What did we learn from DH Summer?

19-6-2014 18:20

We take a look at the ten most important lessons we picked up during the course of DreamHack Summer 2014, and briefly look at five that did not make the final cut.

DreamHack Summer saw favorites NiP defend their championship from last summer, while the two CIS based teams surprised with their strong performances leading to a second place finish for Na`Vi, and a narrow semi-final loss for HR.

Titan and fnatic once again disappointed, Virtus struggled, and some new teams made a little bit of noise. After such a lengthy break from LAN play, there was a lot to be learned at DreamHack.

Though you could make a list of at least twenty points of importance with relative ease, we've tried to narrow it down to ten of the most interesting and most important lessons.

Continue reading to find out what we left Jönköping with, and where the matches that took place in Southern Sweden have left the entire Counter-Strike: Global Offensive scene.

What did we learn from DreamHack Summer 2014?

The world rankings make no sense at all

We won't actually go into too much detail here for two reasons. First of all, we don't want to spoil our upcoming world rankings. Secondly, it doesn't yet make sense to update them, with ESEA Season 16 Global Finals looming in the horizon. We're going to do a proper update to our official world rankings in the beginning of July, and that's going to be one tall task.

The results of these past couple of months have been messy at best. The fact strong teams such as dignitas and LDLC decided to skip DreamHack Summer doesn't help, and we keep getting mixed results from certain teams, for example fnatic and Virtus.pro. You should not envy us when it comes to trying to decide where all these puzzle pieces fit together.

With that being said, the fact we can't properly rank all the teams right now and hope ESEA will give us more answers is great for the fans. There are now five teams who can legitimately take on NiP in a best-of-three series, and that means there are also a similar number of teams who could go onto win one of these events with the right bracket draw.

There's also a good base of teams right below that group, and that's what makes these tournaments so exciting. Though NiP still go into them as favorites because they are so ridiculously consistent, everything else is up in the air. That makes games interesting to watch, whereas earlier on in CS:GO the outcomes in quarter-finals could sometimes be too obvious.

We also can't forget about the North Americans, though compLexity have been underwhelming at best since Braxton "swag Pierce's departure, and iBUYPOWER can't seem to buy a match win outside of Dallas. If the home teams score some wins in Texas later this month, that could open things up even more. The field at the next $250,000 major at GamesCom looks to be more stacked than ever.

The next big event doesn't seem to be happening until Gfinity LAN takes place in London in the beginning of August, so teams will get to recharge their batteries over the summer before the fall season kicks off. Most online leagues are also currently on a break, but once ESEA, SLTV StarSeries and others kick back into gear, there's going to be tons of great Counter-Strike to watch, all working as a prelude to ESL's $250,000 event.

We should stay away from the world rankings for a while longer

Virtus.pro are on a downward trajectory

Before we start nit picking on one of the world's best teams, let's take a brief look at their LAN record ever since the time it seems they basically kicked into their current gear, with both Janusz "Snax" Pogorzelski and Paweł "byali" Bieliński fully accustomed to the team, and Filip "Neo" Kubski having taken over the critical in-game leader role:

Placing	Event	Prize	Lost to
1st	SLTV StarSeries VIII Finals	$7,500	-
1st	EMS One Katowice 2014	$100,000	-
2nd	Copenhagen Games 2014	6,000€	NiP
4th	SLTV StarSeries IX Finals	$4,000	Titan, NiP
5-8th	DreamHack Summer 2014	$2,000	Na`Vi

As you can see the development curve is not good if you're a Virtus.pro fan. Granted they still have yet to lose to a weak team, but it's somewhat concerning even the much awaited bootcamp Wiktor "TaZ" Wojtas spoke about in our pre-DreamHack interview didn't solve the Poles' issues, and they once again struggled to break the top three.

Now the good thing for Virtus is they've only lost against three teams so far on LAN, and those are some of the best teams around currently. Still, it seems those same teams have gone from losing against Virtus, as each of them did at either SLTV StarSeries VIII Finals or EMS One Katowice, to making enough improvements to take them down later on.

It is now up to Virtus.pro to reverse that trend and find out how to get one step ahead of NiP, Titan and Natus Vincere, and they will already have a chance to go against two of the three in Dallas later this month. ESEA could be very important for them, and it will give us a much better idea where they stand - whether they can fix their issues, or if they may continue struggling.

We've recently praised Jarosław "pasha" Jarząbkowski for being one of the best players so far in 2014, and deservedly so. Still, he dropped the ball in the quarter-finals in Jönköping, finishing with the worst K-D difference of his team in the series, which included a measly 5:21 showing, good for an atrocious 0.30 rating. Could he have made a difference alone? Hard to say, but don't discount the possibility.

Both Pogorzelski and Bieliński played well at DreamHack, and it was actually the older CS 1.6 trio who struggled to keep up. Usually they've been consistent enough that when the new players played well, Virtus also did well. Now that's being called into question, and luckily we only have to wait under two weeks to see how Kubski and company will reply.

TaZ bummed after another sub-par performance from Virtus.pro

Tournament formats need updating, again

Changing to the GSL-style group stage format I suggested in my article in mid-2012 was already a move towards the right direction, but DreamHack Summer highlighted one of the issues with the persisting tournament format used in today's Counter-Strike events, and it's about time we start addressing some of these issues instead of looking the other way.

Weaker teams such as Epsilon should not be able to luck into a top four finish by finishing second in their group, and getting the lucky one-in-three draw of facing a team such as Lemondogs, who just so happened to luck into a first place finish in their group as well, thanks to Flipsid3 Tactics doing the heavy lifting with their 16-14 de_dust2 upset victory versus Natus Vincere.

Teams should be re-seeded before the playoffs, and potentially even every single round, as NHL used to do in its Stanley Cup playoffs, to keep things extra interesting. Furthermore, for the most important events of the year - the majors - we should definitely move towards a best-of-three group stage format, even if it means some matches collapsing with one another in the schedule. Tournament quality should be priority number one.

I had a conversation with Na`Vi's Danilo "Zeus" Teslenko on Friday evening about the best-of-one group stages, and how much variance they add into the majors. This definitely calls for a longer in-depth article on the subject, and I'll try to get one out in time for the $250,000 ESL event to consider the format, if Valve allows it, but the point is clear - two best-of-ones should not determine a team's fate when a tournament only has the best of the best present.

This was a step in the right direction, but not enough

CS:GO is still growing, at a very good pace

DreamHack Winter gathered some 145,000 viewers for the grand final, a promising number at the first major event for CS:GO with a $250,000 prize purse. EMS One Katowice topped that with 245,000 - a neat increase. Now all the numbers are not yet in, and DreamHack Summer's $30,000 tournament won't break Katowice's record, but the official stream had a very impressive 125,000 concurrent viewers.

Once we get all the streams in other languages added up we're likely to surpass last Winter event's mark, which shows how much CS:GO has grown in that timeframe. With just over one tenth of the prize money, we topped the viewership. Our website also hit a new record during DreamHack, surpassing the previous one from Copenhagen Games by over 42%. We only had six of the world's twelve top teams present, and everyone still loved it.

Hopefully this will encourage Valve to fund more $250,000 majors, and more companies in general will decide to start sponsoring CS:GO events. Obviously there's a ton of people to advertise to, and at some point more large companies will take note, and shift some of their marketing dollars to Counter-Strike. Other games may still trump it, but we're headed in the right direction.

ESL have just announced the next $250,000 major to take place at GamesCom in the middle of August, and there's always a chance of DreamHack Winter once more being a major as well. Add in all the other tournaments coming up, such as G3, ESWC, and whatever else may be announced in the coming months, and things are looking great for Counter-Strike as a whole.

DreamHack Summer drew a massive crowd both online and in person

NiP are the best team now, and so far in 2014

In our April world rankings we said NiP claimed the number one spot in the world rankings almost by default, but now it's definitely set in stone. They have been the best team in the world so far in 2014, and considering the inconsistency among everyone else, by a fairly sizable margin now. It's incredible how NiP can continue performing to this level.

