ESL takes stance on academy teams

22-4-2017 14:50

ESL has released a statement clarifying the eligibility of academy teams for ESL One Cologne.

With the first European open qualifier for the Cologne event set to start this Saturday, ESL has reminded that each organisation and legal entity is only entitled to "one license per tournament", which includes the qualifying stages.

This means that academy teams cannot take part in the open qualifiers if another team of the same organisation has been invited to the main event or to the closed qualifier, or if it has signed up for the same qualifier.

fnatic Academy are registered for this weekend's open qualifier

ESL has indicated that it is willing to grant an exception to organisations who provide a written confirmation that, at least four weeks before the part the competition in which the main team is involved, "the academy squad will either be sold or their contracts will be terminated for them to participate with a new organization and under a new name."

Currently, eight academy teams are registered for this weekend's open qualifier, including fnatic Academy. With fnatic having been invited to ESL One Cologne, the organisation will have to adhere to this new rule for the academy team to be able to play in the qualifier.

wow nice good to hear esl is the best

2017-04-22 14:50

4 replies

so fake

2017-04-22 14:51

ESL great success

2017-04-22 15:31

Good call by ESL. Unfair for other organizations not having a chance to win prizes because organizations have taken up more than one spot. Academy teams are complete trash

2017-04-22 19:39

1 reply

I like how you started with a good rational and thought process and then completely ruined it with the ignorant statement that all academy teams are trash. Why even bother typing that first part lol. Obviously if an academy team is good enough to make it through the qualifiers and beat non academy teams then they clearly aren't trash. However I do agree with this stance from ESL, every org should have an equal opportunity in having their name represented at the tournament.

2017-04-22 23:31

wow

2017-04-22 14:50

ezzz

2017-04-22 14:50

nice

2017-04-22 14:50

cool

2017-04-22 14:50

ESL is retarded

2017-04-22 14:50

15 replies

Yeah until academy team has to play main team, and one lets the other one win and everyone starts crying again.

2017-04-22 14:53

12 replies

the main team will win 90% of the time... fnatic beat fnatic academy 2-0 and JW was going for knifes for 20 rounds. ESforce and rfrsh owning 3 teams ea is a lot worse imo

2017-04-22 15:02

10 replies

This is not limited to same organization match-ups problems. It has to do with possible conflicts of interest with regards to other teams as well (for example losing on purpose a match when you're already (dis)qualified to favor your organization's other team or avoid a bracket match-up straight in the quarters, among other possible things).

2017-04-22 15:27

9 replies

so ban them for when it happens. They're just assuming there would be a conflict of interest with no actual evidence

2017-04-22 17:57

5 replies

There's no need for assumptions, there would be a conflict of interest for sure if that was allowed. Whether or not the teams would take advantage of it is indeed an assumption, but obviously tournament organizers can't just expect organizations competing for money, visibility and prestige to just "play nice", that would be naive from them. That's why they're preventing this, to avoid the conflict of interest to even be here in the first place, so that there can be no risk on this end. Banning them when it happens is already possible, and would be done if there is proven collusion between competitors in any way, but this is a last resort because it's bad for everyone if that happens. It's bad for the hosting org, it's bad for the event, it's bad for the scene. It's much better to limit the risks as much as possible rather than trying to patch a wound that could have been avoided.

2017-04-22 18:44

4 replies

Yet ESForce has three teams in the top ten, none of which are affected by this rule. No conflict of interest there? This is complete bullshit

2017-04-22 19:32

3 replies

I don't know the details about what decision power ESForce has in those teams. If by any chance they had any, then the same restriction should be applied.

2017-04-22 19:43

2 replies

They own the orgs, isn't that enough information?

2017-04-22 20:30

1 reply

No, because it depends what it means. It depends in what terms the ownership is considered. You can own something in your name and not be the actual person who's taking the decisions for that thing, or you may take only certain kinds of decisions, the rest (or all of it) being handled by someone else, like a committee. It really depends what contracts bind those teams and ESForce. These contracts should be made available to hosting organizations so that they can investigate what kind of decision power ESForce has on the teams which are behind them. But I think that ESL has already expressed their stance towards multi-ownership through WESA's decision (hltv.org/news/20003-wesa-takes-multi-own.. ). From what I understand, RFRSH and ESForce are already on the 18 months deadline to abide by those rules.

