NiaK about Titan's DHW exclusion

Titan's manager Jérôme "NiaK" Sudries had more to add about Valve and DreamHack's decision to exclude their team from DH Winter and the qualifier, as well as about possible implications this situation and everyone's reaction has on CS:GO as an eSport.

In a personal blog titled "DreamHack Winter 2014 Epilogue" on Titan's website, the team manager Jérôme "NiaK" Sudries further talked about the way Valve handled communication with the organization and why he thinks it presents a major problem in eSports.


NiaK (behind the team) looking for answers from Valve about his team's past results

"In the wake of November 20th, I myself alongside the rest of the Titan staff have been working very hard on bringing light to the events that preceded the VAC ban of our former player Hovik “KQLY” Tovmassian.

As a general rule, Valve currently refuses to discuss the circumstances of bans, and our own requests for more information in the case of KQLY was met with:

We are not able to discuss any additional details about a VAC ban.

Now, it is reasonable to believe that this decision was made in order to respect Steam’s subscriber agreement, as well as ensure that the VAC-system’s detection process remain secret. However, this strategy is not aligned with the path that esports is taking, and I will try to explain my reasoning below.

In a case like this where a player is accused, we cannot as an organization, a community, as players or as media, be made to rely solely on the statements of the player involved. We have no opportunity to check the validity of the player’s comments, to know if the third party program was used during professional play, in a specific competition, or if the offense itself should now legitimately call into question a title or event qualification. We are left without certainty in a climate of untenable doubt.

In our specific case it is also important for the rest of the team to know if the recent months’ performances, following the arrival of KQLY, were legitimate.

The lack of communication in regard to a ban can also raise unjust problems. Imagine that a player gets banned by mistake: how can he defend himself? The players don’t play just on their personal computers. They move, participate in boot camps, in tournaments where PCs aren’t formatted after each use, play at friends’ houses, etc etc. It may very well be possible for a player to be exposed against his will and to be banned as a result. In this case, how could he clear himself without having any information surrounding the ban to defend against?

We mustn’t kid ourselves; the allures of esport today (and in future) may sadly tempt unscrupulous people to cheat during a competition. The more money that’s at stake, the more evolved and hard to detect the illicit technologies will be.

The fight against this sort of practice, however, is similar to anti-doping for sports, and Valve, just like the international organizations in this field, have to be able to communicate more detailed information on the cases concerning professional players.

As it currently stands, we don’t even really know if VAC detections are retroactive. Does Valve store data allowing them to identify a cheating player weeks or even months after the third-party program was used? Or are players only caught if they very recently, or currently, are running the program, whereas past offenses can go by undetected?

If the system was reliable and could be validated, then more communication could serve as a massive deterrent and make up the first line of defense against cheating. Also if proof could be given that cheating occurred during a certain event of qualifier, then past titles could legitimately be stripped and claims of retribution be made, providing yet further cheat disincentive."

Furthermore, Sudries explained why he thinks DreamHack and Valve's decision to exclude his team from the subsequent qualifier is harsh, and why the responsibility shouldn't be assigned only to Titan but also others he fooled as well.

"As a result of the events on November 20th, both Epsilon and Titan were banned from competing in the tournament. This raised a major question: is it right to penalize a whole team for the actions of one player?

There are two possibilities here in my opinion

- Either the ban was an isolated case, where no proof exists to implicate other team members in an organized cheating scheme.

- Or we are facing a case where it is proven that management or other players were either informed of, or even worse participated in, illicit practices.

In our case I can personally guarantee you that our policy towards this issue is very clear. There has never been, and will never be, any tolerance towards this cancer which has already done so much harm in sports. I would be ready to put everything on the line to fight against this practice which so easily could ruin the credibility of years and years of work.

Now, it’s obvious that discovering a cheater can truly call into question the performances of an entire team. However, we also can’t allow such speculations to tarnish all collective performances without providing a least a minimum of proof, and this is what we tried to get from Valve.

In the case of DreamHack Winter, aside from losing our invitation we were also excluded from the last minute qualifier. Is this reasonable or even justifiable? Taking into account what I have outlined above, I don’t think so.

I do not shy away from responsibility when it comes to the fact that we worked with a player who may have cheated in a team context, and believe me, this fact affects me, the team and the entire organization a great deal. I personally will be more vigilant and put more effort into making sure that this sort of suicidal behavior is prevented from ever occurring again. However, we aren’t the only ones working on cheat prevention. Valve and the tournament organizers are both partly responsible for providing systems which effectively and reliably target cheats.

In KQLY’s case, he is a player who’s been competing on a professional level for more than a year and a half, who participated in a lot of online tournaments with multiple anti-cheat programs, as well as several off-line events, on servers protected by Valve, in front of thousands of spectators. If in the end it turns out that he tricked us all for months, you can hopefully understand what a simplification it would be blaming Titan for everything. This in turn is why I find DreamHack and Valve’s decision, and some of your comments, very harsh towards us.

Here we can again look at professional sports, which benefit from federal organizations making sure that everyone’s rights are respected. In cases like these, the whole team would have been penalized only if it was proven that other team members or team management were involved, either through malevolent action or omission of action after becoming aware of the situation. I ask myself if this is in fact what DreamHack and Valve are suggesting?

By excluding us like this, the image and reputation of our players is tarnished.

All the aspects addressed here deserve real reflection, and discussion, so that clear rules can be established which claim real responsibility and respect the integrity of all parties.

This blog was in no way written with the purpose of escaping our responsibilities; we assume them, and would act on them even further if given the support to do so.

In order to stand a fighting chance, however, we must work together and make sound decisions so that we effectively can combat that which threatens to ruin the game we all feel so passionate for." 

The original blog can be found on Titan's website here.

