The unacceptable flaws of the round robin format

Round robin has been the dominant format since Counter-Strike moved online earlier this year, but it has a number of flaws that, among other issues, present dangers to competitive integrity.

By early June, round robin will have been used in group stages at the biggest tournaments for nearly three months in a row, with ESL Pro League Season 11, ESL One: Road to Rio, DreamHack Masters Spring, and BLAST Spring Showdown all featuring the format after the coronavirus pandemic struck and the CS:GO scene moved online. But there was a good reason why it began giving way to the GSL format eight years ago, after Tomi "⁠lurppis⁠" Kovanen had called for changes in mid-2012, and why it ended up eradicated altogether from big LANs in 2020, when BLAST finally gave up on it after two years. So why are we going back in time?

Round robin is an appealing format for tournament organizers for several reasons. Perhaps the biggest one of all is that the large number of matches played typically translates into more broadcast hours than other systems such as the GSL or Swiss, which means it takes up more of the day and the calendar and/or gives fans more variety in case of concurrent streams, allowing the tournament to attract a bigger audience.

Round robin groups will prevail until the end of BLAST Spring Showdown

With ESL Pro League producing record-breaking numbers during the pandemic, almost reaching a whopping 500,000 concurrent viewers mark, it's difficult to fault organizers for hogging as much time as possible. That approach makes perfect sense from a business standpoint, in particular at times like these when many of us are stuck at home, glued to the screen with nothing better to do than watch some Counter-Strike, and when a new audience is more accessible than ever.

To a degree, there's an argument to be made that it is also the most effective way to find the best teams in the group stage, especially when the participants are split into two groups as opposed to four or more. With everyone playing each other, you get a larger sample size than with other formats and a more accurate representation of where the teams stand among the rest.

But when it comes to non-ideal scenarios in which tiebreakers have to be used, the first problems appear. Even today, when time constraints are not nearly as big an issue as during LAN events and when schedules should allow some leeway, potential rematches are far on the bottom of tiebreaking scenarios and tournament organizers prioritize factors like map difference or worse, round difference.

You can see what these scenarios look like in an example from the ongoing ESL One: Road to Rio's rulebook:

1. Points amassed between the tied participants (direct match win > direct match loss)
2. Map difference between the tied participants (3:2 maps > 3:3 maps)
3. Number of map wins between the tied participants (3:3 maps > 2:2 maps)
4. Overall map difference
5. Overall number of map wins
6. Round score difference between the tied participants (23:21 > 23:22)
7. Number of round wins between the tied participants (24:22 > 23:21)
8. Overall round score difference (39:31 > 40:33)
9. Overall number of round wins (40:32 > 39:31)

Only after nine possible tiebreakers — out of which only the direct head-to-head results should matter — would there be rematches, and even in the virtually impossible case where we get that far down in the order they would be run in a shortened, overtime-like setting:

10. Sort by win-loss difference in the tiebreaker overtimes.
11. Sort by round score difference in the tiebreaker Ots.
12. Sort by number of round wins in the tiebreaker Ots.
13. If there are still unsolved ties, replay the tiebreaker Ots.

The exact same ruleset was used in ESL Pro League Season 11 and ended up eliminating Natus Vincere in fourth place of the second group stage in Europe due to map difference in a tie between them, MOUZ, and Astralis. Just before that, G2 had exited the tournament early because of the same scenario with FaZe and OG in the first group stage. Road to Rio is heading for a similar situation in both groups in Europe and MIBR already suffered the consequences in North America after a tie with Liquid and Envy. One map loss that held no significance within the series victory against the latter team cost MIBR a spot in the playoffs and could theoretically end up causing the Brazilians to miss the Major.

Teams simply don't operate under the assumption that they can't afford to lose a certain number of maps or rounds. They don't plan vetoes to have the best chance of winning 2-0, they structure them to have the best chance of winning the series, and they aren't thinking about how many more rounds they can afford to lose during a map beyond stopping the other team from reaching 16. It is ridiculous to try to objectively decide whether a 2-1 series in which the map scores went 16-3, 14-16, 16-5 was a better result than a 2-0 series where a team won both maps in overtimes, so don't. It shouldn't matter. The win is all that matters.

No one wants their fate to be in someone else's hands

Often times round robin also produces a different kind of situations in which a team's fate relies on a result completely out of their hands. SK found themselves in that undesirable position during their run to the title at BLAST Pro Series Copenhagen 2017, where they watched on anxiously as Astralis and FaZe were locked in a nail-biting battle that would have snatched a grand final spot away from the Brazilians had Nikola "⁠NiKo⁠" Kovač's team won the match.