2017-04-22 21:23

Aka the iBP method

2017-04-22 18:03

Academy Teams will lose 90% of the time vs any half decent team they won't get that far lmao

2017-04-22 23:02

1 reply

Despite the fact that this number comes from nowhere, it's not about what results academy teams may achieve (and even if it was, the percentage left would still need to be addressed, if it was 10% it's still a 10% chance of collusion, which is huge). A team can collude with another even while losing a match or even while getting out of a tournament in groups anyway, so regardless of the ability of any team, academy or main team, there is a problem.

2017-04-23 00:22

Don't like 8 teams qualify? No one has to play their academy team

2017-04-22 17:25

Do you even sports? Since when in history of sports could Academy teams play same league as the original team? scrub

2017-04-22 15:21

1 reply

exactly, but that's in SPORTS

2017-04-22 16:14

good

2017-04-22 14:50

Expected

2017-04-22 14:50

seriously with esl, this is players careers and they're messing with them

2017-04-22 14:51

5 replies

If u watching fnatic vs fnatic Academy you will understand.they just trolling.not playing

2017-04-22 14:57

2 replies

cuz fnatic would win like 32-10 if they tried

2017-04-22 15:03

fnatic raped academy tho

2017-04-22 17:43

The same situation is in LoL, C9 sold their academy team because they qualified to lcs GG! but i understand their decision in 100%

2017-04-22 15:16

actually, they are helping players advance in their career by forcing their main organization to find a good buyer. thus giving the academy team its own name and status

2017-04-29 01:48

Sad story

2017-04-22 14:51

1 reply

How is this sad? It is a good move by ESL.

2017-04-22 16:27

wrf

2017-04-22 14:51

Nice, better for eSports! Good move from ESL.

2017-04-22 14:51

rip academy teams then if main team is invited LUL

2017-04-22 14:51

2 replies

I agree with you

2017-04-22 14:55

would be rip academy team anyway they wont get to the event anyway...

2017-04-22 14:55

fucking shit, fuck of ESL

2017-04-22 14:51

so basically esl wants to destroy academy teams? good job.

2017-04-22 14:51

1 reply

ikr? fuck those academy teams... ESL FUCKYEAH

2017-04-22 16:12

this is a good change

2017-04-22 14:51

right thing for sure

2017-04-22 14:51

Thanks God.

2017-04-22 14:51

Ridiculous. The big organisations have been trying to support the new generation with Academy's and now they can't play big tournaments

2017-04-22 14:52

1 reply

they wont get to big tournaments for a reason that's why they're academy players and not on the #1-2-3 best team of their country

2017-04-22 14:54

gg ESL, you destroyed another opertunity for younger players to grow and get better

2017-04-22 14:52

1 reply

No? There's plenty of orgs out there looking for teams and plenty of tournaments that lower level teams can go to that main teams don't attend if the academy teams decide to stay with their current org. And to add on to that, IF these academy teams do win the lower level tournaments then there's even more reason for orgs attempting to get into the scene to look at them and potentially buy out their contracts/offer the team more money.

2017-04-22 23:40

Why tho? What's the point in that?

2017-04-22 14:53

5 replies

isnt it obvious...?

2017-04-22 15:16

4 replies

Its not, why only restrict it to "legal entity level", wont be that hard to register another legal entity and have the same owners own it. If conflict of interest is the issue here, then teams with same ownership should also not be allowed. ESL Logics: 1. Proven cheaters = deserve a second chance, Throwing 1 game = lifetime ban (there were no rules against betting on oneself) 2. Same legal entity = Conflict of interest Same ownership =/= Conflict of interest Looking forward to what they comeup with in the future.

2017-04-22 15:38

3 replies

hltv.org/news/20003-wesa-takes-multi-own..

2017-04-22 15:41

2 replies

I still don't see it working. What if these teams choose to walk out of WESA? And if they are given 18months time, why not these academy teams? Enough time for them to learn through these tournaments and fetch their org a good money on transfer to some other org. They wont be an academy forever anyway!