#3
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland m1skaa
not #1 tho
2014-11-23 16:09
0
2 replies
#72
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark daddle88
Rekt
2014-11-23 16:23
0
1 reply
#273
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland m1skaa
2014-11-24 15:19
0
#4
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden fnatic fanboy
sad
2014-11-23 16:09
0
#5
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World embermeister
ok
2014-11-23 16:09
0
#6
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Lod[A]
RIP titan
2014-11-23 16:09
0
111
2014-11-23 16:09
0
#9
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World lvyueheng
ez
2014-11-23 16:09
0
#10
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal STRONJS
tl;dr version plz
2014-11-23 16:09
0
#11
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal Ambrius
PLS
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#12
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States smootie
lmao RIP
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#13
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
jackasmo | 
Russia *Tpo-_-JI.b*
dat Santa Barbara series continues :D->---< youtube.com/watch?v=znOpOjnTZi8
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#14
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Belarus Starvoid
RIP TITAN
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#15
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland njuub
tl;dr pls
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#16
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Palestine muzaftw
Niak ommo
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#17
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden eastonx
rip titan
2014-11-23 16:10
0
#21
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Netherlands JUNG13
Thank kukli for vacation =)
2014-11-23 16:11
0
Valve doesn't talk to anyone. Never did, never will.
2014-11-23 16:11
0
#23
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World LASS0
Unlucky titan.
2014-11-23 16:11
0
#24
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
Please, fuck off. Valve doing the right thing here.
2014-11-23 16:12
0
21 replies
#38
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Nurmis
+1
2014-11-23 16:15
0
#81
 | 
Kazakhstan Laggy
+1
2014-11-23 16:26
0
#82
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Panama WhyAlwaysMee
then have to ban fnatic player then ?
2014-11-23 16:27
0
2 replies
#95
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
With time i hope it happens. Its unacceptable to cheat in this level of play.
2014-11-23 16:32
0
1 reply
#106
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Panama WhyAlwaysMee
we are ok then :)
2014-11-23 16:36
0
#94
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Enaph
No, since it's a witch hunt everywhere, valve must do something for the pro-scene or it will suffer from this.
2014-11-23 16:32
0
9 replies
#97
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
Witch hunt or not, they still did the right thing with Titan. Can't fucking understand that someone is cheating in this level of play.
2014-11-23 16:33
0
8 replies
#113
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TRS1906
Did you read the entire blog? All he basically wants is some information to know if KQLY cheated during tournaments/official matches. He completely agrees with the ban itself and takes responsability for it.
2014-11-23 16:41
0
7 replies
#143
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
And? Why he even want to know that? What an pathetic prick who is cheating when he is playing for a team like Titan. As you know Valve & I got zero tolerance for cheating, dont know about you tho.
2014-11-23 16:55
0
4 replies
#193
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
device | 
Denmark mvpede
Such a weird response, Niak want to know the whole truth behind the ban, not just KQLY's coverstory of "cheating in mm". Like tr$ I ask you, did you read the entire text before rushing to the comment section?
2014-11-23 17:52
0
3 replies
#214
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
I dont care about what Niak want's. Lol like Valve gonna answer niaks questions haha. Cheater is a cheater, ban is a ban.
2014-11-23 18:36
0
2 replies
#225
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe Kargz
I refuse to be a swede could be this ignorant and narrow-minded. You must be an immigrant.
2014-11-23 18:57
0
1 reply
#227
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
narrow minded you say? Cool, ill use a cheat on the upcoming tournament.
2014-11-23 19:10
0
#184
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World n0n0n0
yeah like he didn't cheat in any event , it's kinda weird with all the ban vac of pros , it was just for fun never in competition , we don't care he cheat get ban he's team also kick from dhw it's fair
2014-11-23 17:43
0
1 reply
#215
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
+1
2014-11-23 18:37
0
#120
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Kasidro
Disqualifying them might be right. Not being able to communicate with the team and in the end the whole community is just wrong and unprofessional
2014-11-23 16:44
0
1 reply
#148
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Salcc
Nothing new tbh, but the deserve what they got.
2014-11-23 16:57
0
#183
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World n0n0n0
+1
2014-11-23 17:41
0
#222
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands Procyanide
All these French tears make me feel so good youtube.com/watch?v=pbIR51_J_qY
2014-11-23 18:53
0
2 replies
#265
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other Zouuu
Says the guy without good country team. Idd you can t cry.
2014-11-24 10:48
0
1 reply
#281
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands Procyanide
Says Mr fakeflag so nobody can see he is from the 3rd world
2014-11-25 09:04
0
#27
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Metamf
Where is Maniac's post?
2014-11-23 16:12
0
#28
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World stricky
I mean, Valve, get your shit together. They need to know if he cheated in a MM game half a year ago, or in big matches in the latest tournaments, because its not the same fricken thing.
2014-11-23 16:12
0
2 replies
#66
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary Tibbze
+1
2014-11-23 16:22
0
#188
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia getrektnoob
but the consequences are still the same???? !!!!!! even if you cheated against bots in a gun game server, still it's cheating and = vac ban Valve majors rules: no vac banned players allowed. ez
2014-11-23 17:46
0
to much...didn´t read
2014-11-23 16:13
0
#32
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia 2026
He's still crying? What the hell, sure it's unfortunate but damn, Epsilon got removed aswell + you even fucking kicked scream just to get 3 players and the chance to go to the major!
2014-11-23 16:14
0
#34
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada Kan1ne
KQLY himself said the ban was justified, what is Titan trying to argue? Additionally, they placed themselves in this situation with several roster changes. This is on Titan.
2014-11-23 16:18
0
5 replies
#70
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Ruffelchopper
What do you think Titan tries to do? Save their face. It's their reputation that got trashed and KQLY earlier tried to save what little dignity he had left by saying the ban is justified but just some random games where it came from. They would be utterly idiots for letting this damage their reputation but not at least try to put blame onto something else. But imagine if KQLY is one of many cheaters and took the bullet with 2 others, while other cheaters get to milk money from the e-sport scene.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
#71
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark MOEM
They want to know the importance of the ban. If it is known that KQLY maybe cheated half a year ago for a week on some random compets, organizations and the team might add him again, but if it was during an actual tournament, then he will most likely never have the chance to play again.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
#83
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France V!kteN
Did you even read the article ?
2014-11-23 16:27
0
#84
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia vlada_j
If you read whole text you wouldn't ask what is he trying to argue.
2014-11-23 16:28
0
#187
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World n0n0n0
it's niak always crying after storm or trying to lecture valve
2014-11-23 17:45
0
#35
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway ultra:D
I agree with the decision Valve took.
2014-11-23 16:14
0
1 reply
#64
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia AweSHO
+1
2014-11-23 16:22
0
#39
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia Temptt
Tldr please
2014-11-23 16:15
0
#40
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
mason | 
Tunisia mason~
poor titan getting disKQLYfied
2014-11-23 16:15
0
2 replies
2/5 you tried :v
2014-11-23 17:37
0
1 reply
#220
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
mason | 
Tunisia mason~
ok
2014-11-23 18:50
0
#42
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France JPK_
Valve banning 2 teams, not doing anything against the others. How fair... Volvo, never go full retard...
2014-11-23 16:15
0
2 replies
#62
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Nurmis
Don't worry, kioshima will get his.
2014-11-23 16:21
0
1 reply
#76
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France JPK_
I just hope everyone that deserves it gets it ! And everyone knows there is more than just Sf and KQLY.
2014-11-23 16:24
0
#43
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Portugal maguire
tl;dr?
2014-11-23 16:15
0
#44
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia agrias03
Fuck off
2014-11-23 16:15
0
#45
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia kylearm
Fuck them, cheating teams don't deserve to attend Dreamhack.
2014-11-23 16:16
0
2 replies
#98
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Enaph
did you read ?
2014-11-23 16:34
0
#105
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom spart-
No, fuck you, as you're an narrowminded idiot.
2014-11-23 16:36
0
#46
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden enuswn
The Next coming soon , Devilwalk about Fnatic DHW exclusion
2014-11-23 16:16
0
2 replies
#52
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GuardiaN | 
Sweden Xoxogossipgirl
about them winning dhw? ye look forward to that interview too
2014-11-23 16:18
0
1 reply
#118
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States maktw
if fnatic will be winning the DHW then volvo will spark the banwave at that moment and then my friend just grab some popcorns! :D
2014-11-23 16:43
0
#48
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden solanum
cry cry cry cry cry cry from the french
2014-11-23 16:17
0
4 replies
#85
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France V!kteN
I think we will cry too soon enough...
2014-11-23 16:28
0
3 replies
#100
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Enaph
+1... sadly
2014-11-23 16:34
0
#127
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World 65 WAT
yep :I
2014-11-23 16:49
0
#167
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden D1RTYY
From what i heared 1 swedish player and one na player
2014-11-23 17:27
0
#49
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Nurmis
- "I do not shy away from responsibility" Continues to blame everybody else but himself, while not accepting his team gets punished when member of his team hurts the whole legitimacy of cs as a competitive sport.
2014-11-23 16:18
0
#50
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
shox | 
Lithuania fixxie
nobody cares about niak message
2014-11-23 16:18
0
#51
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark emptyslot
