Community reacts to MR12 introduction to Counter-Strike 2

4-9-2023 10:25

The new system has left the community divided on social media.

MR12 was for a period the competitive standard in Counter-Strike 1.6

Valve has introduced a new match format to Counter-Strike 2's Limited Test, limiting each half to a maximum of 12 rounds (MR12). The developers previously added MR12 to practice mode, but have now extended the new system to Premier and Competitive modes as well as future Major tournaments.

The change was introduced with the aim of reducing match length and balancing out the changes to the in-game economy introduced over the last five years.

Valve confirm move to MR12 for Majors; introduce CS rating, release Inferno

Reactions on social media have been mixed, with some welcoming the update and Valve's initiative to enact drastic changes while some have been skeptical MR12 will work.

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There are also concerns regarding tournament organizers' willingness to use the shorter matches to pack more fixtures in a day.

Tres "⁠stunna⁠" Saranthus and Alex "⁠Machine⁠" Richardson were also able to ask Vitality's stars as well as Galder "⁠bladE⁠" Barcena for their opinions on the change during ESL Pro League S18.

What is your opinion on the new system? Do you believe MR12 will solve the match length issues, or will it just encourage teams to save more?

It's alright

2023-09-04 10:26

18 replies

For noobs and casuals, yeah it is. Imagine majors qualifiers with MR12 BO1s. Clownfiesta

2023-09-04 18:12

17 replies

The reason for shorter matches was to eliminate as many BO1s as possible and make BO3s less time consuming.

2023-09-04 19:05

16 replies

They are still going to use bo1s in open qualifiers

2023-09-04 19:58

Then it's counterproductive, since playing mr12 bo3 will take more time than more balanced mr15 bo1. wtf?

2023-09-04 20:25

3 replies

Bo1 IS and will stay unbalanced, valve can't keep going with this format. even more with mr12

2023-09-04 20:38

2 replies

So what is the point of bringing mr12 in and make it bo3, if it's going to take even more time to play games, when the aim was to reduce the playtime of a single match?

2023-09-04 20:41

Also mr12 will just make bo3's more random, since there will be less gun rounds, and outcomes of halves will be decided if you get a few lucky taps with FN on the forcebuy

2023-09-04 20:42

There’s literally zero trustable sources indicating that. If they change the format to BO3 it would be a way of mitigating the changes, not the reason why they changed it. The real reason is that Valve is trying to make the game more appealing to the TikTok generation - dopamine addicted teenargers that can’t focus on a thing if it lasts longer than 30 minutes, and of course directly compete with Valulrant to bring in casuals.

2023-09-04 20:46

9 replies

CSGO already has MR9. That is the "tiktok generation" game mode and yet they're getting rid of it. CS was MR12 in 1.6, this isn't some new shit that Valorant brought to the game.

2023-09-04 21:31

“CS WaS mR12 oN 1.6” Yeah, for a few years and then we moved to MR15 because is superior. This isn’t an argument. Btw all the 1.6 events weren’t sponsored by Valve, so the MR12 thing was never official. It’s not like the MR15 “experiment” failed and then were going back to the “origins”, they’re changing it because they think is going to make it more marketable and sell more.

2023-09-04 21:39

Here's the deal bucko, if they tried to make this game marketable and to sell more, they would've changed Ts to Attackers and CTs to Defenders. You know, the major reason why people don't sponsor CS events? Association with the term "terrorists"? Also, MR12 hasn't failed either yet.

2023-09-04 23:44

1 reply

Well I bet there are voices inside Valve advocating for this change for the reasons you exposed but maybe they ended up thinking it would change a core aspect of the game and the community would see them as pussies for bending to the political correctness. We can’t never know, but the change to MD12 making the game more marketable to the audience and casual players is an opinion shared by various experts just like one or two opinions embed in the text above.

2023-09-05 00:38

According to a dev (not verified) on reddit, half of the games in mm where short matches and half long ones, so they decided to bring this middleground to see if it has a positive impact. He said too, that with faster games they would try to get rid of bo1 games as much as they can. So probably he's talking about major, maybe open qualis or first rounds that used to be 3 bo1s, who knows.