2017-04-22 15:56

1 reply

well i see your point but... there are much more involved(money) in teams ownership than in academy teams secondly its like investment in those ownerships so its actually pretty irrelevant if team A or team B will win if the investor is same person but its HUGE difference for actual teams and their academy teams.its like freaking F1 if you know what i mean... btw this rule is like in everey reaking sport and its right rule.there are ofc other problems,even bigger problems but that doesnt mean that this rule shouldnt be implemented

2017-04-22 16:25

ESL always fucks up in some way. Nothing new. LUL

2017-04-22 14:53

do u really think a team like north academy or fnatic academy can qualify for cologne? fnatic academy couldn't even get out of groups at COPENHAGEN GAMES... teams like vega, HR, mouz, NV, fking hell even F3 would rekt them

2017-04-22 14:53

Sucks for the academy teams, but at least it eliminates the slight chance of conflicts of interests happening.

2017-04-22 14:53

Who cares? Take a stance on match fixers, then we'll give a shit.

2017-04-22 14:53

What. The. Fuck. Why even whats the fucking point?

2017-04-22 14:53

What a joke...

2017-04-22 14:53

wtf ESL

2017-04-22 14:53

>Allows vac'ed players to play >Doesn't allow academies to play I can understand that they want to avoid having the academy and the main team playing each other and having the org deciding the result, but I don't think it's fair to deny access to qualifiers for young teams that are developing.

2017-04-22 14:53

2 replies

the possibility of the academy team actually playing the main team is next to none lol like do they really expect fnatic academy to get to cologne? like no they won't make it past quarters of the qualifier...

2017-04-22 14:57

1 reply

yup I agree. They are focusing in all the wrong things imo.

2017-04-22 15:13

It's just like soccer or anything else with these babybrother teams thing. I think its only fair.

2017-04-22 14:54

this is stupid I know that they are worry about matchfixing ut this kill every new talednted team and just fuck every org that try to develop talent

2017-04-22 14:55

its a joke ?

2017-04-22 14:55

I actully like this. N1 ESL good job. :)

2017-04-22 14:57

well it's fair tbh

2017-04-22 14:57

But ESForce and RFRSH is ok lul

2017-04-22 14:57

2 replies

ESforce is almost half the Wesa teams lol

2017-04-22 15:04

Ownership doesnt create a conflict. The investors couldnt care less og one or the other teams wins they get the same amount og money. Whilst with acd. And min acd teams you suddenly ser a conflict sine min acd team makes the org more money than the acd team. Also having a say in salaries can effect teams more than a majority stock holder can. Edit fuck autocorrect my message is aids

2017-04-22 21:29

Envy academy coming in the following days

2017-04-22 14:59

Laughing at all the retards in here calling out ESL on their choice. This is completely normal in every sport. Do you think fnatic should play their academy team in a major? How dumb are you guys?

2017-04-22 14:59

good idea unban cheaters and dont alllow to play academy teams

2017-04-22 15:01

Great fucking decision but now please take care of esforce and rfrsh as well. Thanks in advance ESL

2017-04-22 15:02

haha, what a bullshit

2017-04-22 15:02

ESL xD

2017-04-22 15:03

Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with rfresh owning 3 teams. SK, VP and Na'Vi are fine as well with their financial ties via a holding company. Apparently, massive conflict of interest is not an issue, as long as long as you don't give your teams the same name.

2017-04-22 15:09

4 replies

but ESforce is almost half of the wesa teams

2017-04-22 15:05

2 replies

Really? Last time I checked, they owned VP, brand rights of Na'Vi and a non-deciding stake in SK. I guess the cancer is spreading, and probably won't ever stop spreading, since ESForce and ESL have pretty much the same legal team, and Valve doesn't seem to give a shit.

2017-04-22 15:13

1 reply

They own over half of sk so they own them

2017-04-22 23:03

2017-04-22 15:14

But why lol?

2017-04-22 15:04

1 reply

Watch fna vs fna Aca . They just throw every round

2017-04-22 15:08

great decision... We cant see two or three barcas or real madrids teams in every league, so why it should be different in esport?

2017-04-22 15:08

This is good, I want to see ESL destroying leftovers of it's reputation until there is nothing left!

2017-04-22 15:11

This is a great ruling because obviously having two teams represents a conflict of interest, and academy teams don't by definition even belong in the same tournaments as the main teams.

2017-04-22 15:10

good move. better from esl to take a stance in advance to prevent totally unfair things like iBP stuff happening. tier 1 events for tier 1 teams. academy teams are for lower tier events. if your academy team has the potential to qualify for tier 1 events then it's no longer an academy team more like a second squad. and since the danger is always there for corruption this is a very good move.