What Robin "Fifflaren" Johansson said in his Reflections interview with Duncan "Thorin" Shields, and Adam "friberg" Friberg confirmed during a post-match interview at DreamHack also makes sense. NiP tend to lose against a team once, then prepare for that team, and have them figured out for the next meeting. That's been a trend now with fnatic, Virtus.pro and Na`Vi.

The only problem going into the future now is that there are so many teams who are neck and neck with NiP that it seems eventually one of them will almost certainly be able to top Christopher "GeT_RiGhT" Alesund's team again, but that doesn't mean NiP can't stay consistent enough to always make the grand final, only to sometimes lose against a different team, thus keeping them number one.

Their team play is incredible, they obviously have great chemistry, and it just doesn't seem like anything can faze them. In Jönköping Alesund struggled to perform, but then his teammates, Patrik "f0rest" Lindberg in particular, stepped up to fill the void. Johansson had some big rounds, including the almost-crazy one-on-two AWP clutch in the inner bombsite versus Na`Vi, and everyone remembers Friberg's quad kill to seal the HellRaisers series.

NiP are a complete team and as long as they keep constantly making top two at events, it simply makes no sense to talk about roster changes. Currently it seems everyone on the team steps up when needed, and though Johansson's numbers remain questionable, clearly he's a cog in the massive NiP wheel that just never stops turning.

Richard "Xizt" Landström just made his sixth consecutive DreamHack Jönköping grand final, with five wins to show for them. That's an impressive record. The only thing evading NiP is a major event title, and they will get another chance in two month's time. For now they can be content having once again proven they are the world's best.

The world's best celebrating another championship

CZ75 is overpowered

Without looking at any numbers during the event, the eye test suggested CZ75 is way overpowered, and should probably be nerfed some. This has been the popular opinion for quite some time, but I'm not sure it has ever been as bad as it was at DreamHack Summer, where it seemed the second round after pistol round would be won roughly as often by the CZ75 buyers as the ones with rifles.

compLexity's Kory "Semphis" Friesen summed up the addition of CZ75 fairly well in his tweet, and it has never seemed more timely than now. Save rounds were a toss up in CS:GO to begin with, at least in comparison to previous Counter-Strike versions, but the CZ75 is such a powerful weapon, at such a low price point, that it's almost stupid not to buy it every time you're saving.

We saw a number of multi-kill rounds with it in big games, and without doing the necessary research by going through demos or VODs, I would guess CZ75s contributed with two or more kills to at least ten won save rounds during the event. That seems like too much, and its usage rate seemed to also be through the roof compared to other pistols; something Valve definitely aren't happy about as they try to promote equality among weapons. In fact, there were 273 CZ75 kills at DreamHack; 164 more than with a P250, for which the CZ75 is supposed to be an alternative.

Based on the response in a reddit post, with over 500 upvotes, and replies to my tweet on Twitter, it seems this should be a no brainer - usually there's lots of people who disagree, but this time that doesn't seem to be the case. Everyone who chimed in seems to be onboard with the nerfing. We know Valve wants as many guns as possible to be competitively viable, but if one pistol is much better than others, it will reduse the other pistols' impact.

There are other issues in the game as well, such as the defuse kits still being overpriced, and smokes potentially being slightly too one-sided. Also, the silenced M4A1 contributed over 87% more kills than the M4A4, despite Valve's efforts to keep them balanced. However, first priority should be fixing the CZ75, and we could go from there. Let's just hope the CS:GO developers don't become complacent.

We grew accustomed to seeing this at DreamHack

f0rest was the MVP of DreamHack Summer

For all the comments after Friberg's entry killing versus HellRaisers and Natus Vincere, it's obvious the true MVP of DreamHack Summer was Patrik "f0rest" Lindberg. He put on a clinic statistically, finishing with a 1.23 rating, a K-D difference of +54, 0.83 KPR and 38 assists in ten maps of play. Though he sometimes disappears in group stages, Lindberg shows up in the playoffs.

He was the driving force behind NiP in their quarter-final besting of Titan, finishing with a ridiculous 1.42 rating, with no one else on his team being above 1.00. In the semi-finals versus HellRaisers he was in the middle of the pack, and in the grand final just barely behind Alesund, who otherwise had an uncharacteristically weak showing this time around.

DreamHack Summer 2014 also marks the first LAN tournament, together with ESPORTSM 2013/2014 Finals, since ESWC 2013 where Lindberg finished with a rating of at least 1.20. If that means he may be en route to a form more like the one we saw last year, and which led to this performance, it would mean trouble for teams hoping to thwart NiP in the future.

My colleague Petar "Tgwri1s" Milovanovic will publish a "Top players" article for DreamHack Summer in the near future, so you will have to wait for his article to get more numbers backing Lindberg's case. Either way, he was clearly the most valuable player on the championship team over the course of DreamHack Summer.

f0rest was an ice cold killer in Jönköping

Titan simply don't have it anymore

I think it's time to face the music for Titan. They haven't done well on LAN since late February, and even that was at a four team tournament, and changing the world's third best player in 2013, Richard "shox" Papillon, for former member Kenny "kennyS" Schrub, doesn't seem to have been the answer. This team simply doesn't have that extra something that makes teams go.

It seemed obvious watching them play NiP, as they threw away round after round on de_dust2, in the old VeryGames style of pre-Papillon era in 2013. As soon as they got close to winning the series, they would commit terrible mental mistakes and come crashing down. Combine that with the thrashing HellRaisers gave them in the group stage, and things are not looking good.

For a team that so much tries to look like a real team that sticks together and works as a unit, it was also disheartening seeing Schrub stay back all alone in the tournament area after the NiP defeat, with the rest of Titan fleeing the scene quickly following the loss on de_dust2. It doesn't seem like recruiting Schrub was the answer, and frankly, I have no idea what could fix Titan at this point.

What Auguste "Semmler" Massonnat said he heard on a VaKarm interview also sounds terrible for this team. According to Massonnat, Titan have basically lessened the impact of Kévin "Ex6TenZ" Droolans in favor of playing a more skill heavy style since the return of Schrub, which then begs the question - what good is having Droolans on the team if he doesn't call the shots?

Schrub had the second highest rating of all players at DreamHack and he was clearly the team's star, as was expected of him. After him there was a huge drop off though, with Nathan "NBK" Schmitt second in his usual form. Adil "ScreaM" Benrlitom seems like a non-factor these days, Droolans has never been a strong fragger, and Edouard "SmithZz" Dubourdeaux has looked lost since giving up the AWPing roles to Schrub.

If they can't figure these problems out by the fall, despite spending an inordinate amount of time together in their gaming house, heads must roll. There's something terribly wrong in this team, and it doesn't seem like holding onto these four players is the answer. I don't think some extra practice will get them over the mental hump, but I'm not sure a player change will either.

kennyS can't believe they threw the final rounds of de_dust2 away

fnatic's ESPORTSM win was fool's gold

fnatic's trip to Jönköping, despite our pre-event article suggesting they may once again surprise at what seems to be their favorite event, wound up a huge disappointment. They may have been able to sell themselves on the NiP win in ESPORTSM making up for their atrocious showing in the main tournament, but that's a lie they should be able to see past if they wish to.

Markus "pronax" Wallsten's team lost the opener in group B against SK Gaming, and then were taken out by the same team on the same map a few hours later, unable to make the necessary adjustments. For a team who spoke so much about focusing on trying to make the right changes during games, they weren't able to come through even with a few hours in between the games.

First time around their terrorist side saw SK finish the map on a 10-0 defensive half, and in the second game fnatic scored a disappointing three rounds as terrorists in the first half. Those are unacceptable numbers for a team supposedly boasting a good leader, that is well prepared, and who bootcamped for a whole month leading up to DreamHack Summer.

Now SK were a one map wonder and clearly good on de_inferno, as proven by their map win over NiP on it in ESPORTSM semi-finals, but HellRaisers exposed their weaknesses on the map, running up a 14-1 lead en route to a convincing 16-8 win. The fact that fnatic weren't able to adjust one bit for the second game brings up real concerns over their ability to improve in the future, especially since it was something they already focused on prior to DreamHack.

