Round 4 matchups determined after NAVI, FaZe falter on day two of EU RMR A

18-4-2022 21:06

The third day of EU RMR A will see another three teams book spots at PGL Major Antwerp and another three eliminated.

The second day of the PGL Major Antwerp EU RMR A has come to an end, seeing HEROIC and BIG earn Legends spots after they came out on top against Natus Vincere and FaZe, respectively, in the first round of qualifying matches.

The day also brought an end to the tournament hopes of GamerLegion and QUAZAR, who fell in the elimination matches, while the 1-1 matchups marked a handful of upsets as well, notably with OG falling to FORZE, Outsiders dropping to MOUZ, and SAW coming out on top of a match against fnatic.

FaZe take on MOUZ for their second chance at a spot in the Legends Stage

The third day of the RMR will see another three teams make it through to the Major, notably with one of SAW or FORZE guaranteed to make it through in the first match of the day. Following that, Vitality and Natus Vincere will face off, with the 2-1 pool coming to an end with a match between FaZe and MOUZ at the end of the day.

Should FaZe win that match, they are almost guaranteed through as Legends thanks to their Bucholz score, in which case the winners of the other two 2-1 games would face off in a fourth place tiebreaker to determine the last team to advance as Legends.

However, should MOUZ win instead, the team that will directly advance is harder to determine as Vitality and Natus Vincere could both take it instead, with there even being an off-chance of SAW going straight through depending on results, including a scenario where they would get the spot over FaZe even if they win in the event that OG lose to Unique.

While the 2-1 matches will take place on the A stream, elimination games will play out simultaneously throughout the day on the B stream, kicking off with OG fighting for their tournament lives against Unique. After that, fnatic will take on Eternal Fire, with a final match between Outsiders and Dignitas closing out the day.

Here is the schedule for day three of Europe RMR A:

2-1 pool (BO3)
11:00 SAW vs. FORZE (A stream)
14:45 Natus Vincere vs. Vitality (A stream)
18:30 FaZe vs. MOUZ (A stream)

1-2 pool (BO3)
11:00 OG vs. Unique (B stream)
14:45 fnatic vs. Eternal Fire (B stream)
18:30 Outsiders vs. Dignitas (B stream)

actual good draw, nice

2022-04-18 21:07

5 replies

its 3rd day of RMR and ppl still dont understand the system and cry about every matchup major.ieb.im/22rmr_antwerp

2022-04-18 21:15

3 replies

yes why are they playing off of the round difference and not seed all the time? thats what i dont understand how number 1 and 4 in seed can play eachother while 5 6 10 15 are also at 2-1

2022-04-18 22:10

1 reply

I believe you're talking about Navi and Vitality as #1 & #4. Those seeds are the starting seeds. As each stage pass, the seeds are adjusted based on the seed of the opponent and your result (win or lose). Navi is now seeded lower than Saw because they only won two matches against lower seeded teams. Here, do some reading about Buchholz System being used here, also: csgo.com/news/57650-the-buchholz-system-..

2022-04-18 22:31

That made it so much easier to understand. Thanks David Beckham.

2022-04-19 00:02

I think we can all agree no one wants the toxic kid to make it to the major

2022-04-19 00:48

ez4saw

saw and forze dont deserve a spot

13 replies

explain who deserves more? VP? OG? Fnatic? kekw

2022-04-18 21:12

2022-04-18 21:20

G2 is Group B you Genius.

2022-04-19 04:25

All the other 2-1 teams. It’s not that they don’t deserve to be 2-1. They just don’t deserve to face each other, now one of them will qualify without beating a single good team, while the good ones play each other.

2022-04-19 08:12

if Saw win, doesnt mattter what else happens, they will qualify for Legends

2022-04-18 21:33

Not if Faze wins, then they will end 4th

2022-04-19 10:50

They are winnig their games, why they do not deserve??? Also them both lost to 3-0 team (Heroic and BIG), sooo

2022-04-18 21:39

4 replies

They wont have played a single good team

2022-04-18 22:24

But why are people being mad at SAW - forZe match? KEKL There could be OG - Fnatic (not good teams), so wasted spot too?

