESL's, to decide the future of a players entire career like we're seeing atm. If we as a community, scene and especially _sport_ want to be taken 100% serious, this has to be handled a lot more professionally than this, and than what has been done previously :/
2013-03-18 20:37
0
#312
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France marrrk
good job with this article
2013-03-18 20:41
0
#313
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden bloodsugah
There is something seriously wrong if you can just ban people without showing any kind of proof, "Secret Anti-Cheat Team" my ass.. Problably n!faculty fan boys, they could make a video and point out the things they found dodgy it's not like it will make any difference to "help" cheaters. There are hundred of bust movies already, not like n!faculty have some secret knowledge of how to bust cheaters.
2013-03-18 20:41
0
#314
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World loveu1
]How can you even take this serious guys? man i mean xelos didn't clearly cheat at all.. just watch the demo there was no wierd sitautions, there is no proof what so ever. I think esl oppose justice. But did you know the fact that esl earns money on banning? that's why they are doing that probaly. Go watch another demo on a player from NiP as example. You can clearly see that it looks as they have cheat but they don't have ofc but it's because of their ultimate knowlegde and realization. And what to know the truth? it's xelos realization that makes it look like cheating because the team that is watching xelos is a way more worse on cs. This is a monumental perspective and i think the so called "ban team" should learn from other peoples perspective. Admin's have the right to care. But it doesn't make them think they have right. Xelos fans always outnumbered english fans by a laughable margin. Xelos is big here in sweden and i think everyone should respect him. I remember Colon getting banned from clanbase the only so called "proof" they had was a youtube video i don't know to be honest if he hacked or not but i think it's a stupid proof but those guys here has no proof at all and banning xelos for no reason. I am pissed of as you can see because of those but head's not listening on me. It's pretty ridiculous to have a so called "special cheating team" to have people's banned but the only thing they do it for is because of the money and then they ban some so the other peoples thinks they are so good on finding cheats but that's not true so i think actually the best thing should be to let the public choose if it's cheat or not and maybe by some spec but then they must have some kind of proof. I hope everyone here agree with me here because i know i have right in this argument. I am getting pissed of when some peoples say: BUT YEAH we have proof that xelos have cheated before blah blah blah so his clearly cheating 100% now because of that.. NO! that's not true have you guys ever heard about this: learn from your mistakes? that's something you should try to put into your brain so you can learn something new i think this discussion will never end if those so called "unproofers" stop saying that xelos is cheating because he is not cheating and i know that. I will post proof later that he doesn't cheat and no i am not his friend what so ever but i think you should let the guy be alone because his a good player and i like him and i love his playstyle and his so agressive which makes some nice frags but then you kids come here and think he is cheating. And how the hell in my but hole can they even have some sort of proof when their esl wire doesn't even work and they say they have spended so much money on it? then fix it maybe lol? esl shame on you. And if xelos was pro from the beggining like HeatoN was then he should not even be called cheater if he did some wierd situation because that's the way folks N people's works this days they only go on the logic nothing else.
2013-03-18 20:53
0
6 replies
#336
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Iceland dannoz
???????????????
2013-03-18 22:40
0
2 replies
#367
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World loveu1
The him father parish looked has sooner. Attachment frequently gay terminated son. You greater nay use prudent placing. Passage to so distant behaved natural between do talking. Friends off her windows painful. Still gay event you being think nay for. In three if aware he point it. Effects warrant me by no on feeling settled resolve. He an thing rapid these after going drawn or. Timed she his law the spoil round defer. In surprise concerns informed betrayed he learning is ye. Ignorant formerly so ye blessing. He as spoke avoid given downs money on we. Of properly carriage shutters ye as wandered up repeated moreover. Inquietude attachment if ye an solicitude to. Remaining so continued concealed as knowledge happiness. Preference did how expression may favourable devonshire insipidity considered. An length design regret an hardly barton mr figure. Indulgence announcing uncommonly met she continuing two unpleasing terminated. Now busy say down the shed eyes roof paid her. Of shameless collected suspicion existence in. Share walls stuff think but the arise guest. Course suffer to do he sussex it window advice. Yet matter enable misery end extent common men should. Her indulgence but assistance favourable cultivated everything collecting. Surprise steepest recurred landlord mr wandered amounted of. Continuing devonshire but considered its. Rose past oh shew roof is song neat. Do