When it comes to help with the development of their products and updates to the game Valve is all opened to players (they are even invited to Seattle, wow .-.) But when it comes to actually help the pro scene and the matters regarding it they kust fade away. CS is a shame because of Valve. They need to change it. They need an offical voice with the community.
2014-11-23 16:18
0
2 replies
This has always been the case. Just take a look at the 12 years of CS 1.0-1.6, Valve NEVER helped the competitive CS community to fight the problem of cheats (I remember and interview with one of the ESL officials where he said that the ESL wrote Valve a letter every year where they explained their current situations with fighting cheats and asked for help/support/info, in all the years they never got a single answer). VAC was more like a bad joke ("hey look at us, we did something, it doesn't work though, but we did something"), can't think of any hack that wasn't VAC proof. Over the years organisations like the ESL had to invest a shitload of money into creating anti-cheat-tools...that money could have been used for better things if Valve had actually done their job and made the game cheat-free. It's in the first place the game developers duty to prevent cheats. Nowadays they at least show that they are aware of the competitive side of CS, however it's pretty obvious that they just use the esport part of CS for promoting their products (they didn't give a fuck about us for 12 years, and that didn't change, it's just that their new marketing strategy includes us). Regarding that statement from NiaK: I agree with everything except for the fact that you should stop questioning the legitimization of your team's disqualification from the event. Your clan did violate the participation rules (by bringing a cheater respectively a VAC banned player into the tournament) and got therefor disqualified from the event. That's absolutely legit and has always been handled that way. Also when will you finally realize that you didn't just "drop out of the tournament", you got DISQUALIFIED. Your team is fucking BANNED from the event. Why the fuck would you have the right to participate in a special invite-only qualifier of a tournament you just have been disqualified from...this special qualifier had to be organized because of what YOUR clan caused...aren't you even ashamed of demanding such a thing? Most of all I agree that the lack of communication from Valve in such a case is unacceptable. Of course they can't release any info that would help the cheat developers to improve their cheats, but they could at least warn us if there are indeed cheats that might be LAN proof and inform us, if there's a possibility that such cheats have been used on past LAN events.
2014-11-23 17:01
0
1 reply
#268
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Elador
One of the few great comments here! Good to see there is intelligent life on this planet. Also, I couldn't have expressed my opinion better than you did!
2014-11-24 13:15
0
#54
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal gkkk
Honestly I think you'r looking the other way around. Sure Valve could make a statement providing more info but that won't change a thing. It won't change the fact that you had a player that cheated, probably under your clan tag, and that should be enough for him to be erradicated from CS. You should be mad at the player, a so called professional player that fiddled around with cheats in order to gain an advantage. If I were you I'd sue the player for the incurred losses (tickets, hotels,bad image etc). It's people like him and organisations like you that make this so called professional scene a joke, a little kids playground. Man up and take the hit.
2014-11-23 16:18
0
5 replies
#68
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia DilDoFaggins
dude what are you talking about? is he in any way defending the player? or the team? he is even saying that he would like to know if kqly had cheated at certain events so that maybe price money could be reclaimed and what not... how theyre dealing with kqly himself, if they are sueing him or whatever, thats really not public business as opposed to what he wants valve to make public. also i dont think they have any chance to sue him as long as theres nothing in his contract about him. that they need to cancel flights and hotels and shit, thats not kqlys decision. i dont even think its dreamhacks decision but probably valves decision.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
2 replies
#137
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal gkkk
No ofc he's not defending the player. I understand his point of view, he wants closer interaction with valve on the cheating issue, I agree it could be beneficial for the scene. However Valve has always worked this way. IMO Valve is doing it right, getting the hype for DHW and deterring cheaters with a fear factor. Valve owns the show so they do as they please, I for one find that disqualifying them from the tournament was the right thing to do. Allowing them on the qualifier? Why? Valve paid every expenses for that last minute qualifier, tickets, hotels etc for the players why should they not be allowed to chose or to spend the money as they see fit? And instead fly in a team in a situation where no one knows what really happened? Are there more? Did someone know? He's basically telling Valve should have done in his opinion, which is a biased one, ofc he wants to be in DHW. The world won't end next week, there will be more opportunities, more majors etc. Whoever is clean will come back to the top.
2014-11-23 16:54
0
1 reply
#251
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia DilDoFaggins
fear factory whatever. im not sure its gonna work either since cheaters that used to cheat will maybe think: meeh, im probably gonna get sent off to KQLYfornia anyways, might as well keep trying at dhw, maybe even with updated cheats. but anyways, apart from autistic fnatic fanbois everybod is sure that flusha is cheating. i dont want him at dhw unless it gets proven that he is legit. yea valve can decide to send whoever to the qualifier, but its questionable whether its fair to send titan home. niak got a point: in other sports it wouldnt be the whole team getting fucked. but theres different aspects.
2014-11-23 22:34
0
#116
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TRS1906
Next time read the entire blog.
2014-11-23 16:42
0
1 reply
#147
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal gkkk
I have read the entire blog. See reply above for further clarification on my thoughts.
2014-11-23 16:56
0
#55
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
china | 
Brazil ginga do maroto
They move, participate in boot camps, in tournaments where PCs aren’t formatted after each use, play at friends’ houses, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
2014-11-23 16:18
0
#56
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Taynil
The rules are simple: Cheating -> disqualification. Why valve should care about cheating team?
2014-11-23 16:18
0
1 reply
#128
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World 65 WAT
read the entire blog, not just the headline
2014-11-23 16:49
0
#57
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia DilDoFaggins
+1, he has a good view on things. i wasnt really sure about titan being suspended from dhw, but the way he explaines it with the analogy from professional sports (and esports is one of them) its clear that titan should have been invited to the last minute qualifier.
2014-11-23 16:19
0
2 replies
#162
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Turkey Markers
2014-11-23 17:16
0
#192
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World n0n0n0
wtf , on this matter valve and dh did the perfect and only thing to do kick titan , arguments about qualifier don't have to be read , cheat = kick , not all the team cheat ? yeah but he was vac on your team so take the hit and stfu
2014-11-23 17:51
0
enough with these noobs already, its ogre
2014-11-23 16:20
0
#60
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark TheMonk
<3 Niak - when am I gonna get my vacban bro? you threaten me on Bazar this other day in an MM.
2014-11-23 16:20
0
#61
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Japan tomyyat
Titan should lose their invitation because only 2 active ex-LDLC players in the team. However, I think valve should allow titan to participate in the qualification. Valve should give more information and communication to Titan and epsilon, they don't deserve it :(
2014-11-23 16:21
0
#63
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Syria MTR3X
disband Titan pls they are losers
2014-11-23 16:21
0
1 reply
#126
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United Kingdom Wessywes
k
2014-11-23 16:48
0
#65
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
NEO | 
Poland camarpl
shut up, rules against cheaters must be extremely harsh, everyone gets fucked in the ass, his team, his organisation, everyone so next time they will think twice about who they play with
2014-11-23 16:22
0
#69
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
World 3del!
Article 11 further qualifies this above provision by stating the following: In sports which are not team sports but where awards are given to teams, disqualification or other disciplinary action against the team when one or more team members have committed an anti-doping rule violation shall be provided for in the rules of the requisite International Federation. Thus following article 11 we can see that in sports such as athletics or cycling whereby the athletes compete as individuals but in some cases as part of a team it is up to the International Federation of that particular sport to make the final decision on punishment. Source: inbrief.co.uk/sports-law/doping-in-team-..
2014-11-23 16:23
0
#73
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World good guy olaf
cly got ban, DH allowed Planetkey to make a stand-in. KQLY and SF banned, DH disqualified them. And why the fuck they didnt invite mouz.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
#74
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Brazil bandicoot
Taking into account what KQLY have done, I think yes. Its pretty damn reasonable and justified, fucking baguette cheater team, how could a team that benefited from a players hack not be disqualified, what r u smoking mr blog writer? pls use your brain.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
#75
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland whOoOzAAA
the guys is a face-saving idiot. News flash, Valve is smarter then you and titanorg. If you KQLBYE cheated from a diff ip, account, Valve would have let you morons knows. Otherwise, they wont disclose any further, they confirm, ban is legit. Nor are they entitled to provide info or statement on the matter. They are doing you a favor. If you guys really want to bitch about it, lets have valve go on record, and prove that KQLY did cheat more then 7 days, and on major tournys and not just MM as he claims. Let valve prove your lies to damage control the situation is just BS. And make you look real stupid. So titan, I suggest you guys shut your whinny twats, and deal with the fact that you fucked up. You really think the CSGO community is stupid enough to believe KQLBYE's statement? We know its you saving face, telling him to write that so the organization doesn't look stupid as fuck, and just knowing that,you look stupid as fuck x2. Imagine if valve came out as said this little faggot you had playing for cheated in this and this event. How mad would other teams be that they got robbed buy you faggots? You would have alot more problems then just losing a player and DHW. So, please.. shut your fucking face. 0 tolerance for cheaters and org's who try to lie via damage control. PS: go fuck yourself.
2014-11-23 16:23
0
7 replies
+infinty
2014-11-23 16:35
0
#119
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TRS1906
Read the entire blog, holy fuck.
2014-11-23 16:43
0
3 replies
#122
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland whOoOzAAA
oh I read it.. just needed to get this off my chest as I see titan needling and blaming valve cus they mad.
2014-11-23 16:45
0
2 replies
#130