2022-04-18 22:59

Saw played BIG and Forze played Heroic. you should´ve said that they haven´t won against a "good" team.

2022-04-18 23:12

Yeah thats what i meant its total bs the 2 lowest teams in the 2-1 bracket get to play eachother

2022-04-19 00:45

what if it was fnatic vs og? These teams overcame Fnatic and OG.

2022-04-18 23:26

I'd say OG is better than all of them. Forze won in a bo1 that went overtime. It think OG would win that match 7 out of 10 times.

2022-04-19 09:32

forze

ooof

Come on Faze Clan

EZ 4 f0rest

2 replies

Unfortunately it’s gonna be the end of the line for the legend

2022-04-18 21:21

yep, can't see them beating Vp sadly :/

2022-04-18 23:47

navi vs vitality? again a nice tournment with random tier 2 teams qualifying with easy matchs. they make seeding playing lotery or are biased?

2022-04-18 21:09

21 replies

when navi play against quazar and gets free win 😀 when play against equally strong opponent 😡

2022-04-18 21:24

This

2022-04-18 21:26

do you know what is seeding? it s to avoid getting the best teams to be elimianted and make a boring competiton with tier 2 teams in the final stage. it make complete sense when it s done right

2022-04-18 21:31

10 replies

best teams are qualifying now, like heroic and big

2022-04-18 21:45

8 replies

and like saw or forze wihtout playing one single tier 1 team

2022-04-18 21:53

7 replies

forze won og so they deserve where they are but saw hell fucking no

2022-04-18 22:14

6 replies

saw played vs BIG on the first match... logic...

2022-04-18 22:17

and lost......

2022-04-18 22:34

faze lost as well mate and it was a bo3 series

2022-04-19 00:17

what im trying to say is that if saw go to the major they only beat one of the worst teams here (unique) a trash fnatic and lost to the only decent team (big) and they will qualify by beating another tier3team? really? thats just dumb luck they dont deserve to be there. good thing forze will win

2022-04-19 00:19

Are you saying that BIG is a "decent" team?! they beat FAZE (top 1 hltv) in a very expressive way and they are looking super good. Are you calling Forze a tier 3 team when they are in a really good shape and top25 hltv? Bro, they desearve this. Especially after the game against OG. And if you don't see that its because you are dumb or something.. its going to be a great game and may the best win VAMOS SAW, VAMOS CARALHO

2022-04-19 00:35

Do you think SAW would be able to consistently beat half of the teams in this RMR? If yes, they deserve it, if no, they don't. I don't think they would. Forze is more deserved than SAW. And BIG is BIG. They have a good qualifier and will just bomb out of the tournament doing nothing and screwing with everyone's pickems/fantasy etc.

2022-04-19 09:36

LUL true

2022-04-19 00:15

omg rules have been out for weeks round difference

my point is why low tier teams have to play against tier ones and tier one gets free qualifier?? just questioning this, i think everything fair

2022-04-18 21:57

ROUND DIFFERENCE A (2-1) goes 16-14 16-14 14-16 A is +2 B (2-1) goes 16-0 16-0 0-16 B is +16 Both are (2-1) but B gets higher seed and plays lowest seed. Usually doesn’t go to more tiebreakers. Doesn’t matter what you think about who “deserves” what

2022-04-18 22:27

But do you think this is the best way to do so? This bracket shows it's still a scuffed way of seeding.

2022-04-19 09:37

Because two favorites lost. Any other seeding would have also seen two "good" teams against each other.

2022-04-19 10:07

If they just used the seeding as defined in the beginning of the tournament without changes, it wouldn't have been this bad. It's not as much that two favourites are against each other. It's more that two 'lesser' teams are against each other and one of them is guaranteed to advance, while if they each faced one of the better teams, they'd get stomped. This is what would happen if they just kept the seeding.

2022-04-19 14:01

Edit: I can't read apparently. Been awake 37 hours straight

2022-04-18 21:49

Wtf Navi vs Vita

SAW stickers would be dope

2022-04-18 21:08

Lol

GL Eternal Fire

So one of trash tier 4 teams forze/saw will be at the major guaranteed? Is there a worse system than this lmao?