What's more, their grand final win over NiP took place sometime around two and three in the morning. Friberg was asked about it on the official DreamHack stream, and he shrugged the loss off saying he thinks they mentally gave up after losing map one due to the match taking place so late. Can't blame them, they had bigger fish to fry on in the playoffs of DreamHack's main tournament, for which fnatic did not even qualify for.

fnatic went out against a domestic team, which always makes the results slightly questionable, but their supposed big win also came against a domestic team. It works both ways, and fnatic currently are not one of the absolute best teams in the world, despite their ability to upset NiP. They have a lot of work ahead of them, and I think skipping ESEA was definitely the wrong choice considering all the preparation they put for DreamHack, that seemingly now will go to waste.

DreamHack did not go as planned for Devilwalk's fnatic

Na`Vi are a legitimate top team

Who knew? Just about everyone made a huge deal, again, about Na`Vi's wins over NiP and Titan taking place at CyberSports ARENA in Kiev, with tons of ghosting accusations - based on zero evidence - and comments about the supposed home crowd advantage the CIS based teams enjoy when playing there. Now they've proven they're the real deal.

Na`Vi do not play de_nuke at all, as has been the case since the team was first founded in 2010, but they are good enough on all other four maps to be competitive against anyone in the world. They pack enough firepower to compete with everyone, and it's unquestionable that Danilo "Zeus" Teslenko is a very good in-game leader, who his players also like playing for.

Two events is too small of a sample size to call them a top three team in the world, but if they were to win ESEA finals later this month, that might change depending who they go through there. They are dangerous when they get rolling, and the fact multiple Na`Vi players told me Ladislav "GuardiaN" Kovács now speaks very good Russian is also a great sign.

There is also some untapped potential in the team with Ioann "Edward" Sukhariev still somewhat inconsistent, though it's been long enough that he might just end up being like that for good in CS:GO. Denis "seized" Kostin could potentially make the leap soon to becoming one of the team's main stars, and no one had questioned Kovács' AWPing for a long time.

The CIS based team is also one of the more strategically sound teams in the game, which promises good things in terms of their long term consistency. Unlike fellow CIS team HellRaisers, they rely on Teslenko's calls and teamwork, not individual skills. Future will tell what level Na`Vi will average out playing at, but if they can keep working as they have in the previous months, they could become a new semi-permanent top three team.

Natus Vincere are here to stay

Five random thoughts that did not fit in:

Delpan could be a good fit for SK Gaming

SK Gaming lack a sniper, and Fredrik "roque" Honak struggled to perform in Jönköping. Marcus "Delpan" Larsson played amazing, and he confirmed he wants to get back on a competitive top team. Did I mention he's played for SK three times in the past, one of those times being very successful, and he's both a former teammate of and good friends with SK in-game leader Faruk "pita" Pita? Keep an eye on this as a possible post-DreamHack change.

We need to add more maps into the map pool

It's getting stale at this point. Teams are outright afraid of playing more one-sided maps such as de_train and de_nuke, and as was the case already in Katowice, de_inferno is played in basically half the group stage games and every playoff series. Before Valve started dictating the terms of every tournament, de_cache and de_season were played. Hopefully de_tuscan gets released soon and Valve can include it, as well as de_cache, in future tournaments. DreamHack is already thinking about it, and it would make things more interesting.

shox didn't look like a superstar in his Epsilon debut

It can be hard to shine on a weak team when all the weight is on your shoulders, but the Richard "shox" Papillon we all grew to appreciate so much in Titan did not appear in Jönköping. I don't think Epsilon is a long term stop for him, and he will likely wind up in either LDLC or Titan once either blows one more event, or the latter finally abandons the doomed gaming house.

Where will the ex-LGB players end up?

Possibilities are fnatic and SK Gaming. The former probably would have made big changes if not for the fool's gold win over NiP in ESPORTSM, but that may have given their team some more life. Olof "olofm" Kajbjer, Isak "cype" Rydman and Simon "twist" Eliasson will probably slowly get integrated into these other teams, and I wouldn't be surprised if fnatic picked up a pair of their players. Then again, don't rule out a LGB comeback with Dennis "dennis" Edman all of a sudden ready to play once more, with them having been invited to the next $250,000 major in August.

SK Gaming seem like domestic one map wonders

SK had a very strong showing on de_inferno, winning three maps versus fnatic and NiP. The problem is they weren't able to do well on any other map, and even on de_inferno their excellent play was limited to domestic competition. HellRaisers made them look bad, but considering the team is still young, it was still a good showing for Pita's squad. Now they have to start doing things on more than one map.

Could Delpan bringing firepower to SK ease the pressure on eksem?

What did you take away from DreamHack Summer? Do you disagree with any of the lessons listed above? Leave a comment below and let us know what you think.

Follow HLTV.org's @lurppis_ on Twitter.

2014-06-19 18:21

nice

2014-06-19 18:22

n1 n2 n3 n4 n5

2014-06-19 18:24

lurppis gj, was interesting to read

2014-06-19 18:26

Good read

2014-06-19 18:27

delpan come to SK !

2014-06-19 18:31

world rankings are always going to be arbitrary while tournaments use single elimination formats. bo3 single elimination playoffs are not the answer. both titan and hellraisers gave better showings vs. nip than navi did we will continue seeing the same maps over and over and over again as long as teams have too much veto power in a small map pool. i would love to see 8-9 maps: d2, inferno, nuke, train, mirage, cache, season, tuscan and? it's time for something new, not just adding maps like season/mill/tuscan that have been in the scene for years If tournaments stick to the current 5-7 map pools then we need to change the veto system, allow less vetoes and add in a coin flip or something to randomly decide. A statement like "team A never plays nuke" does not belong in the conversation of a "pro" team I'm not sure how the navi ghosting discussion has 0 evidence... team comms were available on twitch and you could easily hear the commentators through the players mic. this is not a shot or accusation towards the team, but towards the event itself

2014-06-19 18:37

22 replies

so ask some US teacher that speaks russian to translate it for you and he will make u sure there were 0 infos given by them :) i will give back all my money from SLTV if im lying.(with my level of russian)

2014-06-19 18:49

13 replies

Just ignore these guys, you guys are all fucking well-established top-players from 1.6 and source, of course you can perform on lan without ghosting!

2014-06-19 19:10

2014-06-19 19:37

the only people who think that there were ghosting are people who are mad that you beat their favourite team so dont worry about it

2014-06-19 20:26

but I don't want your money

2014-06-19 20:52

the fact that you are telling me to "get a translator" means you acknowledge my point that both teams could easily hear the casters again, like i said though, not a shot at the team, but towards the event itself. hard to give a lot of respect to an event when you can clearly ON BOTH TEAMS comms hear the casters. other lans have had live casting in the same room with the ability to hear teams comms and they are never as loud or as bad as that event. something needs to change as we should never even think about needing a conversation like this.

2014-06-19 21:06

8 replies

The fact that Guardian savs you need a translator means that you just probobly know zero russian.Logic, simple logic.

2014-06-19 21:52

They give zero info. What you want from casters?

2014-06-19 21:57

6 replies

if they give zero info then they aren't doing their job properly for the crowd in the first place, so why is the event organized the way it is? I seriously doubt any of the players enjoy the casters being so loud around them, and I would assume the audience would prefer better casting.

2014-06-19 22:46

5 replies

your assumptions have nothing to do with audience's preferences

2014-06-19 23:16

You assume that mics, have the same kind of "sound protection" as the headphones and thats where your arguments completely falls apart. I mean, mics pick up more sounds, and might transmit to the other players, its HIGHLY unlikely that anything useful was ever picked up by anyone. And, from what my friend and other russian citizens have said, the casters were casting : Trades, Macro(after the round), Past Events and just naming who killed who. Nothing "current and/or vital information" was ever called out.