2023-09-04 21:38

4 replies

Yeah no shit people are playing short matches, most of players don’t have a full stack to play, so they obviously choose the MD8. If I’m solo-Q I’m not spending 1 hour of my life playing with randoms that either don’t have mic or are trolls or Argentinians that keep calling me a monkey lol. But when I’m with my friends we always play regular matches or GC/Faceit MD15. They should’ve created a casual queue for MD8/12 and keep competitive matches MD15 so the majors and pro matches would’ve stayed MD15 and new players or solo would’ve still have a way to play.

2023-09-04 23:19

Maybe final major can move to bo5 now, that would be nice

2023-09-04 23:37

I only get to play MR15 when I solo Q or play FACEIT, all of my friends want to play short matches otherwise. It's like your experience =/= the truth.

2023-09-04 23:46

What’s your elo? I find it very hard to have any serious group of players here on my city that plays normal MM outside of GC/Faceit let alone those who plays short matches for serious. But yeah, my experience isn’t the full picture or truth and maybe I’m being too pessimistic but I don’t like this being implemented on pro matches at all. Nowadays I care much more about watching games than playing it anyway lol

2023-09-05 00:32

Ok then everything should be B03's then. I do not want to see anything that is B01 and finals of every torny should be B05.

2023-09-04 21:32

Yo les noobs, It will be shit until they balance the economy, and after that it will still be shit.

2023-09-04 10:29

8 replies

The change was introduced with the aim of reducing match length and balancing out the changes to the in-game economy introduced over the last five years. It's already balanced

2023-09-04 10:31

6 replies

It's not balanced at all, pistol rounds are the most random rounds in the game and now they're even more important to the chances of winning the game than ever. You need viable second round force buy options for it to be balanced like when the Tec-9 and UMP were OP which currently do not exist.

2023-09-04 10:51

2023-09-04 13:32

I literally quoted what the post says

2023-09-04 17:57

Now just imagine for a second if you win pistol, and lose the next one, bruh, now try and come back from that one

2023-09-04 20:47

If they made the Tec-9 and UMP OP again then it wouldn't matter since they could force into these in the 3rd round.

2023-09-04 22:10

No it's not. With MR12 teams will need max 2 eco rounds per game, otherwise it's ruined.

2023-09-04 11:02

bruh, if you lose both pistols and both force-buys it's half of the rounds the other team needs to at least get the OT, and if you lose first gun round (Which is going to be a little worse than your opponents') on top of that it's basically over for you. Sure, comebacks are going to be even more impressive, but borderline non-existent

2023-09-04 20:30

I played CS2 and felt that a successful rush by Tec9+VEST on the T-side would have given me a significant advantage. Also, we had less calls for 2-eco-rounds in the team.

another trash change by valve 🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱😭🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱 csgo clears

2023-09-04 10:32

2023-09-04 10:44

even splatoon 3 clears cs2

2023-09-04 10:53

2023-09-04 10:33

hooxi should be happy that g2 doesnt have a chance to choke at 14/15

2023-09-04 10:34

lol

2023-09-04 13:13

???¿? Community feedback Literally nobodies except maybe some casters or desk analysts LUL

bait

2023-09-04 11:22

Pretty sure that isn't the case.

2023-09-04 13:38

illiterate

2023-09-04 16:15

Unnecessary..

2023-09-04 10:36

did poloolpp say anything?

2023-09-04 10:38

He hates it

2023-09-04 14:48

BO1 should not be used anymore once MR12 is live.

2023-09-04 10:41

lmao "community"

actually it's MR24, not MR12

2023-09-04 10:42

"actually"☝️🤓

2023-09-04 13:22

🤓 EKSHULY

2023-09-04 15:17

🤓 actual content

2023-09-04 15:24

No, it's MR12 as in "max rounds [per half].