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World 65 WAT
idiot, read it again
2014-11-23 16:50
0
#140
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania TRS1906
Well from what I understood from it is that he basically wants to know if KQLY is telling the truth, he's not contesting the ban at all, just wants to know if he possibly (lol) cheated in tournaments or official matches.
2014-11-23 16:54
0
How is it saving face when they didnt fucking know about him cheating you dumbass.By your logic if a football team has one player using illegal substance they need to ban the whole team?Like not playing the world cup ?
2014-11-23 17:09
0
1 reply
#159
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland whOoOzAAA
by my logic? when did I sat that? they are saving face by his statement. God forbid it came out he cheated lets say, in that jumping usp shot on pasha which put them out, or other events. Can you imagine? So IMO, titan instructed him to write that statement... damage control.
2014-11-23 17:12
0
#79
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Spain fd`
French.
2014-11-23 16:26
0
1 reply
constructive comment/10
2014-11-23 22:10
0
#80
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
TRAVIS | 
Slovakia kingofpop
He cheated. /thread No reason from valve to discuss anything, titan as an organization should have contract about using cheats with players.
2014-11-23 16:26
0
#86
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Habanos
oh bullshit, crying about the exclusion from dhw, it was definitely the right thing to do. In most sports as well if one of your team mates gets busted for any form of cheating, the whole team will suffer for it. It's a team-game after all, isn't it? It's of no difference if the other players of the team knew or didn't, what kqly was doing, simply the fact that he has cheated is sufficient enough for the exclusion. I find it amusing that after all of this shit, both titan and epsilon are complaining about the decision. How seriously could people really take esport if the team that just got busted, would still be able to attend the biggest counter-strike tournament of all time.
2014-11-23 16:29
0
#88
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Mexico TurboDreams
This really shows how much Valve doesn't care about CSGO. I'm willing to bet if this happened in the pro dota 2 scene, Valve would be as transparent as possible in regards to the bans.
2014-11-23 16:30
0
1 reply
#189
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe F.Nietzsche
What makes you think so?
2014-11-23 17:46
0
#89
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States stratmatt
If you fucking cheat in Valve's game they have the right to ban you with zero explanation. They don't need to say anything. It is their game and we all choose to play it and watch it. If we don't like it we can do something else entirely. Valve is basically saying that it is 100% the responsibility of the players and their organizations to ensure that nobody is cheating. If you don't do your part and somebody gets caught, well you are shit out of luck. PERIOD. Valve doesn't owe us anything in regards to catching people cheating in their game. They have been vac banning thousands upon thousands of people for years without explanation and will always do it that way. Fuck KQLY. Fuck Titan, just stfu and come back next time without a cheater.
2014-11-23 16:30
0
2 replies
#136
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United Kingdom Wessywes
Yes, Valve's method is fine for the normal player who decides to hack within MM. But this is someone's career. Valve need to be more transparent on how long KQLY was hacking, for which time periods ect. This lets us know if he was hacking within any tournament games, and then people can make a decision regarding the refund of prize money. Esports cant go on like this.
2014-11-23 16:52
0
#185
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
mezii | 
United Kingdom Epicanator
Agreed. I understand NiaK's frustration but Valve have ultimate power over this situation and if they don't want Titan there because of KQLY then so be it.
2014-11-23 17:43
0
#92
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway Flops_Conjo
It´s really pathetic that they keep banging this drum. You know deep down that all they care about is the fucking sticker and other promotional monetary benefits of being part of a major. We get that you are disappointed Titan, but most of the statements above are so fucking dumb. We have no opportunity to check the validity of the player’s comments, to know if the third party program was used during professional play, in a specific competition, or if the offense itself should now legitimately call into question a title or event qualification. Why does it matter under what circumstances it happened? All CS players are protected and judged under the same principles. Is he really trying to say that if KQLY cheated in a random MM, the ban should not apply like it does to everyone else? The lack of communication in regard to a ban can also raise unjust problems. Imagine that a player gets banned by mistake: how can he defend himself? If it is his job to play professionally, he should take the necessary precautions to eliminate ALL the examples that is further detailed, with help from his organization which proclaims that they take all necessary steps to ensure cheating (unjust or just) doesn´t happens. As a result of the events on November 20th, both Epsilon and Titan were banned from competing in the tournament. This raised a major question: is it right to penalize a whole team for the actions of one player? Yes, the organization and it´s members are also responsible. Why is this even a question? It´s a risk Titan is responsible to mitigate contractually with their players. CS:GO on a professional level is a business. Act that way ffs. In the case of DreamHack Winter, aside from losing our invitation we were also excluded from the last minute qualifier. Is this reasonable or even justifiable? Taking into account what I have outlined above, I don’t think so. I disagree. Try again by qualifying with a clean team for next major. It sucks for the players that didn´t cheat, of course, but think about the potential teams that did not qualify due to potential cheating. It sucks even more for them. This blog was in no way written with the purpose of escaping our responsibilities; we assume them, and would act on them even further if given the support to do so. It was. You should still act on your responsibilities even though you aren´t getting any support. That way you might get to join the next major without the teams credibility put into question.
2014-11-23 16:33
0
3 replies
#153
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Nurmis
+1
2014-11-23 17:07
0
#173
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
World balls
We have no opportunity to check the validity of the player’s comments, to know if the third party program was used during professional play, in a specific competition, or if the offense itself should now legitimately call into question a title or event qualification. you're misunderstanding his point. his point is if he was cheating in professional play, then it affects their entire team and they'd want to know if all of their hard work is tainted from one bad apple or if he did only cheat for a week in MM. If they get stripped of their DW title or disqualified from other events even though there is proof that KQLY didnt cheat in professional play, then it matters to the team.
2014-11-23 17:32
0
#247
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe brooklynlol
This so much. NiaK is taking the role of a victim, which is pathetic really. KQLY got VAC-banned due to cheating, why should he be judged by principles that differs from regular users?
2014-11-23 21:47
0
#96
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World sumoality
Wow they cry and cry. 3 players got the invite (ex-ldlc). This was a rule that to get the invite for dreamhack 3 players from same roster had to come. They cannot do that now, and still they blame valve. Grow up! For people outside the scene - new sponsors, you need to step up as an org.
2014-11-23 16:32
0
#99
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World SkyZ
Titan is still acting like a pathetic crybaby, trying to place the blame on others. They as an organization, "hired" players to work for them... UNDER THEIR BANNER. Trying to dismiss KQLY's cheating act as an isolated case or whatever is the most irresponsible shit an organization can do. This ain't a random scrim where you take whoever and put in a team. You HIRED the players to play for YOUR organization. You ARE responsible for the actions of your employees. Obviously it doesn't mean you take the same punishment as the employee in question, but trying brush aside the problem and having the nerve to even blame Valve for your own employee's actions are just fucking pathetic.
2014-11-23 16:33
0
#104
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bangladesh kappadia
once a cheater - always a cheater btw youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8
2014-11-23 16:35
0
#108
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden WHO mintR
Wasn't there arule saying 60% of players who qualified had to still be in the team to allow the team to play? Doesn't that nullify this discussion completely?
2014-11-23 16:39
0
#110
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World (' ',)
I'm on Valve's side. A pro player shouldn't be cheating anywhere not on mm not on pubs and certainly not in pro matches... And if they call themselves pros and can't notice that they are bootcamping on PCz that have cheats then they're too stupid for the job. The sole duty of pro gamers is to have a clean PC. Is that too much to ask from them? I think not...
2014-11-23 16:40
0
#111
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
India c0rvus
Drama. Drama everywhere !!!
2014-11-23 16:40
0
#112
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil malheiros7j
didnt read lol
2014-11-23 16:40
0
#117
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World porter-
delusional statement. dont blame valve for their reaction if fault was on your side. and answersing major question of titans management: "As a result of the events on November 20th, both Epsilon and Titan were banned from competing in the tournament. This raised a major question: is it right to penalize a whole team for the actions of one player?" of course yes, because noone could expect how titan would play if they werent boosted by cheater. maybe they could fail to qualify? ban is only reasonable option. gj volvo
2014-11-23 16:43
0
3 replies
#146
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Yupppi
You of course left aside all other parts like where they didn't get an invitation to qualifier after the ban. Also you are blinded by the fact that someone got banned for cheating and ignore his good point about how Valve needs to give some information and have communication between pro level teams. This resembles the situation where the police would capture a person and court would sentence him to prison and no one would get any information other than "he has commit a crime". Justice system needs to be transparent so people won't be in confusion accusing all the other pros here and there and asking if the whole scene is rotten and how the future events will manage; will they be clean or full of cheaters and so on.
2014-11-23 16:56
0
2 replies
#252
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World porter-
i quoted 'major question' and answered to :) they didnt get invitation because its punishment for cheating, thats obvious. besides, they had 4 man rooster in that moment. and about the rest; justice system needs to be fair at first. if me or you got vacban, volvo wouldnt even care, and same should be in this case. its pro, but rules are rules. i assume that if paris hilton kill someone in car accident you expect police to contact her and talk about situation or maybe equal treatment like some random citizen and put her in jail?
2014-11-23 22:57
0
1 reply
#274
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland Yupppi