2014-06-20 04:17

3 replies

i've never once claimed anything vital or current was called out, practice some reading comprehension. these are my points: the players have to deal with extra loud casters around them and disturbing their comms. the casters have to be self conscious about what they say the entire time. the audience is receiving sub-par commentary. who is winning here?

2014-06-20 16:46

2 replies

no one. now how does that discredit navi's, hr's or any other cis team's results in kiev?

2014-06-20 23:38

1 reply

I havnt discredited any of the teams, they all play under the same conditions that we agree "no one is winning" with. I have and will discredit the event no matter who wins it though. it's 2014 and this was most recently the 9th? iteration of the event. the standard of other events is not being met and instead of talking about ideas on how to fix the issue, whether or not someone cheated is a big and serious enough headline for you to mention in your article a month later. Teams and players, like guardian responding above, should be crying for acoustic screens around them instead of defending against ghosting accusations.

2014-06-20 23:52

+1 to much veto power in 5 maps, we always see 3 main maps played in group stages while on bo3 we see train and nuke as a 3, not wanted to play map. also we need new fresh maps asap and more randomness in map selection. then teams would practice all maps not just 3 main maps everyone plays.

2014-06-19 18:50

I don't think teams should need to practice all maps, as it's interesting with teams like Na'vi who have tactically ruled out one map. However, there should be more balanced maps to choose from, which would naturally mean that there's more variety in maps played.

2014-06-19 23:24

They dont even have all the old maps in like mill/tuscan and you want something new? First add those + cache, then they can think about something new imo.

2014-06-19 18:55

cache and season are being used in current 7 map pools. mill isn't played by anyone and is essentially the same map as tuscan which will be immediately used by CEVO if/when it ever is released. with the way people want veto's it requires an odd number of maps, so either a 7 or 9 map pool. with the 8 i listed there would be no need for mill, so we would need 1 more

2014-06-19 21:09

still mad cuz u lose skins ?... 99%[excluding trolls] of people who understand russian said navi wernt ghosting and btw even if they did i doubt they would reach final ... BUT guess what they didnt ghost and came 2nd..

2014-06-19 19:20

seven maps is already bordering on too much. it's impossible for a team, even if professional, to be very good on that many maps. if we allow them to always remove two, they'll have to practice five. that's doable. we could add de_season, de_cache (and de_tuscan when it comes out, replacing a map that's hardly played like de_train) but we can't go to more than seven maps. trust me, you'd rather watch seven maps teams are good on, than nine they are average on. as for the na`vi thing, please put it to rest. sltv commentators never give up positional information, this has been talked to death. seriously.

2014-06-20 12:45

these are my points about sltv since im being lumped in with people crying about ghosting: the players have to deal with extra loud casters around them and disturbing their comms that blast through their mics. the casters have to be self conscious about what they say the entire time. the audience is receiving sub-par commentary. who is winning here? other events are able to handle live commentary without causing such a discussion, if this article is about learning why does such a discussion come up after every event there? as far as the maps go it's really more about the veto system that is destroying the map pool. if more maps means teams are "average" on maps they play less like on train... well train has produced some of the most exciting matches over the last few months so maybe that's a good thing

2014-06-20 17:02

it comes up because the people who bring it up are stupid fanboys with nothing else to say but a need to produce noise. the matches we've seen on train are between teams who practice it, hence they've been fine. look up nip vs na'vi deciding map from sltv finals last july; that's what happens when teams are forced to play maps they don't practice.

2014-06-20 19:01

Good read!

2014-06-19 18:35

why is everyone hating so much on roque? on the livecams you coudl clearly see he was nervous as fuck, and i can imagine this was his first rather "big" lan?

9 replies

I agree. Give him some time, he was obviously nervous as you said, which made his kills look pretty shaky from time to time. It's mostly because he's so unknown outside of Sweden, that people want to see -roque + Delpan or whatever.

2014-06-19 20:01

Well that's the point, isn't it? You got two months before another major, do you want a lan proven player or someone who might still get nervous? I'm not saying replacing him with Delpan would be the right move. I'm just saying I can understand why that would be logical.

2014-06-19 20:08

its straight up hltv logic lol so far we've seen roque play 3 or 4 games on lan and now he needs to be replaced? lol

2014-06-19 20:13

I agree he deserves another couple of chances to prove himself, but I can understand not wanting to risk your tournament life in a 250k tournament just to give him that chance. Especially when there's another player who is lan proven and who is ready to take his place.

2014-06-19 20:22

4 replies

rather have a guy you played with for long enough now then a guy whos pretty inconsistent in csgo and maybe a personality for himself :d

2014-06-19 20:24

delpan was never inconsistent..i dunno where people heard that

2014-06-20 05:11

hltv.org/?pageid=247&playerid=438&eventi.. hltv.org/?pageid=247&playerid=438&eventi.. he was/is inconsistent as hell

2014-06-20 11:31

>in csgo i wasnt talking about his past career in 1.6 hes pretty inconsistent in csgo. either dropping 40 or 4 frags per game regardless of the enemy.

2014-06-20 13:11

How is he online? Haven't seen him much

2014-06-20 16:03

good read

2014-06-19 18:36

Ever since the release of the CZ I regarded it as way to powerful. Whatever you do in 90% of the situations you either kill someone and die or you shoot him down to 10hp and then die, still giving your team a huge advantage in the further evolving eco round. Apart from that valve made a huge amount of changes to the weapon balancing in order to keep it balanced but since the release of the CZ they haven't touched it at all, which concludes they HAVE to change it. It is not possible to bring in a completely new game element and consider it balanced directly from the start. You need to release it in a beta and test it for a long enough period to balance it properly, but it seems valve never thought about that.

2014-06-19 18:39

Delpan olofm dennis twist SKYTTEN - pls

2014-06-19 18:40

-SKYTTEN + eksem and thats a really strong team.

2014-06-19 23:21

this was, hands down, one of the best article that ever came up on hltv.org

very enjoyable to read, props to lurppis!

2014-06-19 20:03

indeed

2014-06-19 22:56

they should give cz 2 extra clips and make it cost 1000. what would you rather have? cz or p250+armor. would also give you something viable for anti-ecos since smg's are barely used, you would have a choice for something besides famas/galil

2014-06-19 18:42

I dont think any1 would use it if it costs 1000.

2014-06-19 18:44

deagle costs 800 and people buy it all the time on "eco" rounds

2014-06-19 18:47

Not realy.....

2014-06-19 19:02

maybe in murica...

2014-06-19 21:55

People who are confident in their deagle skills buy the deagle, or the occasional newb with the #ibaylieve. CZ should have atleast the cost of a fiveseven or 450, the cost should be more, but not a 1000, thats just overkill.

2014-06-20 04:20

it's overkill the way it is now. making it cost 450 or 500 wouldnt change anything. p250+armor was already a completely viable strat in the game, strong enough to be a game changer. now teams don't even need coordinated p250+armor buys, they can just buy a cz every single eco and are almost guaranteed a win or massive economic damage

2014-06-20 05:07

whats a clip? doesn't that go in your hair?

2014-06-19 20:38

No1 would ever buy a CZ for 1k, sorry bud. Like it wouldn't be much of an eco anymore. And no, deag's aren't being bought that much, it happens, but not as much as you're saying. Idk if you're Silver 3 where people buys whatever, can't answer to that.

2014-06-20 16:27

so what would your idea to fix the issue be then? p250/5-7/deagle are already used for eco rounds and are all perfectly fine at getting kills. as it stands now in a 1v1 situation a cz+armor is more powerful than smg no armor or shotgun no armor at any distance, and just as powerful as colt+armor/ak+armor at close range. that is a broken mechanic of the game. the current nerf of 24 total bullets only makes the CZ weaker in pistol rounds

2014-06-20 16:40

<3 f0rest

2014-06-19 18:43

thanks for sharing, lurppis; great as always

Does someone know where is walle (best awp ever imo)? What is he doing now?

He retired from professional gaming few years ago.

