PGL Major to introduce map veto changes

11-7-2017 15:52

PGL Major Krakow will have a slightly different map veto system for best-of-one matches when compared to the ELEAGUE Major, the tournament organisers have revealed.

According to the rulebook, which was sent to the participating teams on Monday, after the vetos are locked in, the map that will be played will be picked by the higher-seeded side (Team A) instead of being randomly selected from the remaining two maps.

In theory, this change will give the higher-seeded teams a slight advantage as they can pick their stronger map or the one where their opponent - who continue to choose the starting side - is less favoured. However, Team B, the lower-seeded team, will now have three map bans, instead of just two.

Veto system for PGL Major Krakow has been changed

In the first Swiss round, the "Legends" have the higher seed and get to pick whether they want to be the team picking the map (Team A). In the subsequent rounds, a coin toss will be held to determine which team starts the veto process.

In the quarter-finals, the team with a better record in the Swiss stage will choose who starts the veto process. In the semi-finals and the final, the team choosing who starts the veto will be determined by the bracket order.

Below you can find the differences in the veto process between the ELEAGUE Major and PGL Major Krakow:

ELEAGUE Major:	PGL Major Krakow
Team A bans 1 map Team B bans 1 map Team A bans 1 map Team B bans 1 map Team A bans 1 map The final map is randomized from the two remaining maps Team B has side choice	Team A bans 2 maps in a row Team B bans 3 maps in a row Team A chooses the map to be played from the two remaining maps Team B has side choice

In the playoffs, the veto system remains the same. After a first round of singular bans, the teams pick one map apiece. Team B then get another ban, and Team A will select the series' decider map.

PGL Major Krakow will run from July 16-23 at TAURON Arena, with 16 teams duking it out for their share of a $1 Million prize pool.

Ez for olfonsmeistero

2017-07-11 15:54

3 replies

Not very good

2017-07-11 15:53

really bad omg

Ez for tier 1 teams

2017-07-11 15:56

2017-07-11 15:52

Wooow

nice

Interesting.

7 replies

2017-07-11 15:55

2017-07-11 16:02

2017-07-11 17:00

-3

2017-07-11 17:30

= 0

2017-07-11 18:40

/ 0

2017-07-12 20:37

1 reply

= 1

2017-07-12 21:36

cool

OOOH

Bad shit

expected

such change much wow

so bad

Can you explain why?

2017-07-11 16:01

Something different that could definitely be a game changer since 1 team can veto the opponents best maps

Uh... Both teams both can do that?

2017-07-11 19:53

Good

Wat

bad

Im in the beach and i dont want to read, is good or not?

Depends. It's neither good or bad. We don't know how will this goes until it actually used. TL;DR Now the ban process is changed. A has higher seed than B A bans 2 maps in a row. B bans 3 maps in a row. A choose a map to play from the remaining pool.

2017-07-11 16:06

6 replies

Thanks so much bro!

2017-07-11 16:15

Np, my spaniard.

2017-07-11 16:23

Thanks. Crystal clear!

2017-07-11 18:56

No prob.

2017-07-12 00:00

Don't forget that Team B picks T/CT side

2017-07-11 18:58

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that one. It is not that significant to the map choice though.

2017-07-12 00:01

Ez4Faze

... both team bans 3 maps,but one team pick side....

5 replies

But one team will do the last veto and select the map, in some matches it will be an advantage and other, select side will be. NBK said that the high seed will select if they will be team A or team B. More strategy, you'll need to think what is more important, do the last veto or select the side.

2017-07-11 15:58

true, but its pretty much almost same shit but makes team think twice or even 3 teams what should they rly do

2017-07-11 16:04

2 replies

It almost the same with 3 vetoes and knife round but not what was in previous majors. When teams bans two maps and the selected one was by a randomizer. I prever like that, no more excuses when you lose by "bad luck on randomizer"

2017-07-11 16:26

2017-07-11 16:27

*the B team only bans 3 maps

2017-07-11 17:50

gg, coin toss definitely provides an impartial way to find the top seeded team in this day and age

2017-07-11 16:18

2017-07-11 19:03

Shit

CmonBruh

Weird AF

No randomness = Good

Thank got we got rid of the randomizer. Upsets are OK but jesus christ the situation was getting out of hand.

interesting

2017-07-11 15:57

No Random = good

Coin toss now (the only exception being the first round of swiss system) to determine the higher seed. "no random" lul

First round, it actually uses the Legends and Challengers as the seed. In the subsequent rounds, then they use coin toss.