2023-09-04 17:17

Not sure how i feel about MR12 yet, it might not be a good idea if valve doesnt adjust economy. I did play MR12 back in 1.5 and 1.6 respectively, but dont remember the feeling anymore, but if they leave pistol rounds and economy the same way it is now without any adjustments then I think its gonna be bad, but if they remove pistols and give more startmoney then it might be fine, but i love pistol rounds, so dont want pistol rnds removed, but sadly they’ll still do what they feel like as they dont care that much bout competitive players’ oppinions and rather go with what casuals might prefer, which is sad… twitter.com/Thorin/status/16983758644659.. …but ya, i should be fine with MR12 as long as they make sure both teams have equal chances of winning regardless of who wins the pistol rnd(s). Its on valve to figure out how to do that, should ask pros and analysts and then everyone will adjust and eventually embrace the change. We’ll have to wait and see how it pans out at events :) gl hf

2023-09-04 10:50

"i should be fine with MR12 as long as they make sure both teams have equal chances of winning regardless of who wins the pistol rnd(s)" Maybe you didn't phrase this correctly, but as it stands it doesn't make sense. Why would winning the pistol make no difference on the chances? Going 1-0 up should give you a better chance of winning than going 0-1 down

2023-09-04 11:40

I remember those days. Lots more force buys and keeping SMGs for an extra rush round to save some dollars (when the mp5 was decent!). Plus if you lost the third round without buying you could hard reset the opponent's economy - lots of pressure on that 4th round. The game was much more economy focused. Remember when you had to buy primary and secondary ammo? 😂 Valve really have to adjust the economy to make MR12 work. I thought they would have got some good insight using the "short matches" data but this seems to have been ignored. Some great suggestions by the pros and analysts on this. It would be great to see a HLTV article exploring the different options to make MR12 work (best options to reduce the number of uncompetitive rounds). Apologies if this has been done and I've missed it!

2023-09-04 15:09

Yea, so the community reacts are totally irrelevant, especially for valve. Btw, the bo1 matches was already a joke on a major and it will be worse with mr12...

2023-09-04 10:49

Good old times 15-16 years ago playing mr12 in esl ladders,13th round won didnt end the match as you needed to play full map,actually this gonna be good change,more dynamic matches :) some changes in economy and community will be pleased

2023-09-04 10:52

In my opinion, for the majors especially, Valve should be working towards making the game less random and more sports-like. Sadly this is a step to the wrong direction and aimed to lure in such viewers that don't exist. For casual player its probably better to have shorter matches. For faceit already I don't think so. And Valve wants to keep the game as same as possible for pros and casuals, thats in the core of this problem.

2023-09-04 10:56

They have MR7 matchmaking games for casuals, so I don't think that's the reason.

2023-09-04 11:04

I would like to see a random pro tournament with mr7 rather than mr12.

2023-09-04 12:19

What are you guys talking about with this mr7 ? Never seen such thing

2023-09-05 10:36

Short matches. Never played it myself but I'm almost sure it's MR7.

2023-09-05 10:57

Mr12 is too random

2023-09-04 11:27

Imagine having a CS match with just one round, but the round is 10 minutes and everyone has 16k at start.

2023-09-05 10:58

Saving is part of what makes CS a tactical game, why would anyone want to remove that? I've played CO rules, MR12 and MR15 and MR15 is the best by far. You can come in a match slowly and get rekt, have time to comeback, other team can comeback too and it allows game to have full stories. What story are you going to tell in MR12? It's too short. If a team wins both pistols the game is almost over. Its uninteresting and removes the depth of what makes CS a legendary game.

2023-09-04 11:39

Agreed. At very least they have to remove the pistol rounds by giving more money to teams in beginning. Saving is core mechanic of the game. What really is the issue is that saving often takes way too long time when nothing happens. Fixing that is of course harder than mr12 and it isn't really a problem in most matches. Also just because its mr12 does not mean there is less saving per rounds played.

2023-09-04 13:42

saving is core mechanic but pistol round isn't? such bs

2023-09-04 15:05

Since you are like that, let me be more specific: The system that, if you are alive when the round ends, you get to keep the stuff, including weapons, you are holding, is a core element of this game. Saving is just that taken further. This element affects pretty much every round that is played in this game, including the pistol round. Pistol rounds are essentially a normal round in which both teams have same limited amount of money in use and pistol round starts every half. I don't think its a core element to have exactly such amount of money in play that doesn't let you purchase full armor or other weapons than pistol. It could really be any amount. And even then, it only affect those two specific rounds per map.