2014-06-19 18:51

Someone said hes selling cloths at JC store :DD

2014-06-19 19:44

"CS:GO is still growing, at a very good pace" lol

2014-06-19 18:45

2014-06-19 18:58

yes it is .. last year didnt have much Online and Lan tournaments as this year is having :) And 2 250k Tournaments so far this year is quite good for the CS:GO Teams :)

steamcharts.com/app/730 Look at the first column... it's not an opinion...

2014-06-20 12:23

Say what you want. It should be much more bigger. Look at Dota 2 , Starcraft or even Starcraft , CS prizepool comparing to them is a joke.

2014-06-20 13:05

Nobody ever said it is as big as Starcraft or Dota2. It is growing and that is good. You can always want a bigger prize purse, even if you play tetris ;)

2014-06-21 09:45

NiP Na'vi VP Dignitas HR LDLC TITAN Lurppis confirmed.

2014-06-19 18:46

"Teams should be re-seeded before the playoffs, and potentially even every single round, as NHL used to do in its Stanley Cup playoffs, to keep things extra interesting. " For me this is SO stupid for cs:go ... So if a team win against a better seeded team, she doesn't deserve to "win" the better seed ? So what do you want ? Same playoff everytime ? :O

I kind of agree with this. Reseed once before the playoffs is potentially a good idea, but to reseed after every round makes it way too hard for an underdog team. I always liked the fact that an underdog team topping a higher seeded team early in the brackets gets rewarded by essentially taking over that seed in the bracket.

2014-06-19 20:12

no, one win versus a higher seed shouldn't be more important than months of success. i realize most wouldn't ever agree with re-seeding every round, but re-seeding should 100% take place before playoffs begin.

2014-06-20 13:06

What do you mean by re-seeding? Randomly draw every round of the bracket? I dont understand on what should be re-seeding based. I always felt that it is good that you randomly draw the teams to groups (maybe with some seeding, so there won't be top3 teams in one group). Then you sort the groups A, B, C... etc. And then, in the play-offs, first from A plays with second from B, Second from A plays with first from B and so on. I think this is good, because it promotes getting first in the group. I know there might be some "glitches" when a semi-pro team wins a bo1 with a pro team, so they come first in the group, but... well if you lose, you lose - no matter how good you were the last months ;) I mean, look at Na'Vi - they lost to Flipsid3 in the groups, so they would have a (theoretically) harder time in the playoff bracket. They stepped they game up, so they would still go far in the tournament. imo ;)

2014-06-21 09:52

seeding is the process of ordering teams based on their merits. there is nothing random about seeding, it promotes consistency and results over the long term, which is why it should be done in the majors. the system you suggest where playoff pairs are pre-determined is as broken as it can get, as it promotes losing on purpose to avoid potentially tougher match-ups. one best-of-one loss should not be more important than months of stellar play.

2014-06-21 09:56

People seem to forget that teams sometimes lose in brackets on purpose to avoid harder playoff draws. Which is stupid, honestly. If you do re-seeding it encourages teams to play for broke in the brackets, instead of trying to stack their chances.

2014-06-20 20:49

You forgot to add "We get a break from '-fifflaren' threads until the next major LAN event"

2014-06-19 18:48

gj lurppis, good read

Good read -Delpan comeback most overrated player in counter strike atm.

I think JW will always be #1 on that list, with delpan hanging on at #4th maybe 5th.

2014-06-20 04:23

Sorry... JW is definitely below ScreaM on that list. I have seen JW win matches, however rare that may be. ScreaM, for sure gets a highlight round quite frequently, but i've never seen him win a game by himself.

2014-06-20 12:20

Well, ScreaM is at least surrounded by somewhat skilled teammates. Compared to JW who's teammates are mostly terrible. Except Schneider maybe. With that said I ment that ScreaM doesn't get the oppurtunity to carry a game alone as often as JW.

2014-06-20 16:32

+ 1 on the maps + 1 on the CZ + 1 on the smokes being OP + 1 on the bo3 groups

Great read and I definitely want to see Delpan back in a top team. He's the only guy that I think could out-AWP kennyS with his reflexes aggressively whereas GuardiaN already does it defensively and sometimes even aggressively. No offense kennyS is strong but he doesn't seem to be that big vs GuardiaN and possibly even Delpan if he gets on a good team? I do hope ESEA finals will be Na`Vi vs NiP once again to say who has the advantage right now, NiP might have figured them out after SLTV but ESEA will show us a lot aswell and if Na`Vi really manages to pull off the win at ESEA I consider them top3 at ESL One Cologone FOR SURE

Great article, expect nothing less from lurppis!

Very nice article lurppis!

2014-06-19 18:52

That was interesting.

2014-06-19 18:53

Very interesting, fantastic job Lurppis!

2014-06-19 18:59

Amazing stuff. Hoping for an ex-LGB reform and then get into a good org who can keep a hold of them :) Great to see positive numbers for CSGO viewership/HLTV hits. Also interesting point around Titan, but I feel they need some magic and/or to go back to the drawing board and figure out CSGO tbh.

Titan should have poached apeX, he's one of the best french players when on form and could fill the void left by shox better than kennyS (who just disrupts the roles of other players). kenny is a big impact player but doesn't seem to be a team player. Titan are a very "teamy" team and shox just seemed to gel better and he freed up NBK/Scream and let smithzZ awp, which he's really good at. in fact maybe boot scream (past his prime?) or smithzz for apeX. that might work.

2014-06-19 19:00

7 replies

"kenny is a big impact player but doesn't seem to be a team player" Are you only saying this because he had an awesome performance, but Titan, as a team, did not? Because I watched Titan's games and to say he isn't a team player is out right wrong.

2014-06-19 20:05

Nope. Saying it because i've watched him for years in a number of teams and that is my conclusion. Imo smithzz can almost match his awping and is a smarter player elsewhere. Id bring in apex because he's just a great fraggetr and can swing games in his teams favour. Maybe smithzz (calling), nbk (support valls mid round), apex (fragger/entry), kenny (awp) and shox (being a hero). That'd do me.

2014-06-19 20:28

If you don't think he's a team player, then the blame is on whoever is igl in Titan right now. It's not like kenny is ignoring calls and doing whatever he wants. And there is no way smithzz can almost match kenny's awping. With regards to apex, I think I remember reading last year that he and titan don't get along all too well, I may be wrong or things may have changed since then, but he is surrounded by more talent in LDLC atm. So there would be no reason to leave.

2014-06-19 20:37

smithzz isn't even half the awper kennys is

he is. Just not as much aggressive but I presume I was efficient as a defensive CT awper and he died less often (so less expensive mate) imo they should rotate the awp, cause kenny can play with the ak. When u need an aggressive pick / push => KennyS When u need to hold on something => SmithZz

2014-06-20 16:18

I disagree.

2014-06-20 18:42

I don't think apex will leave LDLC, they are on the rise right now.

2014-06-19 20:58

- ScreaM + shox - Smithzz + apeX

2014-06-19 19:07

idk I missed the whole event. :(

2014-06-19 19:13

Plz dont nerf CZ valve!! Im too good with it!!

I will strongly disagree on bo3 group staging and re-seeding teams round-after-round in playoffs. Why shouldnt teams like Flipside and LmD "luck into" the playoffs? Even though Flipside couldnt manage to have done it. Is it Lemondogs fault that Navi literally sucked in the game vs. Flipside? It happens throughout all the other sport games (hockey, football, basketball etc.) The fact that potentially "weaker teams" like Epsilon have been "lucking into" the top4 (or 3-2-1, whatever) just makes it a legit damn sport game. I dont want to see any given semifinal with only Nip-Vp-Dignitas-HR\Titan. Any team can struggle. It's only natural

2014-06-19 19:14

I think it would be a better idea to keep groups as they are, but change the brackets to double elimination.

2014-06-19 20:09

maybe it's just me, but i'd rather watch good teams play in semi-finals, instead of epsilon getting trashed.