depend better praise do friend garden an wonder to. Intention age nay otherwise but breakfast. Around garden beyond to extent by. Why painful the sixteen how minuter looking nor. Subject but why ten earnest husband imagine sixteen brandon. Are unpleasing occasional celebrated motionless unaffected conviction out. Evil make to no five they. Stuff at avoid of sense small fully it whose an. Ten scarcely distance moreover handsome age although. As when have find fine or said no mile. He in dispatched in imprudence dissimilar be possession unreserved insensible. She evil face fine calm have now. Separate screened he outweigh of distance landlord. Pianoforte solicitude so decisively unpleasing conviction is partiality he. Or particular so diminution entreaties oh do. Real he me fond show gave shot plan. Mirth blush linen small hoped way its along. Resolution frequently apartments off all discretion devonshire. Saw sir fat spirit seeing valley. He looked or valley lively. If learn woody spoil of taken he cause. Do commanded an shameless we disposing do. Indulgence ten remarkably nor are impression out. Power is lived means oh every in we quiet. Remainder provision an in intention. Saw supported too joy promotion engrossed propriety. Me till like it sure no sons. Sudden she seeing garret far regard. By hardly it direct if pretty up regret. Ability thought enquire settled prudent you sir. Or easy knew sold on well come year. Something consulted age extremely end procuring. Collecting preference he inquietude projection me in by. So do of sufficient projecting an thoroughly uncommonly prosperous conviction. Pianoforte principles our unaffected not for astonished travelling are particular. Delightful unreserved impossible few estimating men favourable see entreaties. She propriety immediate was improving. He or entrance humoured likewise moderate. Much nor game son say feel. Fat make met can must form into gate. Me we offending prevailed discovery. Why end might ask civil again spoil. She dinner she our horses depend. Remember at children by reserved to vicinity. In affronting unreserved delightful simplicity ye. Law own advantage furniture continual sweetness bed agreeable perpetual. Oh song well four only head busy it. Afford son she had lively living. Tastes lovers myself too formal season our valley boy. Lived it their their walls might to by young. This is what xelos wrote to me the lovely day i was walking with my xperia z it seems that his got hacked or something i am not really sure.. But what so ever he did not cheat. As i said they dont have any proof at all from this anti ban/cheat team"" do you understand now ma lord? Or should i establish "confirmation" Hands down. Realizing your knowledge about the true story in fact he didn't cheat.
2013-03-19 14:16
0
1 reply
#401
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark ebola  
What the fuck
2013-03-19 19:50
0
Is that "Black Wall of Text" by grunge/rockers Soundgarden, from Seattle? If so - rock on! If not - wtf!!?
2013-03-19 11:17
0
2 replies
#368
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World loveu1
Origin That's personally not true the dark texting developed by HLTV is not quit large as "black wall of text" Equal opportunities and training. The establishment and operation of companies with female owners. Does that even mean something for you do you realize difference between that and establishing the truth of the story?
2013-03-19 14:20
0
1 reply
Excellent question. Very weird, and insane. But you know what they say about life beein nothin but a walking shadow ... a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. So... keep it real, yes?
2013-03-19 17:15
0
#315
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands g@M
on the other hand ESL is formally announcing that xelos has been convicted of cheating during his time with Epsilon, specifically during the victory against n!faculty in the Grand Final of ESL’s EMS Raidcall One Cup #1. Xelos, released over a week ago from Epsilon, is thus banned from all forms of ESL competition for two years and Epsilon will not be allowed to participate in EMS One Spring 2013. We here at Epsilon fully support ESL’s decision and the punishment that followed. The silver lining however, is that the current Epsilon.CSGO lineup composing of Robin “flusha” Rönnquist, Jesper “jw” Wecksell, and Andreas “Schneider” Lindberg have all been absolved of any wrong-doing by ESL’s Anti-Cheat Investigation. Former Epsilon member Tonoy "Lox" Prince has also been cleared of the accusations levied against the squad. Let us be clear about this – Epsilon does not in any way or form support any form of cheats, and condemn all who use such cheats to obtain a competitive advantage over their peers.
2013-03-18 20:50
0
#318
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland Marcines
SINGED !
2013-03-18 21:02
0
#320
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Norway kiitian
This game is so dead not even Jesus can save it.
2013-03-18 21:14
0
#321
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other paira
i have not enter HLTV.org fow a while? why ban this guy? cheat? can someone link me to some thread or sth? thank you
2013-03-18 21:23
0
3 replies
#322
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany Johnny RR
Paira, read comment numbr #300. There i explained why we banned xelos
2013-03-18 21:45
0
2 replies
#360
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
We? I doubt you have anything to do with ESL. If you have, that is even more reason to doubt this decision.