2017-07-11 16:10

They use the coin toss because in theory by decreasing the randomness you decrease the potential upsets. So one expects the legends to go 1-0 (except maybe navi that is up against g2 but what can you do about it really?), and challengers to go 0-1. At that point legends would fight against each other and produce "worse and better legends", same happens with challangers. Worse legends would go against better challengers, worse challangers would battle against each other to avoid the 0-2 and better legends would continue on fighting against legends. tl;dr It's more fair than you think it is.

2017-07-11 17:59

TY PGL <3

2017-07-11 15:59

Its barely barely the same, so obvious :D

2017-07-11 16:00

I was scared, but no randomizer is better no matter what.

Why they make the teams ban maps in row and not in turns? That takes away a huge tactical aspect of map picking.

dis gona be gud

this is awful for VP, the major is in poland and they let this happen ;(, now teams gonna insta ban nuke and train, and then what is VP left with? their shitty maps

8 replies

are you retarded bro? XD this system is for bo1 matches, both teams ban 3 maps anyway, its almost same shit

get baited in bro 8/8

2017-07-11 16:09

lol you are just retarded and now trying to hide it, stfu

lmao

2017-07-11 16:52

ofc XD what else can you say, nt anyway, i mean atleast you tried

2017-07-11 17:06

Almost, but not necessarily the same. With the previous system, if I was on the higher seed I will do: Ban 1: Map that I don't want to. Ban 2: Map that they want to. Ban 3: Either. In the lower seed. Ban 1: Map that I don't want to. Ban 2: Map that they want to. And pray for the randomizer to pick the better map for me. With this new system, if I was in the higher seed, I should ban the map that I don't want to play. If I don't they will ban the other map that I am good on, so I will be left with shit maps. Consequently, if I was in the lower seed, I can ban the map that I am bad on and the other team good, but won't have an opportunity to pick the actual map, rather than continuously reducing the map pool.

2017-07-11 16:22

are you serious? VP has one of the best mappool in csgo. that is not their problem, their problem is that they are in a huge slump. in this condition they would even lose to a semi-good team on nuke..

2017-07-11 16:07

he is just stupid ignore :D

2017-07-11 16:25

what is wrong on TEAM A TEAM B TEAM A TEAM B TEAM A TEAM B 1 map left..

2017-07-11 16:03

+1 Or the team A, team B, team B, team A, team A, team B.

2017-07-11 16:13

It adds a strategic aspect to which side to chose if you are upper seed or win the coin toss. Let's say it's a more exciting way of doing the veto process.

2017-07-11 18:00

No more wasted legends spot

coin toss best system xD

+. But dice is also great.

2017-07-11 16:17

spooiller VP perm bans de_cache/de_overpass in whole tournament aka 3x matches 4Head

Interesting think it will be good change

That's actualy Huuuuuuuge Just kidding, it doesn't change anything, SK will win anyway

Lol so bad

2017-07-11 16:08

So, this basically means that we won't see nuke, overpass, cbble and possibly train in the group stages. I love seeing 3 maps played over and over again over 4 days. /s

2017-07-11 16:11

I didn't understand how will it work in the bo3.

"...different map veto system for best-of-one matches ".

Thanks, my friend! Didn't read that part. lol

2017-07-11 16:45

this is so stupid

Yea, why would better teams have more advantage over underdogs. Like the underdogs are worse than the better team, why make it more worse for the underdogs. Retarded fucking Valve and their systems.

2017-07-11 16:19

4 replies

Uhhh actually you are retarded...it says PGL not VOLVO

2017-07-11 16:34

Actually you are retarded. Because Valve has to accept the changes since its a Major and they are a part of changing rules. So fuck you calling me retarded when we know you are the retarded one.