2014-06-20 13:07

it is sure to lead to the stagnation soon or later and the skill gap will prevail

2014-06-20 14:49

moreover, to bring this seeding and reseeding pattern to life, we need a global and reliable ranking system just like ATP has in tennis

2014-06-20 14:54

-ex6tenz +shoxie i think it will happen

2014-06-19 19:16

Only because Ex6TenZ will retire

2014-06-19 19:39

yes

2014-06-19 19:43

might as well start in playoffs instead of groups if you're going to reseed every round.. what's the point of a group then? current group stage format ends with a lot of teams going 1-1 against each other and 1 of them being knocked out

olofmeister :)

I learned a valuable lesson in friendship and that cheese is #1.

2014-06-19 19:23

who da k1ng? f0rest da k1ng <3

2014-06-19 19:30

Could Delpan bringing firepower to SK ease the pressure on eksem? wrong pic

2014-06-19 19:31

No, it's eksem on the pic.

2014-06-19 19:34

sorry my bad

2014-06-19 19:45

2014-06-19 19:33

"CS:GO is still growing, at a very good pace" thx to all cheaters for buying all them new accs. fuck you valve

2014-06-19 19:41

enjoyed reading , and agree on most of the points especially the CZ ,smokes and maps

And Fiffy once again showed the haters how to play CS. Fiffy >> haters

Defuse Kit should be at 300$ smokes are too good for cts. they should reduce the smoke effect that you need 2 smokes to effectively smoke because its raising teamplay skill requirements. CZ75 should not make that damage on low range or they should reduce firing rate because you can play IT atm like a Shotgun on close distance. Also maps are boring, they should bring in all new maps only dust2 tuscan and a balanced nuke stay. Maybe add overpass, cbble season and some community maps. The rest of the maps are shit to play and make no fun

2014-06-19 19:47

i agree on nothing. things valve should fix is the smokebug, when it occurs to be very thin at the edge of the smoke when you see through it clearly from 1meter distance and when you walk into that edge, it all of a sudden gets thick as fuck. and then your dead. also they should fix that you dont get stuck in place while running/walking when greanades hits you, this is really really annoying. they should just bounce off you. and they should add tuscan, season and contra to the map pool. these are really good maps. Who the fuck plays seaside?

2014-06-19 19:55

yeah, seaside! lol, best map ever Kappa. give me an hour and i will figure out how to kill the bomb planter on b site while sitting in the green house on a lol. also give me a team with 2 decent snipers on t side and ill guarantee that nobody will dare to cross middle to cover b ever again! but its fun on matchmaking.

2014-06-19 20:50

Defuse kit was perfect at 200, I think.

2014-06-20 12:14

WE LEARN WHAT WE NEED TO REFUSE OUT FROM LURPPIS SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLZ this is so fuckin terrible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What are you talking about?

2014-06-19 20:15

TEAM r playing just 2 maps and left from events ! how is it ? need return everyone vs everyone in group stage !

2014-06-19 21:38

I think the format is fine, we just need to make the games bo3.

titan, vp and fnatic need changes FAST!

2014-06-19 20:02

1st SLTV StarSeries VIII Finals $7,500 1st EMS One Katowice 2014 $100,000 2nd Copenhagen Games 2014 6,000€ 4th SLTV StarSeries IX Finals $4,000 5-8th DreamHack Summer 2014 $2,000 Na`Vi add maybe FACEIT Spring CUp 1st place?

wasn't a LAN to be fair, but I do think it is relevant.

2014-06-19 20:10

Was it LAN?

good article, but im surprised you didnt also talk about hellraisers, they performed a lot better than they have before and were inarguably the second best team at the event, I think they deserve some credit

2014-06-19 20:07

i hope to write about hr in more detail soon

2014-06-20 13:08

Lurppis is there any chance you'll have the opportunity to talk about your ideas on the tournament format to the ESL crew? It'd be great if we could have a good group-stage format for once.

i can surely talk to them, but that doesn't mean they would listen. valve also sets some limitations for the majors, but let's see what happens.

2014-06-20 13:09

Valve sets limitations? What kind? And why would they do that? You mean limitations more like standards, or rather restrictions? I can understand if it's the former but not really the latter.

2014-06-20 14:42

a standard can be a restriction at the same time. the odd system dreamhack winter used where groups a+b faced each other in quarter-finals before c+d were even played was only because valve wanted it that way, for example.

2014-06-20 14:45

That's weird. I know standards can be restrictions, but I was more talking about restrictions not serving the event's best interest and rather Valve's best interest. Anyway, let's hope they don't interfere too much. Thanks for answering.

2014-06-20 15:18

before this tournament i wanted olofm to replace fifflaren. Now i'm not so sure anymore.

2014-06-19 20:27

Hey lurppis. These GSL type group format is on my mind sinc they showed up, i still cant understand why this format is better than standart format when all group tems play versus all other teams like in every sports game. Draws and all the small round differences could make group stages more interesting and competitive for everyone. With all this bullshit i just whant to ask, why GSL style group stage is better and why?

2014-06-19 20:29

There are a few reasons, but IMO the most important reason is deciding who goes through by round differences in the event of a three-way tie does not work in CS. It's not fair to equate all round differences as equal because maps aren't equal. A potentially better team could lose more rounds, simply because they started T-side on nuke/train. GSL ensures only map wins matter, eliminating the disparity between T-sided/CT-sided maps.

2014-06-19 20:42

Thx, this clears everything.

2014-06-19 20:51

read the part about group stage at hltv.org/news/8509-improving-tournament-..

Another stellar article. Some points: -Another world ranking after ESEA would still be difficult because dignitas not participating in the last two lans makes it hard to place them in relation to the other top five teams. ESEA will at least hopefully clear up who ranks higher between Navi and VP, and whether NA teams are potential contenders against EU teams. -HR's performance. How significant is their 3rd-4th placing, after not seeing them at lan since EMS? -Fifflaren's performance. Without Tgwri1s's stats, an eye test would suggest this might just be his best lan to date, statistically. For sure, there is no way in hell he was this low: static.hltv.org/images/galleries/1693-fu.. IMO, he factored in big time for GTR's lack of star play.

2014-06-19 20:33

Ye, fifflaren played great. But GeT_RiGhT stepped up big time in final even though he had fever through whole Dreamhack :)

2014-06-19 23:38

updating the world rankings still won't be easy, but it will be easier, and make more sense. i hope to write about hellraisers in the coming weeks, but to me they've always been a team capable of beating titan or nip. nothing has changed. as for fifflaren, both tournament at dreamhack were statistically below average for him (stats page: hltv.org/?pageid=247&playerid=7147&event..), his best events took place before spring 2013.

2014-06-20 12:28

I don't always agree with you lurppis, but you write these damn well! Thanks and keep them coming in the future :)

2014-06-19 20:36

roque feelin some typ of way right now

im pretty sure the fire rate of the cz needs to be lowered slightly and the accuracy as well. an easy fix for the m4a1s would be a higher price. and im pretty sure that 100$ more, so 3k as opposed to 3,1k for the unsilenced one, would alreaddy do the trick^^

nice read, couldnt agree more with the tournament format!

I like the cz how it is for me as a mainly spectator of the game the CZ adds thrill to the game and can cause sudden changes in anti-eco rounds. I love that

2014-06-19 20:54

Well written article lurppis, agree on most parts. I don't know if anyone pointed it out in the comments, not going to read 110+ comments at my current state(tired). BUT I don't really think SK should add Delpan because he seems good with AWP, I must say that Maikelele really improved over the past few months with AWP and look really strong with it, if not stronger than Delpan. If anything I would suggest they need another rifler if they really have to make a change. Not that I think they should replace roque. I think forcing Maikelele to switch back to rifles would be a set back for the team, atleast if Delpan replaces him even though he might be a strong AWPer.