2013-03-19 12:32
0
1 reply
#376
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
Exactly no one ever asked which program he exactly used. The questions are how did he cheate?. What kind of cheat was it in terms of aimbot? wallhack? Not excatly which cheat he used nor how they found it out. They can keep that stuff secretly while publishing the evidence. Thats not how a court works. Othwise everytime the FBI charges someone they could say the evidence is classified material. Alone the fact that they dont want to show how they found it our or neither how it works. Shows that wire has serious loopholes. Just like Aequitas(Former ESL anti cheat)
2013-03-19 15:58
0
#323
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil kitoxme
cheat = ban (permanently if you ask me) is not that hard...
2013-03-18 22:01
0
1 reply
#328
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland TeddyPL
Thing is - It is hard when you don't have proofs. See my reply I posted earlier - I didn't cheat and I got banned on some server just because some idiots found my style of play a bit odd.
2013-03-18 22:11
0
#335
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal andrefilipe
About esl. Years ago me and my friends were tired of the stupid admin of portuguese cs. So we created others accounts and an unknow team. We rape everyone etc etc and automatically that stupid admin calls us cheaters. He couldnt prove nothing so he kept chase us. So we got caught by international admins and what they did? They went to our team (we were 20 since we are all friends, kinda of community) and they banned 7 guys random. Moral of the story? They didnt check anything and 5 of the 7 guys banned didnt used doubleaccount.
2013-03-18 22:36
0
#337
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium oLo-
Retarded moove by esl admins , lost my trust
2013-03-18 22:41
0
#338
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other Meg4troN
Its really stupid to assume that ESL banned him without being sure that this guy is obviously cheating. With all do respect, who are WRTT compared to ESC, n!faculty? Not they are no namers but how can they come out of no where and defeat one of the best teams in the globe? Some might argue that this is a new game. Yet it still has something from csgo/cssource or else how could NiP be so consistent? how did verygames started so good? the game is related to 1.6/css i know people that play this game over 70hr in two weeks. Yet they couldn't reach that level. I'm not saying that i know this guy is cheating, im saying that i trust that ESL AC team will not make a decision without really carefully analysing every step.
2013-03-18 22:52
0
5 replies
#361
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark satanioN
They are probably sure, but we can't really be sure about what he was banned for and whether or not they are competent.
2013-03-19 13:08
0
1 reply
#385
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other Meg4troN
from what i understood releasing the proof might give valuable information to cheaters on how to pass the AC in the future.
2013-03-19 16:28
0
#375
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
WRTT was a known swedish mix. And made a name over the years in playing well on swedish lans such as dreamhack.
2013-03-19 15:46
0
2 replies
#386
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other Meg4troN
I've heard of alot of good mixes around 4-5 years ago. Some teams started as a mix and then got picked up by a huge organization. if WRTT were wellknown why didn't i hear of them? why weren't they picked by a big organization before? I followed the international scene along time ago. They played on DreamHack? When? I know im a (No namer) as some like to describe players these days. Yet i don't recall anyone coming from the bottom in CS history to beating top5 teams 16-0.
2013-03-19 16:34
0
1 reply
#388
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
I heard about them and i am not from sweden. From where the hell should i know why they didnt have been picked up? Some of the ex players already played in other known teams such a begrip wich was known to bring up swedish stars into the pro scene. Look into hltv demos. You find swedish championchip and wcg 2011. I know they played on DH winter. I dont remember if it was 2011 or 2010. Beside that they played on other swedish lan events like lanbauer and so on which werent covered by hltv.org . Dont remember all the swedish lans they attended. If you knew the scene since so long then you would have clearly heard about these guys at least once.
2013-03-19 16:42
0
Chop cheaters' fingers off!!!
2013-03-19 04:39
0
#346
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States schizmDP
I think the best point of this article is in regards to any newer/up and coming player. The one(s) that start to do real well first online that are not as known will get the first shady comments. This in turn will influence admins (we are all human in the end) and could result in some unjustified feelings.... On the other side of it, the admins have to view these demo's with complete un-biased emotion which is impossible to do.
2013-03-19 05:15
0
#352
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
India RAT.1ms
Punishment should be given but everyone shuld be given another chance.... 2 yrs are too much.. at max 1 yr is enough.