2017-07-11 16:39

haHAA actually i m 14 and i m retarded

2017-07-11 16:43

consistently losing teams like nip or c9 can hurt the viewership, thats why

2017-07-11 17:35

makes no sense but whatever its valve

2017-07-11 16:21

But why?

players seem to like it, but i dont

better, no random, and more fairness

2017-07-11 16:31

BOTH TEAMS BASICALLY HAVE 3 VETOS SO IT IS FAIR problem is teams banning maps in a row

2017-07-11 16:32

(Cache left)

2017-07-11 16:41

this is actually good because it removes the shittiest form of map picking, the randomizer. It's awesome for the bo1's

Team A bans two maps, but in the end get to choose one? What would the banning strategy be then, ban your worst two maps? I don't know, because it isn't randomized in the end, it sounds stupid to have the team that will pick the map also ban maps, but I think I can get used to it.

What? Sounds like you want the lower team to Ban the maps and the higher seeded team to Pick one of the not banned maps. The whole change is to give higher seeded team the advantage because they earned it

2017-07-12 12:49

I don't have a problem with format, it is just the concept of 'banning' from a pool you will ultimately choose from. If I think about it like choosing ice cream flavors (7 to choose from, 'ban' your two least favorite) then it doesn't seem as awkward, but still.

2017-07-12 17:20

Still EZ for SK

2017-07-11 16:57

Bad system, but better than randomizer

2017-07-11 17:04

Less weaker maps will be played and it's good.

2017-07-11 17:08

that's so stupid

2017-07-11 17:11

Sounds cool. Interesting change!

Great

2017-07-11 17:14

Coin toss doesn't make any sense.

Damn did someone at PGL start reading Thoorins tweets???

2017-07-11 17:20

Interesting

2017-07-11 17:21

weird... i dont like it. that means less cbble so less dragonlore... XD

2017-07-11 17:23

The main thing is that the randomiser is gone

Imo , this is a big step to a fair match between an underdog and a high tier team . I consider this map veto a lot better than the ELEAGUE one .

2017-07-11 17:34

Absolutely. I don't think anyone wanted the randomiser. Glad its gone.

2017-07-11 17:45

Make stronger teams stronger and a smaller procentage for upsets basically not as enjoyable to watch games. Shit format but what could you expect more from valve

maybe the not so strong teams should fucking start to get better and have a better map pool... I rather have this than only shit teams win ..who will get raped in a bo3

2017-07-11 17:42

this is bullshit lol..

2017-07-11 17:46

Cool

2017-07-11 18:02

so why would team A ban it's perma bans? I would ban the perman ban of team B; team B needs to know 4 maps and team A as well. if you ban the perma ban of team B, as team A, they have to ban at least 1 out of their top 3 maps in the remaining 5. but yet again, if you ban their best maps - they will predictable ban their perma bans and so there should be more good maps for you in the end. will see how it works out.

2017-07-11 18:03

dude are you high or sth?

2017-07-11 18:57

great no more random shiet like only cbble every match

2017-07-11 18:05

inception, csgo major cut

2017-07-11 18:24

IMO they just made the system more complicated and nothing else. But also it could favour the underdogs if you look closely :)

2017-07-11 18:32

Bye for some maps randomly picked

2017-07-11 18:35

2017-07-11 18:39

I'm glad they finally let teams ban town to a map, now all they need to do is add knife rounds, but of course they want to pretend the major is just really high level MM

2017-07-11 18:47

Awful

2017-07-11 19:04

Coin toss to decide the higher seed, you just know this system is shit

2017-07-11 19:13

Lets see if it works out

2017-07-11 19:19

All of the shitty comments in this thread make me happy knowing Valve cares more about Dota than CS. Nothing they will ever do will make you kids happy. Better teams with higher seeding DESERVE to have a slight advantage. Get a clue idiots.

2017-07-11 19:20

I don't know if it'll be good, I hope to see something different there! We smart, we loyal, we friendly, we are from BRAZIL! Kreygasm

2017-07-11 19:23

please don't win another major, give the young teams a chance. SK needs to be nerfed.

2017-07-11 19:37

eheheheh! I always want the title and we'll do whatever we can to do it! I hope to see better matches! good luck to all mates!

2017-07-11 19:40

Btw, the Brazilian football team is my fav team <3

2017-07-11 19:42

2017-07-11 19:46

stupid

2017-07-11 19:36

Id like to see pro teams playing nuke more often, its a very fun map to watch.