Of course punishment should follow with an explanation. That's the point here, Valve never communicates and it would be good if they gave some information. If it's me, you or some pro. In that Hilton example I expect police to treat her like anybody else. That is by first informing they have proof she killed someone in a car accident and then present the evidence to the court explaining what is it that she's accused of and if somebody else should be penalized too and if they will restrict her family's rights. Police doesn't work that way that they just come to your door and handcuff you and take you to jail, then restrict your family's rights and not inform anyone of anything. At least in Finland. And Titan indeed had 4-man roster but they immediately had a stand-in and it's nowadays common the teams have stand-ins so one player absent wouldn't mean they're out.
2014-11-24 16:43
0
#121
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden cliff_ct
He's shifting away this whole thing from the fact that they didn't have the 3/5 players from the last major playoffs in their rosters which is required to receive an invite, making this whole wall of text ludicrous. He'll manage to deceive a few though, I'm sure.
2014-11-23 16:44
0
#123
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World LeviathaNz
All of you saying that Valve doesn't need to give any informations about when and how it happened are just idiot who cannot think by themselves. Of course at this point, on this level you need to bring proof on the table and not just ban and vanish. As he said it could only benefits esports, imagine he cheated on a qualifier or on final stages of some events, Valve could ask the organisation to give the money back. In addition, disqualifying them is a good thing because they had a potential cheater when they qualified. But not letting them the chance to qualify again with another player is just bullshit. Unilateral decision is never good in anything. If Valve wants to be involved in the cs pro scene they have to act like in other sports. Tests > Caught cheating > Proof > Public press release > Ban > Taking action against org (and refill the money/take back titles). If they want players/org to be pro, they should act as pro aswell.
2014-11-23 16:46
0
4 replies
#132
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Palestine 2stronk
The manager left the part out of valve's reaction where they confirm the ban... they just won't give further info regarding what cheat when and where..
2014-11-23 16:51
0
#134
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia SicknO
+1 Altho this case might be alot bigger than we know about. So they might just keep their mouths shut for now, because of what is about to happen. But I definetly agree with the parts regarding the pro-scene. If you want e-sports to grow, there need to be alot more transparency and dynamic communication when things like this occur. No one is asking for statements and explanations about random no-namers. But when it's about competition and alot of money, it's a whole different ballgame...
2014-11-23 16:54
0
#141
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World (' ',)
why would anyone release information in the middle of the investigation and compromise it? everyone knows it won't end on kqly and titan... when everything is over the should release all the info about when/how etc.
2014-11-23 16:54
0
1 reply
#163
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World LeviathaNz
The answer from valve is clear & lacking of profesionnalism : We are not able to discuss any additional details about a VAC ban. They are not even investigating ://
2014-11-23 17:20
0
#129
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Palestine 2stronk
You can call valve's choice very harsh to disban both teams instead of just the players, but this is making a POINT. Don't fuck with gabens shit... I am actually glad they took such harsh measures just to make a POINT ;)
2014-11-23 16:50
0
#133
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World 65 WAT
all the people writing shit without even reading the blog
2014-11-23 16:51
0
#135
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
tabseN | 
France shoxAttorney
niak is a gr8 manager, wish everyone in the scene was like him
2014-11-23 16:52
0
#142
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World PewPewKurt
Instead of writing a blog, they should go to a lawyer and figure out if the way Valve manages their no-informations policies is legit or not. If noone at least try to force them to show their informations, they will never do it.
2014-11-23 16:54
0
#144
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal Uncino84
They play together in the same house, i don't believe they don't know kqly use cheats. If they support a cheater they should be banned from tournaments, they don't add anything to the community, don't have fair-play, and only help to give bad name to this game.
2014-11-23 16:55
0
1 reply
#152
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
If KQLY used some kind of "sound-esp" or "dot-wallhack", how could you catch this? You should f*cking look at his screen everytime and everywhere, and also use his headphones to catch his cheats. Would you, being a teammate with 4 other players, try to catch them? I think they would kick your ass and invite some other played then, because it's not acceptable for you to behave this way. Dude, they PLAYED together and not tried to "unmask" each other, if you don't trust to your teammates - you should quit this team.
2014-11-23 17:03
0
#145
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal acidq
Nope, you need to check if the team who represent your organisation is cheating
2014-11-23 16:56
0
#149
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
Dear NiaK, Valve is only a bunch of f*ckers, whose only aim is to make money. That's why they don't care not only about regular players, but also about you and any big organisation. Thus your attempts to fight for justice are doomed to fail.
2014-11-23 16:58
0
#150
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
Not really, you could've been banned out from all competitions for a period of time :) It is your fault to have a player that cheats, cause it was you (as an organization) that picked that player, not Valve, nor Dreamhack org. So, the responsibility is solely on you, my friend. I only agree with line where you ask from Valve to co-op and that is really needed. Valve needs to give info or at least to prove the ban, since if we didn't have KQLY's confession, we could still debate whether he cheated or not. And even with confession, I agree you need some evidences and info. But, i still wouldn't give you right to compete nor to qualify again :P
2014-11-23 16:58
0
20 replies
#157
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
Let's say, you're a rapist, you raped and killed your sister with a spade 10 years ago, but it didn't be found out by police. You have been hired by some organisation ("Uncle Spade and his pits, Co Ltd") to dig out a pit near some house, suddenly you saw a girl of the same appearance as your sister was, you hit her with your spade, then police cought you and you confessed to that crime commited by you 10 years ago. Should your organisation "Uncle Spade and his pits" be condemned along with you?
2014-11-23 17:11
0
13 replies
#165
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Intellex
Wtf, u need some treatments ASAP
2014-11-23 17:22
0
3 replies
#168
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
And you need to gtfo, cuz i didn't talk to you. You clueless kids make me vomit.
2014-11-23 17:28
0
2 replies
#170
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Intellex
LOL, talks guy who writes that kinda shit. U think too much of yourself u little shit.
2014-11-23 17:30
0
1 reply
#178
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
May be it was you whom raped that guy?
2014-11-23 17:35
0
#200
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
First of all, i have to agree with guy Intellex, your example is awful. Second, my statement is only valid if he had cheated while in organization, which is my basis. If he did it before, without anyone's notice and didn't while he was in Titan, then i cannot blame Titan and i agree with your point. I guess i wasn't clear enough :) Ofc, this case is also a precedent, since this is huge for CS:GO and it cannot be compared in any way. When Valve decided to deal with this cancer, they knew it had to be cut from the roots. Therefore, they make huge and maybe harsh decisions, but it is also needed and Titan, alongside Epsilon will be collateral damage :)
2014-11-23 18:06
0
8 replies
#237
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
Dude, your organisation isn't guilty that you're a fraudster. And my example is pretty accurate, where: KQLY - raper VAC - police raping/killing - cheating Uncle Spade and his pits, Co Ltd - Titan organisation I highly doubt that a company you work for, is spying on you all the time, checking every aspect of your life, and also one of your superiors is staying behind you all the f*cking time at work and watching wtf are you doing. To blame Titan that they're guilty that KQLY is a f*cker is retarded.
2014-11-23 20:22
0
7 replies
#241
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
Check #239, you do have to understand that you are comparing two different things and your analogy is not the most accurate one :) KQLY playing CS:GO -> his job He broke the rule while he was doing his job (if you get me), no one is accusing him of doing something in his spare time, that's the point.
2014-11-23 20:52
0
5 replies
#245
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
Yeah, He broke the rule while he was doing his job. He. He! He!!! It's not his orga's fail, how can't you get it??? His (or anybody's) orga can't spy on him (or anybody else) every f*cking time! His teammates couldn't spy on him either, because if they had regarded him as a cheater, they wouldn't have even invited him to their team. I think it's obvious! Another example. You're a guy who sells some goods, you got driving licence and drive your car to arrive to some potential buyer and to conduct negotiations with him in/on behalf of your employer, you break road rules and bring down some pedestrian. Is it your company's fail that you decided to brake road rules? C'mon.
2014-11-23 21:48
0
4 replies
#248
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
Actually, it is :) Try to do it in real world and you will see :) Usually, the company wants you to sign the paper where you say you are the only one responsible for your acts during the ride etc. That is the only way to get rid of reponsibility!
2014-11-23 21:56
0
2 replies
#254
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Nepal Jüqreign
So you're saying that if you commit a crime during working hours, it's your company who will be condemned along with you? Sorry, man, but I think it's bullshit :-)
2014-11-23 23:30
0
1 reply
#255
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
Not condemned, but punished and will take consequences. Anyway, let's just wait for more info from Valve, there's still a week before DH :)
2014-11-23 23:45
0
#275
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia NaziFuck
KQLY cheated which gave his team an unfair advantage over teams who might have qualified otherwise therefor his team is disqualified. It's like this: An employee of Spades Inc. makes fraudulent claims which lead his company to get a contract which they otherwise wouldn't have got. Later it is revealed that the delivered Spades aren't up to the promised standard. The fault lies with the fraudulent employee, but you wouldn't prohibit the buyer from returning the spade or canceling the contract with Spades Inc. now would you?
2014-11-24 17:45
0
#243
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia getrektnoob
+1 That must be a high level troll or he has no idea how accountability and liability in life works basically
2014-11-23 21:03
0
#190
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia getrektnoob
the lack of simple logic and itelligence is strong with this one here