2014-06-19 20:56

"I had a conversation with Na`Vi's Danilo "Zeus" Teslenko on Friday" I didn't know that Zeus can speak English

Or maybe lurrpis can speak Russian :P

2014-06-20 12:47

I will touche' you for him XD

2014-06-20 18:45

:DDDDDDD

2014-06-19 21:28

Good Read , also i am astounded that some retards are actually saying NIP is not consistent

2014-06-19 21:30

Make CZ-75 cost 600$ and M4A1-S 3100. I think that would balance things out as it's only the stats that matter for the M4's and you cannot go CZ armour and helmet after first round loss. Also remove the stupid smoke thing were it still fucks your screen even if you are out of the smoke. That just made CT so fucking easy. Otherwise the game is very balanced in my opinion. Thoughts?

2014-06-19 21:33

The thing is that hltv seems to be too much used of useless eco round from 1.6 Imean already on source we were happy that eco round could be won with skill and strats if you go eco deagle . whereas on 1.6 no matter eco deag or whatever it was just a throw round (eco could only be made if there is a big fail from other side ) . Wherease on csgo eco round make the game more tense & exciting . 1.6 eco round < css <CSGO . I prefer that way than just throw round .

2014-06-19 22:23

Good point actually.. you are right. Why should we assume that eco rounds need to be so onesided, like in 1.6. Lurppis thinks that way because he is from 1.6. I actually agree that if the eco rounds can be more easily won, that it makes the game more interesting for the viewers.

2014-06-19 23:29

I think the point is that the CZ makes it too likely, which reduces the impact of the economic system overall. Even before the CZ the likelihood of winning an eco in CSGO was much higher than it was in 1.6 – Kevlar/helmet P250 buy is much better than kevlar/deagle buy in 1.6. And the P250 is so cheap that you can almost always buy it even if you cant afford kevlar to go with it. But with the CZ it seems that it is so likely to win a CZ-armor buy – maybe like 1/3 times? – that that completely dominates the economy. Which in turn means that the game becomes more about luck rather than winning by controlling the economy. I think it's good that you can win more ecos and that 1.6 ecos were too weak, but the CZ has just made it too easy.

2014-06-20 01:52

No, the more about luck argument is so wrong. By this logic, if there were no pistol rounds and every round players had starting money 16k, cs would become all about luck. Because every round is 50-50 by your logic and noobs can win vs nip, no skill because no economical aspect of the game left. lol ? Do you now understand the flaw in this? By making eco round more easily won, only thing that changes is that the pistol round dosen't have as a big of an influence to the overall rounds you have to get in order to win. In 1.6, pistol rounds were almost always guaranteed 3 rounds. Do you think that's better for viewers ? More interesting?

2014-06-20 09:35

No, you don't quite understand what I was getting at. My assumption is that the CZ is so strong that it allows you to win an eco a certain percentage of the time between equally skilled teams – 1/3, 1/4, whatever. Eco-wins are a HUGE deal financially, it cannot be overstated how big that is. So by introducing the CZ, you're increasing the variance between equally-skilled teams. If you happen to win 1-2 ecos in a game, that almost means that you're winning if you're playing as well as the opponents in other games. But they also have the same 1/3 chance since they're equally skilled, it just so happened that your team was the won who did win a couple ecos. As I said I DO think it's good that people have to be more careful in ecos than in 1.6, and that more of them are being won. But it's been too many since the CZ, which means that the economic factor – one of the things that makes CS so interesting – becomes smaller.

2014-06-20 19:43

a 300$ PISTOL shouldnt do so much damage,learn to read his arguments before jumping into conclusions lol

2014-06-20 05:14

He does point out that in dhs it seemed like roughly half of the rounds after pistol round were won by the CZs and he obviously meant it as a bad thing.

2014-06-20 09:26

what's the point of having a money system in the game if you can purchase a gun for one tenth of a rifle's price and win rounds with it? Eyeshield actually couldn't be more wrong; second rounds were won VERY often in CS 1.6, but it was with coordinated deagle armor/ak drop strategies, not everyone playing their own spot across the map. current imbalance in weaponry promotes lazy play and doesn't motivate teams to try different things on "save" rounds (and btw, buying on a save round =! a save round). winning second rounds should also be hard to the point where it makes teams change their styles - some teams (e.g. Na`Vi, ESC, M5) were super good in second round buys in 1.6, while others (e.g. SK, fnatic) more often went for one full save. CZ75 is much, much better than other pistols. and that's why it should be nerfed, not because "teams win too many ecos".

2014-06-20 12:33

To be honest, im now confused and cant really understand your main argument here: As you said, CZ75 is much better than other pistols. If your argument is that pistols should be equal/balanced, then why you think it has to be nerfed, why not power the other pistols, to make all even again between pistols? So obviously you have a reason for this and it seems that it isn't the possibility of teams winning too much "save" rounds. If your main problem is money system, then this can be an endless debate, how much should any given weapon in cs cost. There has never been strict balance between the prices and the weapons used in cs. If there is an AK and a machine gun lying on the ground, then no pro player would ever pick up the machine gun, because it's better because it costs more? The connection between weapon prices and the effectiveness has never been the case in cs, so why make it now? The money system would have no point left when players start buying CZs on gun rounds. Untill then, it's just a standard imbalance in weapons/prices that cs has had since the start. In my opinion, it's more interesting when 2. and 3. rounds are more easily won by the side that lost the pistol round. It makes the game more interesting for viewers.

2014-06-20 14:07

teams were already winning a ton of save rounds before the CZ75 was added, so that's not a good argument at all. simply nerf it a little, and we're good to go. the second and third rounds were already interesting (and won much more than in 1.6, where they were already very competitive towards the end) in cs:go. all making cz75 overpowered does, is make teams lazier. they no longer have to get creative to try to win "save" rounds; they can just all play their own spots and win. it's much more fun when they have to work for it.

Good Job lurppis! :)

2014-06-19 22:28

much butthurt and arrogance in this thread/article

2014-06-19 22:30

I disagree on the CZ, it may be the best thing to happen to pistol rounds. Its kind of stupid to assume you won pistol round and the next 2 are 99% yours. Yet again shows you how much lurpis doesn't want to move on and is stuck in his beloved 1.6 era... dead era. The CZ atleast gives the pistol winners a reason to continue to stay smart and not slack and consider the next 2 rounds more seriously. Lurpis is dead wrong on this, and all the pros that whine about it, its your fault for not playing accordingly to not get ECO'd. My advice, STFU and counter.

2014-06-19 22:39

11 replies

i agree generally, especially on that 1.6 stuff. almost all hltv and csgo community is like that. but i still think that it could be nerfed a little bit. a little bit slower fire rate or accuracy would definitely be good. just a little bit.

2014-06-19 23:42

you are just one of those newbies that run and shoot and abuse the overpowered stuff that theres around(like probably the OP bullup update they made) its obviously Overpowered,you shouldnt EQUAL guns if you LOST the pistol round,even more a 300$ gun with no recoil whatsover and with incredible armor penetration and firerate

2014-06-20 05:15

Surely you're not suggesting CZ is an equal gun to AK/M4? Losing pistol round is still a massive disadvantage... I, for one, don't think that CZ needs to be nerfed. I do agree that the cost should be raised to 500-600 though. PS : Hated the AUG update.

2014-06-20 12:08

I agree with you as well and I disagree with Lurppis. Pistol win should not guarantee 2 extra rounds by default. I think it keeps viewers (and many players) interested because there is a legitimate chance of the saving team winning the 2nd round. On maps like nuke, train (possibly even mirage), this could mean the difference between a 16-2 game and a 16-14 game. Example : 13-2 CT half, 14-2 after pistol, the losing team (now CT) wouldn't even get a chance to make a comeback even though the map has favorable conditions for it. Edit : And i'm a 1.6 guy... It's not about being stuck to the era, it's just the evolution of the metagame... we had decos in 1.6, but the metagame was such that most teams did not buy in the 2nd round. Even though 1.6 deagle gives nearly as much chance for an eco-win as the GO cz does. For example, in 1.6 at one point, some teams were really big on buying galils in 2nd round after losing T pistol (i.e. 2 members drop galil to 2 teammates and get a deagle in return. Galil users buy helmet, 5th guy gets all the nades+kevlar)

2014-06-20 12:05

hardly anyone saved twice after losing terrorist pistol round in 1.6, and most teams actually bought second round. this whole "automatic two save rounds" is some bullshit from 2003 that people somehow still keep spitting out a decade later without any basis for it.