2017-07-11 19:39

> nuke > fun to watch pick one

2017-07-12 02:02

SK thanks for this change ty pgl

No more randomizer. Nice.

2017-07-11 19:44

Finally maybe no more cobble drops xD

good one najs

2017-07-11 20:16

From a game theory aspect, this system by Valve doesn't seem very whimsical or just something they've completely pulled from their ass. There's a lot of subtle nuance to some of the problems this veto system solves. Still not a big fan of them introducing a completely new veto system, but whatever.

2017-07-11 20:40

If anything, this new system favors underdogs because it gives them more bans and at a later stage. The higher seeded team has to ban first, which means they might ban a map the lower seeded team was going to ban as well. And the underdog even gets to choose the side so how exactly are underdogs being victims here? Also no random pick on maps which I really hated because some teams depended solely on that.

2017-07-11 20:41

Yeah, there will be a lot of upsets in the first round.

2017-07-11 21:04

The higher-seed team has the option to choose to be A or B. Trying to decompile the logic: Teams with deeper map pools (i.e., often the higher ranked teams) have the ability to suffocate teams with lesser map pools. Or have the ability to pick the actual map they want to play on. (This may be a little self-fulfilling) , but I think it's a way to attack seeding and remove RNG without introducing a seeding system.

2017-07-11 21:11

No, the higher seeded team is always A. So your whole premise makes no sense, sorry.

2017-07-12 02:08

where is god thooorins reaction, i need to know what to think of this

2017-07-11 20:48

Great change !

2017-07-11 22:00

I am glad they took out random element. It should not be impemented at all.

2017-07-11 22:01

Nice !

2017-07-11 22:06

Boring major, sk win ez

lmao this is so shit veto system i've seen so far wtf wrong with volvo

2017-07-12 00:06

First map SK play in nuke.... (?

2017-07-12 01:50

I feel like 90% of you miss the point of this. If Team A has a higher seed and only get to ban two maps, that leaves 5 maps for Team B to choose two from. That this favors Team A is kind of bullshit imo. It favors the lower seeded team more, if anything - but I wouldn't go so far as to say it does, either. For example: Team A bans Mirage Team A bans Inferno Team B may choose to play on any two of these: Cbble, Nuke, Train, Cache, Overpass Meaning that they may leave the two maps they feel the most comfortable/confident on. Out of five.

2017-07-12 01:54

Team A bans 2 maps in a row Team A chooses the map to be played from the two remaining maps Now team A can first remove the two of their worst maps or two best maps of B.Even if B takes out their worst 3 maps,team A get to choose their best of the remaining two.Team A has advantage.

2017-07-12 09:44

That's presuming that Team A will have less "worst maps" than Team B. If both teams have 3 maps they don't want to play, one of which overlaps, Team A will ban two of their three maps, leaving the overlapping map on the board. Team B will ban their two maps that they don't play, and may ban one of the other maps that is not the overlap. Leaving the map that Team A and Team B does not want to play, and a map that Team B is fully satisfied with, while Team A might not be. Team A has to choose the one that does not overlap (unless their name is NiP, of course - then all bets are off.) If both teams have two maps they don't want to play, with one overlapping, Team A will still ban their two maps that they won't play. Team B will ban their remaining 1 pick that they don't want to play, and get to decide which two of the remaining four maps is the most advantageous to them. If both teams have two maps they don't play with no overlap, Team A will ban their two maps that they won't play. Team B will ban their two maps, and decide which two out of the remaining three maps is the most advantageous to them. You pick to your own weaknesses first, not to your opponents'. In no world does this give an advantage to Team A. I'm not so sure it gives an advantage to anyone - but if there is one, it's definitely for Team B.

2017-07-12 18:40

Darkhorses are incoming x)

2017-07-12 02:42

this will give underdogs literally 0 chance. :D

2017-07-12 05:13

nice one

2017-07-12 05:23

LOL, rly? why?

2017-07-12 07:23

But isn't this basically: Team A Band 2 the Team B Band 3 and after that Team A Band another one and thenhe remaining one is Player than? So I guess in the end both Teams have 3 Bans and the lower seeded Team choses the site

2017-07-12 08:51