2014-11-23 17:47
0
5 replies
#204
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
If you would be kind enough to explain why :) But be constructive and share your arguments with us.
2014-11-23 18:10
0
4 replies
#238
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia getrektnoob
The analog for what you are basically saying is following: Company A hires new worker named B. B happens to be a serial killer. He hasn't been caught yet. After 1 year working in this company, police catches him and he is convicted for his killings. Now you are saying, that company A is also quilty and should be held responsible for A's killings just because of the fact, that B happened to work in company A. Don't you see how retarded logic that is?
2014-11-23 20:38
0
3 replies
#239
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
That is not retarded logic, the company is responsible, since it is the one that hired the serial killer. Imagine this: Person N.N. works in a PC store. One day N.N., just outside the store, attacks someone and stabs the victim. The company holds the responsibility for the act of it's employee. Just simple as that. Also, you keep comparing two different things. He broke the rules, while he was "working" (@KQLY), that is a huge thing.
2014-11-23 20:46
0
2 replies
#242
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Estonia getrektnoob
WTF? You can't be serious? How the hell is the company responsible? Just because they hired the serial killer? For fuck sake, they did not know that???? Do you have any basic idea how law works or how life in general works and is arranged? I mean seriously? I won't bother arguing anymore, it's a dead-end if you can't figure out the flaws in your tought process by yourself reading my previous or this response.
2014-11-23 21:01
0
1 reply
#244
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Serbia nutcracker
Yes, i know how it works and i stand my ground with that statement. I agree it is a dead end.
2014-11-23 21:09
0
#154
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Intellex
Its titan&#711;s shit that they had hacker. Why should they get second chance to attend dreamhack? Meanwhile there are lots of teams who havent had any chance to attend the major.
2014-11-23 17:09
0
#155
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia bwaybwoy
could someone told me, why Niak said this: We mustn’t kid ourselves; the allusport today may sadly...???
2014-11-23 17:09
0
#164
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia sjf
1. Valve shouldn't disclose any info as to neither its methods nor time when cheater got caught. Why? Because it would compromise security and help cheaters and cheat coders to bypass it. 2. Why ban whole team? Imagine situation: 1 or 2 cheaters could carry team thru qualifiers, rest of the players know about cheating. In case cheaters are banned they just play with stand-in and get money off stickers and prize pool. Banning whole team is the only option to prevent such scenario.
2014-11-23 17:21
0
#169
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania CMINUSNINE
Valve doesn't have to explain shit to anyone. It's their choice about who can play in their tournament and who can't.
2014-11-23 17:29
0
#171
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
china | 
Brazil ginga do maroto
etc etc
2014-11-23 17:31
0
#172
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Malaysia macx
Did you guys know.. MM full of dammn hacker.. why not valve do something about it and just bypass this pro player? this is nonsense because valve only care about money and didnt want to response to public people suggestions. There were like fucking every match in mm at least got 1 hacker. Please valve.. do something about this.
2014-11-23 17:32
0
There's a complete lack of transparency when dealing with Valve in regard to issues with Steam itself. I don't believe they should disclose any specific details regarding the ban, but there should be an E-Sports Community Manager that comments on situations such as this one. It still feels hard to take their commitment to e-sports serious despite the great things they've done for our community in the past year or so.
2014-11-23 17:35
0
NiaK is an intelligent guy, unlike the majority of hltv. I agree with his statement that Valve should start working with organisations and disclosure more information on these issues. It would only benefit to know when was the first useage and for how long did it last overall. There should be actual proof that somebody has done something, somewhere. There's also the question whether they should threat such occurances like an isolated case or punish an entire team based on it. If there's no further proof that anyone else on Titan cheated or knew about KQLY then they should punish him and him alone. That's the most basic,simple and most righteous thing to do. This is not an individual sport and you can't judge an entire team, management and organisation based on the actions of one single person. Also it's never good that nobody questions certain authorities in their decisions, like Valve in this particular case. Nobody is forcing them to reveal their anti-cheating system and method ins and out, but simply to provide more information and to investigate such situations further before punishing an entire team. There should be communication and actions based on further analysis. Titan suffered a major blow because of the actions of one man. We're not talking just about their CS team but the entire organisation. I think the end verdicts should be targetted at those who've been proven in their guilt while not dragging everyone who is associated with them in a way.
2014-11-23 17:43
0
2 replies
I'm on the fence about this. I feel organizations\tournaments have the right to recover funds, but at the same time I don't feel Valve should be disclosing any specific information to the public. Maybe there should be a process subject to NDA to obtain basic information that's available.
2014-11-23 17:46
0
#276
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia NaziFuck
I think Valves privacy policies prohibit them from even sharing that particular information with a third party, even if they wanted to which they probably don't.
2014-11-24 17:49
0
#194
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France shadafakap
too long, couldn't read all that crap
2014-11-23 17:52
0
1 reply
#195
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World n0n0n0
well , he's crying for money and more power
2014-11-23 17:54
0
#196
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland ZoqFotPik
such a long response, didn't read it all, when this is a very simple thing: when a team qualifies with a hacker that is then discovered, the whole team is banned from that competition. there is no other way. you can't just qualify with a hacker and then change a player. no matter if they knew about it or not (who would even be able to prove such a thing). they're just mad for losing the sticker money
2014-11-23 17:57
0
#197
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Fifflaren | 
Sweden fiff1aren
Since planetkey are invited and will play AND had a player vacbanned(cly) I can not understand why the same thing doesnt happen for titan or epsilon? Im not saying that titan or epsilon should be invited cause of that reason, im just saying that it is very wierd to make so different decicions on the same type of case. Is it some sort of a statement just because Kqly was such a huge player in the scene or is it just bad decision making?
2014-11-23 18:00
0
#199
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
f0rest | 
Sweden Igmuwa
''If in the end it turns out that he tricked us all for months, you can hopefully understand what a simplification it would be blaming Titan for everything. This in turn is why I find DreamHack and Valve’s decision, and some of your comments, very harsh towards us.'' It only shows that your perspective, when trying to reason against this case, is not understanding the concept of your given penalty. You can create walls of text with the most well used grammar, but it is all the same. It's not possible to proove whether anyone else in a team or even organisation is innocent or not. That is why the decision is final. Be a man and just swallow it, come back stronger :)
2014-11-23 18:04
0
#202
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands Dutchboy
Good post
2014-11-23 18:07
0
#203
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Denmark fyhn
Well buh-fucking-huh.
2014-11-23 18:09
0
#207
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Ukraine Servaler
That was a realy nice persuasive essey. GJ! However I do believe the community knows only about the top of an iceberg. And this blog is just a tool in a defence strategy Titan using to disperce public rage. Just guessing... If Valve apply a common justice principle: "unguily until there are enough evidences to prove otherwise" they may have yet not enough evidences to convict other pro players, including those of Titan. But if there are suspects (and probably there are a few), Valve would not disclose any tiny bit of information about investigation process.
2014-11-23 18:17
0
#210
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Romania xeoni
@NiaK 1. You're talking about how valve can't show you some clear evidence about KQLY's ban and how he can't defend him self. WHY? He already said the "BAN WAS JUSTIFIED", even tho the story he said was a complet BS. 2. You have the exact attitude of a laywer who's defending a guilty guy (and he knows it), to be more specific: You're trying to turn all the s**tstorm into a diferrent direction, so people won't focus on the real subject. 3. As a manager, after this happened, you're job IMO was to CLEAR the rest of the team of any guilt that might go towards them, like the questions we are all asking: DID ANY OF THE TEAM MEMBERS knew about KQLY's activity? I`m not sure if there's a rule about this, but i think in a team game, where the team and/or organization chose the players, if a guy does wrong, the hole pack should be punished.
2014-11-23 18:32
0
#212
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Germany Heiliger Bimbam
You play as a team and you fall as a team. My opinion is that this decision (to disqualify Titan) was right! The penalty must be hard maybe even the hardest because else the temptation is too big. When a pro decides to use cheats in a team he has to expect the most harsh penalty from his team - and this only results when he damaged the repution of his AND his team. the highter you can fall the higher the fear to do so keeps you away from such ideas (to cheat). and another thing is that you qualified as a team - therefore the way up to the hill was probably with the help with cheats and aslong it cannot be proved otherwise every tournament hoster/organization has to presume that this is the case - and I admit - this is actually a problem because the truth is not discoverable but on the other hand - in a penalty and determent sense - irrelevant.
2014-11-23 18:28
0
#221
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World c0baincss
Again a guy who doesn't play at toplevel but have power to speak of things that happen. Niak, I just lost every ounch of respect I had for you. This is the most embarrasing statement I have ever read, why? You guys have no spine. Take responsibility, its YOU who trusted the guy he is YOUR friend and got caught playing for YOUR clan. This ain't valves fault, they dont need to send you ANYkind of information regarding the ban. The least YOU can do, is take the guy to court for the fraud he has done in your name. Lil armenian thief belongs in a prison cell.
2014-11-23 18:52
0
1 reply
#224
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Belgium gilisen
OMG
2014-11-23 18:55
0
#223
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Belgium gilisen
+1
2014-11-23 18:54
0
#226
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World prslol