2017-04-22 15:12

2 replies

Lol tier 10000 teams can still participate qualifier tho so tier 1 events for tier 1 teams makes no sense XDDD...

2017-04-22 15:16

1 reply

if a team thinks it can qualify for a tier 1 event it's not a tier 1000 team. if you want your academy team to participate in tier 1 event qualifiers you think as an org they have a chance at qualifying for the event. tier 1 events for tier 1-3 teams. and those are a lot of teams already. it doesn't make any sense to want to have a tier 3 academy team. academy teams is just for finding new talent who in reality still suck (tier 20) but have great potential bcz they are young.

2017-04-22 15:29

Dont see much difference between academies and sk/vp playing in the same tournament.

2017-04-22 15:16

wow esl... retarded move ..

2017-04-22 15:16

oh well not too bad ruling tho as seems weird academy team playing against main team being possibility xd...

2017-04-22 15:19

ESL trying to be RIOT? xdxdxdxd

2017-04-22 15:19

What about ESforce? What is the difference?

2017-04-22 15:28

This is actually a fair move, stops potential susipicion if academy teams end up facing the big brother team at the actual event, as well as qualifiers.

2017-04-22 15:36

ESL Rules :DDD

2017-04-22 15:38

stupid ass rule, limiting accessibility is way more harmful than potential throwing. only doto fags agree with this. They all have this kind of mentality to never stick up for the players but the corporations.

2017-04-22 15:45

esl u stoopid

2017-04-22 15:43

good job! only k1ds dont understand this is the right step!

2017-04-22 15:50

Academy Teams playing their mother teams was always bullshit and needed to get removed. ESforce and rfrsh have gotten a deadline by WESA (ESL) till, I think, july 2018 or so to remove their commitments to one team only.

2017-04-22 15:52

7 replies

What if these teams walk out of WESA?

2017-04-22 15:57

1 reply

Doesnt matter, as WESA has a single event rulled under their belt: ESL Pro League. If they move out of WESA (or dont want to be a part of it anyway like rfrsh), they can only send a single team to ESL Pro League from the deadline day onwoards. Its likely that the WESA rulings will be put on all ESL events sooner or later, so that multi team owners get removed out of all ESL events after the deadline.

2017-04-22 16:00

If you honestly believe that teams would be dumb enough to throw against their parent team after what happened to IBP you're delusional. The org will get the same amount of money no matter which of their teams win so there would be no incentive for them to pressure for one to throw.

2017-04-22 16:47

4 replies

do u see Fnatic vs Fnatic Academy Fnatic throw fucking hard. Maybe hdc betting in match

2017-04-22 16:53

1 reply

Yeah sure, fnatic, people who are paid 5000-10,000 euros a month would risk all that to win a bet that would 100% have to be low so to not go detected.

2017-04-22 18:29

If you are not as dump as fuck and leave the evidence on the table, you can throw games very easily without risking to get caught. Yes, I think that academy teams (but also Rfresh or ESforce teams) would not perform as good as they could, if the teamowner tells them to let a certain team pass for the greater good. This does not even need to include betting on themself, just not trying to win because they have been told to do so.

2017-04-22 17:02

1 reply

No player would risk throwing a match in the post IBP era especially when money in esports is as high as it is now, if a team is being pressured by their org to throw they need only show evidence to someone like RLewis and their org will be butt fucked out of esports and the players would have orgs lining up to sign them because the players would instantly become a hot topic and any org picking them up would get a ton of free exposure.

2017-04-22 18:27

This rules makes a fucking sense tho..

2017-04-22 15:54

Retarded that rfrsh and esforce teams can still participate against each other. Otherwise good rule

2017-04-22 15:57

All this multi team bullshit will be done soon.

2017-04-22 16:04

RIP fnatic go home signs :c

2017-04-22 16:18

Lmao their gonna say this and still nothing is done against people like ESFORCE. This is so stupid

2017-04-22 16:20

imgur.com/a/FdufI

2017-04-22 16:36

This is a stupid rule tbh. Can't see any reason for this.

2017-04-22 16:37

nice bullshit ESL

2017-04-22 16:40

Stupid as fuck, not enough orgs in esports to go around so some smart orgs decide to start academy teams to allow the new gen to develop and ESL decides to swing it's dick around to show its power. Whoever was involved in this decision clearly does not have players best interests in mind.