2014-06-20 13:12

I pretty much said the same thing as well (even gave the 2nd round galil drop example). Not sure if you are reasserting my point or countering it. :S 2 round save was only standard for CT side, with surprise 3rd round weak buys from time to time.

2014-06-20 13:25

no, you didn't. you said in 1.6 you had no chance to comeback if you lost the pistol, whereas i just proved that was not the case. it's just how you remember it, but it's wrong. second round buys were often won in 1.6. plus, everyone seems to think if CZ75 was nerfed no one would win second round buys anymore. did everyone forget about the 18 months before CZ75 was added that saw JUST AS MANY second round wins happen? only, they weren't with a clearly OP pistol

2014-06-20 13:30

kinda like your attachment for 1.old and hatred for csgo..

2014-06-29 21:48

your reply shows you have zero knowledge of the "1.6 era", as you call it. teams constantly won second round buys in CS 1.6, and some teams (e.g. ESC, M5, Na`Vi) were so good at those it was a 50-50 proposition for them. the problem in CS:GO is that you should have to be good with the weaker weapons and specifically prepare for those rounds to be so successful with them; it shouldn't be a given for every round. plus, CZ75 is far too good in comparison to other pistols.

2014-06-20 12:34

I don't think the problem is CZ75 being too good. The problem is that it costs too less and the (economy) penalty for buying it every save round is next-to-none. In other words, it just needs to cost a lot more (without increasing clips).

2014-06-20 13:29

is the witcher 2 assasins of kings worth to buy ? it's at -80% atm

2014-06-21 10:43

/delete I don't want the CZ to be nerfed ;(

2014-06-19 23:45

1st comment! FUCK YEA !

2014-06-19 23:54

nice writeup, enjoyed it.

2014-06-20 00:04

CZ75 lol.. just find a corna and wait.

2014-06-20 00:11

We need to add more maps into the map pool We need to add more maps into the map pool We need to add more maps into the map pool cache+season+tuscan.

2014-06-20 01:49

The world rankings make no sense at all/NiP are the best team now, and so far in 2014 facepalm

2014-06-20 01:53

he said just that? they can be beaten by a number of teams now, but they are the most consistent team there is at the moment and clearly ahead of everybody else, thats what he said.

2014-06-20 02:02

clearly ahead by using SCAR on overtime vs Na'Vi

2014-06-20 02:04

Why is everyone so mad about NiP being #1? lol

2014-06-20 06:12

but the world rankings make no sense at all

2014-06-20 11:43

they don't, it's next to impossible to rank the teams in 2-10th places. doesn't mean nip isn't the clear number one, or that the rankings as a whole make no sense right now.

2014-06-20 12:37

You have to understand, autosnipers are not as frowned upon in CSGO as they were in 1.6. The game has moved on.

2014-06-20 11:51

what we really need is the group stage to be played with every map for every team. eg:(4 teams, 3 games) first game de_dust2, second game de_nuke, and so on.. cause watching every tourney and every game on de_inferno, not only reduces the amount of viewers, as it bores some spectators for watching the same map every game or even the ones playing it. this was done in previous tourneys in 1.6, it should be looked at, csgo needs a change, a good one..

2014-06-20 02:22

that's a terrible system, because: a) three-way ties knock teams out over round difference scored on different maps and starting on different sides - only thing that should matter is winning, not the score you win with b) you can't predetermine maps unless you go down to a very small pool; forcing Na`Vi to play de_nuke, for example, would be mega hurtful to them. same goes for Titan on de_train, etc. we simply need to add two more maps, go to a seven map pool, and change the map selection process from ban-ban-ban-ban-pick-pick-3rd to ban-ban-pick-pick-ban-ban-3rd. problem solved.

2014-06-20 12:38

yes, you're right, that makes sense. I just thought adding more maps wouldnt really change anything since teams would keep eliminating the ones they practiced less or felt less confortable in. a new map selection process is definitly the best solution. I still think the one you mentioned is going to show us a lot of inferno play, but it's a start

2014-06-20 14:04

Wonderful work lurrpis :)

2014-06-20 02:55

two best-of-ones should not determine a team's faith when a tournament only has the best of the best present. ^

2014-06-20 03:08

Why Delpan for Maikelele ? Delpan is a great awper, but Maikelele is amazing with the aim... Maikelele is the best of SK, also of pita. Delpan must replace a member, but no to Maikelele

2014-06-20 03:09

cant u read? lurpis said that delpan should replace roque, not eksem (who is the best player in SK btw).

We learnd that pro play in cs:go is not a job but charity.

2014-06-20 03:50

Very well written article. Pleasure to read. It would however have been nice if HR was also analysed as the other teams though. They played really well this time.

2014-06-20 06:02

i hope to write about hr in more detail in the coming weeks

2014-06-20 12:41

Look forward to it. While I might have issues with your somewhat abrasive personality sometimes, you remain my favourite writer on hltv. Keep it up!

2014-06-20 19:56

There are too many retarded Americans in this thread.

2014-06-20 08:25

What we learn from DH is CSGO teams are too random KAPPA

2014-06-20 08:50

Good read! One thing stuck in my mind: 'there were 273 CZ75 kills at DreamHack 164 more than with a P250, for which the CZ75 is supposed to be an alternative' Hope this is a wakeup call for Valve

I think the biggest problem is with the GSL group system is when a group looks like this: 1st seeded team (expect to beat everybody in the group) 2nd 3rd seed in the group (race for the 2nd spot) 4th seeded team (expect to loose vs everybody in the group) In this case there are 2 important matches between the 2nd and 3rd seeded team , and the team who wins the first match have to win the second also (for example SK vs fnatic DHS 2014) , so there is no advantage for you if u win first you have to win 2:0 vs the other team, and the other teams need just 1:1 in 2 maps, and yeah you just show your best map on the first match if you win , and the map removing strategy. so i think bo3 group stage matches should be more relevant

2014-06-20 10:17

Good job, lurppis!

2014-06-20 11:18

olof dennis twist pyth Delpan This team needs to happen for ESL One, seriously.

2014-06-20 11:48

twist currently most underrated player in the world imo

2014-06-20 14:31

f0rest MVP ofc... the best player now and ever imo.

2014-06-20 11:57

yep. have to agree.

2014-06-20 14:32

IMO, CZ is the most logical replacement for the 5-7. Both pretty accurate at medium and short range, good damage. You get a lot more bullets with 5-7, you get a better rate of fire with CZ.

2014-06-20 12:25

titan have still got it, with a player like scream on your team and nbk, you will always be competitive and have that potential to go all the way. I just think they are dealing with internal issues of some kind. They are in a funk as a team, which came at a really unfortunate time for them having shown significant promise of being no1. They will be back if ex6tenz can keep everyone together.

scream has been mostly average since eswc. event-wise he has finished with a negative k-d in 3/7 events, once at +-0 (dreamhack summer) and positive 3/7 times (granted he was VERY good at copenhagen games and sltv starseries ix finals).

2014-06-20 14:44

Their issues are that they lost shox, still use smithz, and scream hasn't been consistent in a long time. I also feel that while they're tactically sound, they rarely seem to have team play, which is important as hell.

2014-06-20 21:10

WP f0rest. Was a beast in the latter stages.

2014-06-20 17:44

"What did we learn from DH summer?" Some teams prefer to avoid lan events.

2014-06-20 17:58

cz is just another p90, but with smaller clip. Spray and pray. Too bad it hits so many times ;)

2014-06-21 10:07

- IF ex6 retires, they need to bring shox back and make smithzz the caller and shox the mid-round caller as he was before leaving. - In the majors groupstage matches really need to be bo3. It's just up to the organizers to make it happen and fit it to the schedule. - CZ should cost 450-600$$ and deagle needs a slight buff - fnatic needs to make some player changes, there are really sick individuals atm in sweden. (delpan, olof, twist)

2014-06-24 14:34