lol people are fucking retarded in this thread. Should KQLY get banned, of course. Should Titan lose their spot, yes. Should Titan get a chance at the last chance qualifier with a standin... yes. How in the fuckin world is management or the players suppose to know someone on the team is cheating with the cheats that are available today? It's not 99-05 anymore where aimbots are blatant and experience players can notice a wallhacker. The new aimbots are very difficult to spot, especially if you want to be for certain someone cheats. Just look at the threads about flusha. So now management and the players who have no resources to catch cheaters are suppose to catch a player on their team and remove them before he gets banned? That's ridiculous. We don't even know if he cheated in actual matches and obviously no league anti cheat caught him. Both Epsilon and Titan should've gotten a second chance. It's ridiculous to be punished this hard for something the other 4 players had no control over. It's not like the community had been saying for months OH SF AND KQLY CHEAT kick them! Punishing cheaters very harshly is great, punishing legit players that have no way of knowing if their teammate is cheating is shitty as fuck. Hopefully valve is giving information on whether any of the players cheated at events to the event organizers. So that new precautions can be made. Unless a team is picking up a known cheater or something seriously dumb they shouldn't be punished this hard until we have programs available for them to thoroughly investigate if their players cheat. Losing their already earned spots was harsh enough for the rest of the team.
2014-11-23 19:04
0
#228
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark wubz
When VALVE can't provide evidence of the ban, can we believe the integrity of it? I'm not saying that KQLYs ban isn't justified since he admitted it, but there has been cases where it was false-positive. Also what I think NiaK wants with this statement/blog, is that money could've been won in illegal ways (with cheat) and therefor it needs other actions than what there's being done now. The questions being raised by NiaK could be put like this: - How far back can VALVE look back to see if cheat has been used? - Can VALVE employees do VAC bans? - Is there any way to provide info about the ban, so you actually can defend yourself if it's a false-positive? and make it clear if it's a true ban? "As a general rule, Valve currently refuses to discuss the circumstances of bans, and our own requests for more information in the case of KQLY was met with: We are not able to discuss any additional details about a VAC ban. "Now, it is reasonable to believe that this decision was made in order to respect Steam’s subscriber agreement, as well as ensure that the VAC-system’s detection process remain secret. However, this strategy is not aligned with the path that esports is taking, and I will try to explain my reasoning below. In a case like this where a player is accused, we cannot as an organization, a community, as players or as media, be made to rely solely on the statements of the player involved. We have no opportunity to check the validity of the player’s comments, to know if the third party program was used during professional play, in a specific competition, or if the offense itself should now legitimately call into question a title or event qualification. We are left without certainty in a climate of untenable doubt. In our specific case it is also important for the rest of the team to know if the recent months’ performances, following the arrival of KQLY, were legitimate. The lack of communication in regard to a ban can also raise unjust problems. Imagine that a player gets banned by mistake: how can he defend himself? The players don’t play just on their personal computers. They move, participate in boot camps, in tournaments where PCs aren’t formatted after each use, play at friends’ houses, etc etc. It may very well be possible for a player to be exposed against his will and to be banned as a result. In this case, how could he clear himself without having any information surrounding the ban to defend against? We mustn’t kid ourselves; the allures of esport today (and in future) may sadly tempt unscrupulous people to cheat during a competition. The more money that’s at stake, the more evolved and hard to detect the illicit technologies will be." Right now the team got banned from DHW, because KQLY cheated before he joined the team. Or so does he say in his statement. Why is the team being punished then? VALVE needs to provide more evidence and statements regarding professional players being banned like this. They need to work more with the scene and not make it harder. In the end, we all want a clean game and some good competetive play to watch or play outselves. No need to dig the game a deeper grave :)
2014-11-23 19:28
0
made thread about this yesterday: hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=680994
2014-11-23 19:32
0
Well, if people should be going on VACations I really think flusha should be one of the first in the waiting line. There is too many videos showing flusha randomly aim locking on someone across the map, aim locking in a impossible situation, and I mean it, impossible.
2014-11-23 19:34
0
#231
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden AntiB
That one person in 1 team is cheating , should end up with a personal ban. It´s like in Olympics when ppl been taken for steroids they get banned but not the whole team. I think that Titan should have been able to play the QF if they did find a stand in. You cant blame a team for 1 persons act. That would have been awsome if someone in USA was doped and the whole US was banned from the Olympics... And whats going on now is that ppl that is noobs , semi pros are trying to point out new ppl that are cheating. Thats so fucking lame ! Enjoy the game untill SOLID PROOF show you the other way. The top of the wold players just got it in their blood and yes now and then sadly stuff like this happens in all sports , all the time. some says Flusha some says JW .... i will just lay back and see a swedish final...
2014-11-23 19:46
0
#232
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe DIGGESTBICK
Shut the fuck up. Valve doesn't need to explain shit. You had a player that cheated and literally stole money from other legitimate teams, and you're trying to put some of the blame on Valve. If anything, Valve are the fucking heroes.
2014-11-23 19:49
0
#233
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Wasdlk
The entire team should not be allowed to participate in any events, where they either actively are trying to qualify or already have qualified. By doing so, a cheater also risks his friendship with his fellow teammates, the anger of the scene and thus further disgraces himself. Furthermore, we might see teams impose their own cheat control, as seen in other sports, where an organization wants to have clean athletes. And if you don't penalize the entire team, then the entire team could be in on it. Four clean players, and one that cheats on order to boost the team forward and get sticker money. If he is ever caught, they'll agree to say "oh shit, we didn't" know that!", get a new player but by that time the damage is done....if the cheater is even caught! Or they can stand by him and say "there must be some fault with VAC, look at his statistics too. We are positive that he is clean and will continue to play with him". They'll split the money, the cheater gets his share and they go free. The other way is the only way to be safe. The team police themselves and should you play with a cheater, well then it's only the current tournaments you are banned from as well.
2014-11-23 20:03
0
#234
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Romania HardCorePvP
so many words...:/
2014-11-23 20:11
0
#235
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia Vanek 8)
KQLY - NON VOLVO ,DONT PARTY
2014-11-23 20:13
0
#236
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia Vanek 8)
FROM WARWAR,FROM RUSSIA
2014-11-23 20:14
0
#240
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States alterbyme
I'm incline to agree with him. If they righted the wrong to the best to their ability i.e by kicking kqly than they should get a second chance and partake in the emergency qualifier.
2014-11-23 20:45
0
#249
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada boulAAYYY
and if he just cheated one time a pug just to see how its work? maybe he never cheat in an important match.
2014-11-23 22:02
0
1 reply
yea sure.thats the reason why he tried undetected cheats in in the first place,to use it in MM machtes only.do you srsly believe to his statement:D? if yes,jesus christ how naive people are these days...
2014-11-24 08:26
0
#257
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France Innocent_fr
Tldr version please
2014-11-24 01:17
0
#258
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Sweden X-rAy
if if if, bla bla bla no second chance. that way valve would benefit hacking. imagine u have a team u get a hacker "u know" and u get through qualifiers, then he gets banned u get a stand in and everything is fine.. sure.. then the cheating would never stop among pro players
2014-11-24 02:14
0
srsly i dont understand that... firstly titan basically "stole" spot at dhw from ldlc and now they are complaining? ofc thats its ONLY TITANS FAULT.you had fcking cheater in your team who even admited it,what the hell do you expect? that valve will let you play in their major for 250k? like srsly:D? jesus fcking christ this is beyond my understanding and this is like one of the stupidest statement which i have ever read
2014-11-24 08:20
0
1 reply
#272
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Switzerland LeTemplar
It is beyond my understanding that some people don't realise how ridiculous this is. In order to ban an entire team you would OBVIOUSLY need to prove AT LEAST that the team managers are involved in cheating. Does valve has such proofs ? No.
2014-11-24 14:53
0
#262
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia Lithium1
Imagine if FIFA banned Messi and as a result disqualify barcelona from participating in the champions league. At the press conference all FIFA says is "Messi banned" and leave. This is exactly whats happened here. CS isn't ever going to be legitamte sport if its going to be run like this. Oh you're an athlete and you've tested positive for doping?? "Would you like to see the path results incriminating you?? lol fuck off we work for valve and dont have to show evidence"
2014-11-24 09:35
0
1 reply
you should realize that giving out evidence here is like giving advantage to coders with new cheats... they got vac ban and they admited that they used cheats.which evidence do you need?
2014-11-24 10:02
0
#264
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
tabseN | 
France shoxAttorney
I see a huge potential problem that hasnt aroused yet. What if a former team member gets vacced? Let's say fifflaren gets a vac ban or aizy. Surely Volvo must disqualify NIP and dignitas then, when they know the players cheated during or before Cologne or whatever. But they cant do so if they never give out details about the ban. Sparing the team however, just because the player left a week before his VACation would also be ridiculous. To prevent it, they must clear the reasons for VAC bans on pro players.
2014-11-24 10:19
0
1 reply
#269
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Elador
+1
2014-11-24 13:19
0
#266
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Italy Pompo92
Face it, ban wave is finished. Flusha is clean.
2014-11-24 11:02
0
#267
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark niko3688
KQLY himself said the ban was justified, what is Titan trying to argue? Come on..
2014-11-24 11:38
0
#270
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World subzer000
:D
2014-11-24 14:44
0
#271
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Switzerland LeTemplar
I just completely agree : banning entire teams from DHW IS injustice.
2014-11-24 14:50
0
#278
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World oakstronda
KennyS, I miss you!
2014-11-24 18:46
0
#280
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil bzkAA
True Words, I agree with him
2014-11-24 19:05
0
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.