2023-09-04 17:09

tbf in mr12 almost every other round is going to be a save, since eco-ing now means you give even more advantage to the other team

Might very well happen. Which would be quite hilarious since thats exactly what Valve should not want to happen with this change.

2023-09-04 21:34

+1000

2023-09-05 10:39

having to bring in rando tweets from @keblorb1 to push this narrative that MR12 is good???

2023-09-04 11:54

To see leaderboard score before match will make the game most toxic.After I get my 5k+elo 😂😂 before even game starts if you say like go A on first round they start talking and said "Mr 5k elo learn us the games,etc.) We will have fun watching kids be crazy about elo of opponents

2023-09-04 12:11

Then you go to forums and get reality checked lol

2023-09-04 12:16

MR15 should still be standard for competetive and majors imo, short matches can be MR12.

2023-09-04 12:31

Where is that bladE’s opinion?

2023-09-04 12:32

cant believe you include a guy called walleDA1337 and mauisnake instead of community figureheads like Nikola "Lobanjica" Mijomanović

2023-09-04 12:53

Guy called walleDA1337.... Lol, Walle is cs legend newfag

2023-09-04 14:20

5 replies

who? not as legendary as loba

2023-09-04 14:31

Please educate me, who the fuck is walleDA1337

2023-09-04 15:27

One of the best clutchers of 1.6, without a doubt.

2023-09-04 16:32

Legendary 1.6 player known for being AWPer and (later in his career) IGL. Played in teams with HeatoN, RobbaN, SpawN, zet, allen, ins, Tentpole and other pros.

2023-09-04 17:22

Dude is almost 40 years we don't care about his opinion lmao

2023-09-05 10:40

Having played MR12 myself now, it does feel at times rather short. However in a competetive aspect I can see it working out to reduce the length of Bo3/Bo5 matches, which should benefit both players and viewers. Ultimately it will come down to the question if Valve will be able to create a working econemy around it or not.

2023-09-04 12:57

They should have just kept the other form that they had with both Long and short matches available. So, everyone can enjoy there own playtime without being restricted for longer or shorter games. This MR12 won't stick unless they break the meta in terms of money as well as guns, to ensure 2nd round buy can be threatening, which at the moment is just impossible. U do get some deagle heroics every now and then but it doesn't help when its an either DO or DIE situation nerves bcoz getting 0-3 down in a 13 round win game is just not a good thing for the game itself.

2023-09-04 12:58

git gud

2023-09-04 17:44

3/8 OK bait

2023-09-04 18:25

I think now it should be 6 instead of 8 so 3/6???

2023-09-04 18:46

makes sense Lets call it 2/6 then

2023-09-04 19:54

mr12 fix: every final is bo5

2023-09-04 13:02

I'm okay with MR12 if we get more BO5 matches.

2023-09-04 13:18

Aside from MR12 - what Valve really needs to fix or minimize are these type of situations below: (C) “ Queuing solo in CS:GO and being matched against five-man parties has long been an issue. Naturally, these kinds of matches are often unfair, since the five-man lobby should have an advantage due to being able to effectively communicate together. On the other hand, it’s not tough to run into some trolls during your solo adventures in matchmaking. “I kept getting matched against 5-stack teams who play together and coordinate their gameplay. Meanwhile, my team consists of 4 strangers, any of whom could tilt at any moment and decide to ruin the game for the rest of us,” the author wrote. There is a simple solution to this glaring issue. Players believe restricting five-man stacks from being put against solo players would be the simplest one. On top of that, they underline how Dota 2 already has such options, despite having a much smaller player base in Europe than CS:GO.” Taken from dotesports.com/counter-strike/news/this-..