2022-04-18 21:10

Diversity spot

2022-04-18 21:11

zzz

sorry but it´s faze fault :)

2022-04-18 21:16

Blame NAVI and Faze

2022-04-18 21:17

Forze is not t4 lol

Blame the number one team in the world, the matchups would have been fine if the katowice and epl winners would beat berlin international gaming.

2022-04-18 21:34

Im not here to blame anyone. Im just amazed that system, where to get into major you just need to beat Gamer Legion, OG and Saw, actually exists lol.

2022-04-18 22:15

Real unlucky for Dig :(((

2022-04-18 21:14

Outsiders have been playing like garbage lately, f0rest and co. might upset

Really? I hope so!!

2022-04-18 21:56

pls ef win this

worst year of cs i can remember for now, they managed to make this game even more random.

2022-04-18 21:19

18 replies

And that's bad? Imagine you enter a match always knowing that the best will win, that's the fun of every sport.

17 replies

not in group stage? you would enjoy a final with saw that avoided all tier 1 team to get there? to get 16/05 final on all maps of a major ? wow amazing ! the best teams should meet on the quater semi and finals. not some random tier 2 teams that qualify cause of biased seeding. what you say is exaclty what will happen in the later stage of the competion if some random tier 2 teams qualify by luck

2022-04-18 21:38

16 replies

I like to watch the finals of teams that deserved to be there, whether they are underdogs or not. If a favorite isn't there, for me the team didn't deserve it, even if instead it would have made a more balanced final.

2022-04-18 21:36

yes exaclty teams need to deserve to be there.. to deserve to be there you need to play the best teams and not avoiding them otherwise we end with disbalanced matchs . forze and saw haven t played a tier 1 team yet

2022-04-18 21:42

So let's disregard the team of all champions of Major events that entered an easier bracket? The seeding was already decided before the event even started, so far I haven't seen any crying, as most of them believed that the favorites would win, but since now they lost, do you want to change the seedings?

2022-04-18 21:43

The seedings are changing during the event based on round-difference. If the seeding was the same as at the start of the event, this wouldn't happen. SAW now has a really good chance of getting through in a way they normally wouldn't.

2022-04-19 09:41

Just as Forze and SAW deserve this Legends Spots, they did their homework, while the favorites were incompetent and didn't. That simple

Life is not a strawberry

they didn t play against a tier 1 team how they deserve to be there? navi played heroic vitality played faze ,forze and saw players tier 2 teams.. wtf are these seeding?

2022-04-18 21:46

They deserved it because they entered the seeding that was determined for them before the event even started and won their games. Something the favorites didn't do even when facing worse teams, simple as that, having to explain the same thing for the third time

no you don t get it... navi lost to heroic one of the best team in the world and vitality to faze, the numer 1.. how they are supposed to win? get a brain the system is broken

2022-04-18 21:48

And why did they face each other? Because they have the same score, which I've been trying to explain to you for over 10 minutes, teams that have a similar history have to fight to get the best placements in this format. A 2-0 team cannot face a GamerLegion, a Unique, a Dignitas to get the spot.

2022-04-18 21:51

Vitality played against Faze, NAVI against Heroic because the 4 teams advanced from the first game to 1-0 and NAVI and Heroic to 2-0, consequently having to face opponents with an equal score. Have you never seen a Swiss format before?

2022-04-18 21:47

yes it s always been broken like bad groups stage to me , some teams qualify even if they are not the best ones..i don t like this random part, i want the competiton to be more fair. navi vs forze or saw would have made more sense if there is a seeding, the best team should qualify , not teams that dodges the best teams

As I said before, the seedings are determined even before the event starts, the only thing that the favorites need to do is win their games, so they don't have to worry if they lose a decision game and end up having to fight for the spot against another team who also shouldn't have lost to someone with the same score. The only culprit behind the last Legends Spot wave was between NAVI vs. Vitality were NAVI's own team

2022-04-18 21:54

thanks for explaing, but it still not make sense.. the best teams should qualify, not teams who dodges the best teams , so this system is broken , it should be adjusted on the fly with proper seeding. the day one of the best team in the world dosent qualify and a tier 2 team does by playing zero top 10 teams , this system will be adjusted... but they can do it before that happen