Back to comment

Now playing
Thumbnail for stream
Brazil
MADHOUSE TV
17891 viewers
Top streams
All(64)
Casters(45)
Streamers(12)
Organizers(7)
Brazil
MADHOUSE TV
(17891)
Brazil
gaules
(9964)
Other
PGL
(8165)
Brazil
gaules
(4778)
Other
Thunderpick
(3340)
Russia
Paragon
(2910)
Other
PGL 2
(2565)
Russia
watchfulTV
(2019)
Brazil
gaules
(1801)
Russia
watchfulTV B
(1445)
Argentina
forg1
(1212)
Brazil
boltz
(1099)
Russia
Paragon 3
(925)
Brazil
fer
(880)
Argentina
forg1
(877)
Russia
HappyChucky
(850)
Brazil
nak
(721)
Russia
poka
(697)
Ukraine
Maincast
(640)
Belgium
ScreaM
(588)
Poland
IzakOOO
(583)
United States
Trottah
(491)
United States
freakazoid
(479)
Russia
m4ga
(440)
Brazil
mch
(439)
United States
Stewie2k
(436)
Russia
Paragon 2
(421)
Romania
Werty
(421)
Russia
SBolt
(398)
Argentina
elmorocho7
(314)
Ukraine
Maincast 2
(273)
France
KRL
(235)
United Kingdom
ESL TV
(230)
United States
Trucklover86
(188)
Brazil
mch
(168)
Finland
pelaajat
(167)
Brazil
VitinhO
(156)
France
Croissant Strike
(146)
Mongolia
maaRaa
(139)
Brazil
kabrafps
(132)
Russia
jmqa
(128)
Brazil
XISTERA
(123)
Other
PGL
(118)
Mongolia
Zilkenberg
(107)
Brazil
coldzera
(89)
Brazil
Tris_Mara
(87)
Other
PGL 2
(69)
Russia
Paragon
(58)
Kazakhstan
Paragon
(58)
Brazil
gaules TV 2
(46)
Brazil
BTSBrasilTV
(38)
United States
Regent
(37)
Brazil
VilacaTTV
(35)
Brazil
Napa
(30)
France
KRL 2
(25)
Brazil
gaules TV
(25)
United States
Trottah
(25)
Finland
Elisa Esports
(13)
United States
iamfusiion
(12)
Ukraine
WOLF
(6)
Brazil
kabrafps
(5)
Ukraine
Maincast
(2)
Brazil
BTSBrasilFPS
(1)
Brazil
JokerBR (YouTube)
(1)