2023-09-04 13:27

It’s good to see that everyone aside from Thorin, which is kinda typical, welcome CS2/MR12, I don’t play MR15 in MM anymore, it’s bad if you have a bad team I don’t like to sit through with them then but if it’s MR8 it’s quickly over at least, while being a bit short so, I welcome MR12 as the perfect mix of both worlds and as a viewer it’s a even bigger + as matches were simply too long. These days I watch csgo less and less and MR12 will maybe bring back more interest in me again to watch it. That’s my take That being said, they have to change the Bo1 in RMR and Major stages to Bo3 now, if they don’t do that, it will be a terrible mess otherwise. GabeN pls

Pointless change imho, are those 6 rounds going to matter during a Bo3 or in MM? Yes everyone should play under the same ruleset but why not have unranked or casual as short match and ranked normal MR15? I just don't see how this is beneficial in any way

2023-09-04 13:46

if they make sure every tournament has BO3 I am fine with MR12

2023-09-04 14:17

"community" is not equal to vocal minority on twitter

2023-09-04 14:36

Good. Cba watchin 4+ hour bo3's.

2023-09-04 14:42

16k to start with and then we gucci

2023-09-04 15:20

I love watching a long game tho. It’s not like if you are a pro cs fan you’re gonna feel like the match is just dragging. You are entertained for hours in a close bo3. NFL games are extremely long for what it is. But I understand the viewpoint of mr12 for matchmaking. More people will have time to play a full game and brings more new people to the game maybe. But I feel you should be able to choose between mr15 and mr12 in mm. Just adjust the loss bonuses and shit. Then everyone who plays mm will be happy. And I’d prefer to keep the mr15 for anything outside of mm. But even faceit could offer both for the people who don’t love long games. I’m not even totally against the entire scene using one or the other depending what tournament it is. Why does it have to be a decision set in stone. Professionals could adjust to both

2023-09-04 15:49

pistol rounds will be more important in mr12

2023-09-04 16:26

With mr12 faze would have won the major vs c9 That tells everything you need to know. Mr12 is for noobs

Mr12 is trash and valve is stupid. Change back now. Short games blow.

2023-09-04 16:50

baitF and Jame going to end matches with 0 deaths now

2023-09-04 16:56

"Do you believe MR12 will solve the match length issues" What issue?? That's entirely subjective, not objective truth, I never considered current MR15 as an issue, I quite enjoy seeing double OT BO3 matches, kinda makes it just even more exciting who wins that 3rd map in particular after hrs of fighting.

2023-09-04 17:16

yeah there is no issue hltv is valve agent now, just pushing the agenda lol mr12 is shit from a competitive point of view. counterstrike is a game which is so much about momentum, going mr12 is like a snapshot of a view. so many teams run out of steam after 10+ rounds.. and the other team can make a comeback. if you are better you have to prove it. what a business, such clowns

2023-09-04 18:03

2023-09-05 10:49

+1 nobody except a few pros were whining about matches being too long and they’re making it looks like the community is asking it

2023-09-04 18:29

OG counter-strike maxrounds is back!! +creativity -time +pressure +fun

2023-09-04 17:41

Game's changed so much over the years. Now people know how to play eco rounds, how to save, how to force a break...There are no good teams who are terrible at pistols and eco rounds (probably brazilians still). MR15 is kinda useless now.

2023-09-04 18:08

Played just few games. Originally i thought it would be huge problem, but honestly it did not feel like it at all. I can see some smaller tweaks in economy, but so far only thing i can say is i like it A LOT. And if it means we no more have any BO1 in competitive CS, that is even bigger win in my opinion.

2023-09-04 19:03

dogshit change L valve

2023-09-04 19:17

Hiko should comeback to liquid can’t choke anymore those 14-8

2023-09-04 22:47

It was changed to MR15 for a reason. As the scene experienced massive growth, birthing global Esports, the change was needed. Why go back to primitive days

2023-09-04 23:06

hooxi is totally right the economy has become even more conservative now with every round being so valuable

2023-09-05 00:39

with mr12 we had a lot of bo5s back in the day... I guess that will get the standard for playoffs and Bo3 for the early stages. The best thing I remember with mr12 was the creativity and high-risk plays to put games in an early advantage

2023-09-05 01:55

MR12 XD.

2023-09-05 03:33

MR12 would probably work in bo5 series but otherwise big NO

mr12 should give more money in lost rounds if not audience and players will only see or play more forced buy rounds and less full buy rounds i dont think this is what we want

2023-09-05 12:30