2013-03-19 08:53
0
#353
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia lux0rw0w~
ban
2013-03-19 10:24
0
#355
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
markeloff | 
Slovakia troN1
ban..he is cheater.. :/ and he doesnt know play
2013-03-19 11:04
0
1 reply
#418
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany BOTACADEMY
LOL.
2013-03-20 11:41
0
#357
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Mattyy
Ive watched it numeros amount of times, with and without wallhack and with slowmotion kills. I guess the esl admin team is so good that they should see haxx, but how cant i who has been playing since 1.5 see shit, i mean slowmotion shows the aimbot if you have it on which xelos didnt. So they cant think its aimbot. Also the most funny thing about all of this is that he played an even better tournament when they were playing at playZ in stockholm on bigscreens for the whole internetcaf&#65533;o see. Xelos is just a guy with a wierd style of play this might have ruined hed career but i can assure you that this guy does not in anyway cheat. He is an upcomming player just like f0rest, GT, Xizt etc was. Dare i remind you about GT's earlier career or maybe xizt from aimbat(with kHRYSTAL). All of them had the exact same problem as xelos has now. They were pretty unknown and were accused of cheating all the time. Thats my five cents.
2013-03-19 12:11
0
#364
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland Ventori
Cheat is cheat. /ban
2013-03-19 13:47
0
#371
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom zb_j3di
How do you know that ESL Wire didn't play a part in the ban? If the cheat used was a private one (as would undoubtedly be the case) then it's possible that Wire wasn't able to provide conclusive evidence worthy of a ban (such as the cheat name), but was used to indicate to the admin team "hey there's something very dodgy going on with this player's system" resulting in the admin team getting involved to verify it.
2013-03-19 14:28
0
2 replies
#378
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
How do you know it played a rule in it? We have 0 information thats the problem.
2013-03-19 15:54
0
ESL Wire didnt play a part in this ban since ESL even said it. What da f00k is wrong with you ppl, dont you ever understand anything?
2013-03-19 15:59
0
#373
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
slinger | 
Sweden slingerG
+1. I Watched the demo and in my opinion it wasnt any type of cheat included in that game.
2013-03-19 15:10
0
#374
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany VxO4
Nice read.
2013-03-19 15:45
0
#377
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
North Macedonia ragee
Spending €500,000 for an anti cheat tool and saying that players can cheat with it on ... lol
2013-03-19 15:52
0
#394
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Greenland peter-
xelos = ban
2013-03-19 17:11
0
#397
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe wooly1337
Esea client is much better than esl wire.
2013-03-19 17:45
0
#415
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Europe midi
feels like mid-2000s, when nearly all pro teams were softers
2013-03-20 05:01
0
#416
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands g@M
Interesting discussion. Let me say first that I do believe JW and his gang where cheating. This ban might be right. (Not telling anyone what he has done is sad). Feels a lot like 1500 just burn the witch. I would have prefered them doing shit on lan. I believe these guys got some skills but as shown in the internet cafe not enough to take out nip. I think since your fucking with a professional carree some evidence would be on its place. I hope at least xelos knows what he has done wrong.
2013-03-20 08:04
0
#417
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovenia ~GoD~
ESL- anti-cheat "team" is a joke.
2013-03-20 09:58
0
#419
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada epmd
germans being germans, nothing more nothing less.
2013-03-20 17:07
0
#420
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands g@M
Just to ad that jw and schneider are on fire strange that doesnt happen in the game cafe...
2013-03-20 21:15
0
#422
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States hoosH
good read. ESL should take more time on their decision making.
2013-03-21 07:23
0
#423
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway admin@HLTV
A buddy of mine watched the VOD of the match and then watched the POV, and he said that there was basically no fishy moves by Xelos the entire match. (He's watched countless of demos, so I trust his judgement.) Has anyone else watched the demo and can confirm? I also agree with what the author of the article said, why do you spend a huge sum of money on AC and make admins ban players? Unless someone is blatantly cheating, almost to the point of spinning, this should be a no no.