As i said following your logic, we will have to disregard several titles of teams that were champions by deserving but entered an easier bracket. Would it be fair too? however in this case the seedings were determined before the event started, there is no possibility of change, it wouldn't even be fair to SAW and ForZe who did their homework

2022-04-18 22:19

EZ4BIG

Wow shitty draw

2022-04-18 21:23

Forze vs. Saw for a spot at the major? This is worse than SA-qual lol

2022-04-18 21:27

At least we know for sure the team that's going to go out before playoffs

2022-04-18 21:44

Lets go dig! I believe

2022-04-18 21:32

Don't blame the bucholtz seeding, blame FaZe! They screwed up the matchups with their unexpected L.

This was really expected to happen that one of the top10 teams won't make it even if one single upset happens, it's actually valve's fault that they didn't care to atleast have 1 more rmr to kinda remove the randomness of the format, also the way are groups A & B are distributed is horrendous

2022-04-19 04:50

this drawing system is a fucking joke SAW is 2-1 just like Vitality who faced Faze and then now Navi.. imagine going through this group only playing againt tier 2 shits xdd

"Mooom, my favorite team lost the deciding game, it's the format's fault"

2022-04-18 21:55

PGL being a f*cking joke as a T.O again...surprise. That 2-1 draw is tragic.

dude... it's not a draw... Rules have been out way before the tournament started, you could calculate all the permutations to orgasm, if you wanted to, before the 1st match. major.ieb.im/22rmr_antwerp

2022-04-18 22:06

SAW vs forZe for a spot while NAVI, FaZe, VIT and Mouz are fighting for 2 spots. Talking about unlucky.

I don't understand your logic... the losers of both 2 matches are getting another chance after that one... so... for me they are fighting for 4 spots in the end unlucky for Fnatic, OG and Outsiders because they should have bean the teams in contention for a major spot. But Fnatic lost to sAw and OG to Forze so... they got into this alone and not by the system's magic.

2022-04-18 22:12

It is not about elimination as these are 2-1 matches. However, one of the weakest teams will qualify while the 4 top teams will need to play vs each others. Of course they would prefer playing vs weaker teams instead of each others. That's the unlucky part.

2022-04-19 11:04

damn, this is a bitter pill to swallow for Dig, if they would have just beat EF :/

This seeding is awful. Both SAW and Forze should play against stronger opponents.

2022-04-18 21:58

Free pass for Saw or Forze

2022-04-18 22:04

Saw and Forze only teams in this tournament to only lose to 3-0 locked in legend teams feelsgoodman

2022-04-18 22:16

there's no way navi has to face vitality, having teams like forze and saw still there, wtf is this system??

Yeah buchholz system is a bit confusing. The first two rounds were based on seeding, but starting from the third round, the Buchholz system is used. So why Navi and Vita will play against eachother? Thats because both Navi and Vita have -1 Buchholz score and they basically in the middle of 2-1 scoreboard, therefore, if we apply the system as before in which the best plays with the worst, it makes sense. ibb.co/bHQpPnP Perhaps you want to ask from what this Bucholz score is formed? The Bucholz system counts the total number of wins and losses for teams with which, for example, Navi has played before. Example: Navi have played against Quazar, OG and Heroic before so now we should look at the results of these teams to calculate the Buholz score, where one victory (for example, for og) is +1 point for navi, and a loss is -1 Quazar - 3 loses: total score -3 points OG - 2 loses, 1 win; total score -1 point Heroic - 3 wins; Total score +3 points Now we add up all these numbers and It turns out that by the 4th round Navi have -1 score. Now we do the same with Vita and it turns out that this team also has -1 Bucholz point.

2022-04-18 23:00

+1 and why they start using this system now and don't continue with seed

2022-04-18 23:19

i don't know, but it was used at Stockholm major and at Faceit Major 2018 but for some reason the system was scrapped at Berlin and Katowice majors in 2019

2022-04-18 23:24

Yeah, in Kato 2019 teams ranked each other to create a ranking and in Berlin they just converted teams hltv ranking into flexible elo, both of these were much better than this..

2022-04-19 05:36