2017-04-22 16:43

5 replies

2017-04-22 16:51

It might be hard to swallow for now, but its the right decision if you think 5 seconds about it. There is no sport where a 2nd team can potentially face its main team.

2017-04-22 17:14

3 replies

In racing multiple people are always competing against each other while being owned by the same people. This happens in F1, rallying, NASCAR and even horse racing. There are not enough salary paying orgs in esports right now, most companies looking to get into esports are offering the bare minimum to teams like buying equipment and if they're lucky offering to pay for flights to events. Academy teams are definitely the way forward for esports right now unless more orgs pop up offering liveable salaries yet ESL have decided to put one nail in the coffin for absolutely no good reason. "What if an academy team throw to allow the main team a win? What if a main team throw to collect bet winnings?" If anyone honestly believes any of those things would happen then they are delusional because the reward for doing that Vs the repercussions of being found out are in no sane persons eyes worth it.

2017-04-22 18:19

2 replies

And youre telling me there have been no problems in F1 with drivers battling each other and internal politics for who has the "right" to win? If u spin ur logic far enough, we could see one day fnatic, fnatic Academy.swe, fnatic Academy.dk, fnatic Academy.na & fnatic Academy.de in one group at a major. Do u wanna see that and the problems evolving from that? I understand your point that it is helpful to have more teams getting "better" help from professional organisation such as fnatic, North & so on and im fully for that. Give young players the tools to get better & earn money, but they have all these advantages by joining such big organisations, they have to accept the fact that they arent the #1 team of their organisation and therefore cant do all the same tournaments. I dont see that being a problem. If you got a problem with that, dont join North for example, try it for yourself without the help of the organisation, so all can be yours.

2017-04-22 23:19

1 reply

I would be fine with seeing fnatic."insert any word here" because it wouldn't matter, the 5 men playing in the team matter. My favourite team is NiP, if all 5 players left NiP and joined fnatic#2 i would now support fnatic#2, who owns the org doesn't make an difference to me and shouldn't to any fan. And don't get me wrong, im not saying the rule makes no sense, because it would make sense (or at least a little) if there were a lot more leagues/tournaments than we currently have, lets say all big leagues/torunys decide to do this academy teams would be left with the scraps the main team didn't want, never being given the chance to prove themselves on a big stage. Take fnatic for example, the academy team would have to be playing amazingly for a string of months and at the same time have fnatic be playing quite shit to be considered to be put through in place of the main team to a large money tournament.

2017-04-22 23:53

ESL delivering just like everytime :) FU

2017-04-22 16:49

I guess ESL doesnt support Up and Coming players.

2017-04-22 16:59

4 replies

You know any sport where the 2nd team of a club can potentially play in the same league as its main team? If that would be possible. There would be 3 teams of Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga, 3 teams of Real Madrid in the PD and so on. Its the only logical step to further professionalize eSports. Its a hard blow for Academy teams, but there are enough events to still play in imo. Thats why they accepted joining a big organisation to have many advantages, but they are still the 2nd team. You cant take all the good and ignore the bad.

2017-04-22 17:13

3 replies

Ok, have you seen German team in La Liga? Have you seen NA team playing in EU competition? Let's not allow NA teams to play in EU tournaments and so on. Nice fucking logic. It's kind of bullshit in eSports (and it works in League of Legends as well).

2017-04-22 17:58

2 replies

If u spin ur logic far enough, we could see one day fnatic, fnatic Academy.swe, fnatic Academy.dk, fnatic Academy.na & fnatic Academy.de in one group at a major. Do u wanna see that and the problems evolving from that?

2017-04-22 23:15

1 reply

Why not? I think, that there might be Real Madrid A, B, C, D playing in Champions League if they would all qualify. I don't really care how are teams gonna be called and who's gonna pay them.

2017-04-23 08:56

Sounds great.

2017-04-22 17:03

fair enough

2017-04-22 17:22

Damn that sucks, this means only one of VP, Na'Vi or SK can qualify, and one of Astralis, Heroic or Godsent can qualify.

2017-04-22 17:58

so academy teams and people who threw one match for $300 3 years ago are banned but aimbotters can play, ight

2017-04-22 19:11

what about esforce/rfresh?

2017-04-22 19:55

What the fuck is the point of this? To force up-and-coming teams to either fend for themselves or get backing from small organizations that can't provide the means for them to go pro? I swear ESL is looking more and more like ESEA

2017-04-22 19:58