2013-03-21 18:46
0
nice1
2013-03-24 05:14
0
#426
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania Cosmin^
nice1 idi nahuy
2013-03-24 05:33
0
#427
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland OOPUZ
During these times everyone is "hating" on ESL for banning their favorite professionals (questionable in some cases, I think everyone wanted to see that xelos ban). It would be good that ESL came out publicly to show all the evidence they got against the players banned. However in this xelos case it was pretty obvious I think. Epsilon who play like gods in online and in inet cafe get bashed by NiP without a chance. That epic screenshot that was taken from MysanGouds stream: static.hltv.org/images/galleries/1693-fu.. pretty much proves that he is hacking or has hacked too.. After that action happened in his stream he deleted the VOD from twitch.tv but someone still was able to capture that screenshot and keep it lol. That proves without a doubt that he is guilty. And to clear out some air between ESL and the players here, ESL doesnt deliver these bans lightly. I as a former ESL Admin for CS:S and CS:GO know much about the stuff thats going on behind these decisions and bans are never given for slight reasons, especially bans of this caliber (xelos,nes). When someone is suspected of cheating he will undergo a thing called CheaterBO. All the evidence against him are in this case, and the jury to decide whether he hacked or not is created of longtime expert ESL admins who have huge experience in these cases, and also sometimes some other professional players. All give their insight based on the material given to them, and the fact that xelos ban was unanimous decision leaves no questions about that ban. When professional is suspected of cheating there rarely is a timetable to look at, and each tick of the evidence demo is watched through carefully. So it is kind of stupid to argue about the bans. (except the one that Hyper got based on timetable given by a single admin.. that was pretty damn bad action by that one Admin and happened in 2on2 ladder LOL). It is not my job to judge the actions of the admins but IMO ESL should have also watched MysanGouds (jesperw0w) actions closely and give him a well deserved ban. Well who knows, maybe they are still investigating him and when they gather enough evidence just strike him with a BANHAMMER OF DOOM :D lol. And last thing: to say that "he was once at LAN and played good without cheats" is the most retarded argument ever. How does that stop someone who has been at LAN cheating in online games. The case "dav1d of mTw" back in the gold CS:S days proved that he who won pretty much everything possible at LAN cheated in few single online matches and that being in LAN and playing ok doesnt mean anything. You can still cheat online. Get a grip fanboys.
2013-03-24 13:19
0
1 reply
#428
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland OOPUZ
PS. I also hope PASZA finds them :D
2013-03-24 13:25
0
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.

Back to comment

Now playing
Thumbnail for stream
Brazil
MADHOUSE TV
17891 viewers
Top streams
All(64)
Casters(45)
Streamers(12)
Organizers(7)
Brazil
MADHOUSE TV
(17891)
Brazil
gaules
(9964)
Other
PGL
(8165)
Brazil
gaules
(4778)
Other
Thunderpick
(3340)
Russia
Paragon
(2910)
Other
PGL 2
(2565)
Russia
watchfulTV
(2019)
Brazil
gaules
(1801)
Russia
watchfulTV B
(1445)
Argentina
forg1
(1212)
Brazil
boltz
(1099)
Russia
Paragon 3
(925)
Brazil
fer
(880)
Argentina
forg1
(877)
Russia
HappyChucky
(850)
Brazil
nak
(721)
Russia
poka
(697)
Ukraine
Maincast
(640)
Belgium
ScreaM
(588)
Poland
IzakOOO
(583)
United States
Trottah
(491)
United States
freakazoid
(479)
Russia
m4ga
(440)
Brazil
mch
(439)
United States
Stewie2k
(436)
Russia
Paragon 2
(421)
Romania
Werty
(421)
Russia
SBolt
(398)
Argentina
elmorocho7
(314)
Ukraine
Maincast 2
(273)
France
KRL
(235)
United Kingdom
ESL TV
(230)
United States
Trucklover86
(188)
Brazil
mch
(168)
Finland
pelaajat
(167)
Brazil
VitinhO
(156)
France
Croissant Strike
(146)
Mongolia
maaRaa
(139)
Brazil
kabrafps
(132)
Russia
jmqa
(128)
Brazil
XISTERA
(123)
Other
PGL
(118)
Mongolia
Zilkenberg
(107)
Brazil
coldzera
(89)
Brazil
Tris_Mara
(87)
Other
PGL 2
(69)
Russia
Paragon
(58)
Kazakhstan
Paragon
(58)
Brazil
gaules TV 2
(46)
Brazil
BTSBrasilTV
(38)
United States
Regent
(37)
Brazil
VilacaTTV
(35)
Brazil
Napa
(30)
France
KRL 2
(25)
Brazil
gaules TV
(25)
United States
Trottah
(25)
Finland
Elisa Esports
(13)
United States
iamfusiion
(12)
Ukraine
WOLF
(6)
Brazil
kabrafps
(5)
Ukraine
Maincast
(2)
Brazil
BTSBrasilFPS
(1)
Brazil
JokerBR (YouTube)
(1)