This inherent dependence on results other than your own and the lack of proper tiebreakers make the round robin a shoddy format at best, and those are just two of its many problems, as well as perhaps the least worrisome.

One of its more dreadful characteristics is that more often than not at least one team's fate is determined before the end of the group stage. For example, look at Complexity and Dignitas in Road to Rio; they are about to play a match that, if it weren't for the 200 points' difference in the Regional Major Ranking in this case, would be competitively meaningless apart from a $1,000 increase in prizemoney, because both teams are already out of the running for the playoffs.

This essentially creates a showmatch-like environment in which neither side cares about the result, leading to bad Counter-Strike being played at best and at worst producing a sketchy habitat that is more likely to be fixed for betting earnings. If one side does have something to play for while the other doesn't, there's even more potential for the result to be manipulated, as there is a competitive advantage at stake. And it gets even worse when a team has the power to decide whom they will meet in the next stage of the tournament based on the outcome of a match they're about to play.

To see how this could work in practice, consider the round robin group below:

Denmark Astralis (4W - 0L)
Europe Cloud9 (3W - 1L)
Ukraine Natus Vincere (3W - 2L)
United States MIBR (2W - 1T - 2L)
Europe FaZe (0W - 2T - 3L)
Sweden Ninjas in Pyjamas (0W - 1T - 4L)

If this seems familiar, it's because this is a real situation that occurred at BLAST Pro Series Lisbon in late 2018. At 4-0, Astralis had already guaranteed themselves a spot in the grand final, and they played Cloud9 in the last round in a match that would determine their opponent in the title decider. The two possible outcomes were very straightforward: Lose or tie and face Timothy "⁠autimatic⁠" Ta's squad, at the time ranked 26th and playing with Ismail "⁠refrezh⁠" Ali as a stand-in, again, or win and take on the third-best team in the world, Natus Vincere.

Although it was close, the Danes ended up winning the match 16-14 and beating Danylo "⁠Zeus⁠" Teslenko's team in the final, avoiding any scrutiny coming their way, but imagine yourself in their shoes. It would be seriously tempting to consider losing the match — or not trying your hardest at the very least —, wouldn't it?

If so, you can see what dangers the round robin format presents to competitive integrity on top of all the other issues it has when it comes to unclear placings that come down to rubbish tiebreakers and depend on results the team in question has no power over. Does it really need to be used when with a little creativity more competitively viable and less dangerous formats could serve the same purpose?

Ukraine Danylo 'Zeus' Teslenko
Danylo 'Zeus' Teslenko
Age:
32
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.92
Maps played:
1400
KPR:
0.63
DPR:
0.69
Denmark Ismail 'refrezh' Ali
Ismail 'refrezh' Ali
Age:
22
Rating 1.0:
1.05
Maps played:
661
KPR:
0.71
DPR:
0.65
Bosnia and Herzegovina Nikola 'NiKo' Kovač
Nikola 'NiKo' Kovač
Age:
23
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.16
Maps played:
1215
KPR:
0.80
DPR:
0.67
United States Timothy 'autimatic' Ta
Timothy 'autimatic' Ta
Age:
23
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.08
Maps played:
1055
KPR:
0.75
DPR:
0.67
Finland Tomi 'lurppis' Kovanen
Tomi 'lurppis' Kovanen
Age:
32
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.95
Maps played:
28
KPR:
0.63
DPR:
0.65
#13
 | 
Turkey erturkgg
Good article
2020-05-09 12:10
0
21 replies
finalyy thats wat i was crying till date
2020-05-09 14:48
0
17 replies
Good article.
2020-05-09 15:12
0
16 replies
Tl:dr
2020-05-09 15:31
0
15 replies
#144
 | 
Europe crittaN
Just read it you uneducated fuck. Good and well-written article, Striker. The community agrees 100%
2020-05-09 15:51
0
14 replies
stfu Mohammad. Striker: I don't fucking care if this stupid community agrees 100%.
2020-05-09 16:22
0
10 replies
#163
 | 
Europe crittaN
Youre on the wrong website if you dont care about the competitive scenen in cs. Get and education and get a job. Youll be a happier person. I expect to hear from you in 5-7 years when you have your life in order, thanking me for this pep talk. Good luck!
2020-05-09 16:23
0
9 replies
It's annoying to read such long posts. And why should I thank you for trash talk? I think you should get a job, toxic fucks like you ruin the website. :) Good Luck, Moron!
2020-05-09 16:30
0
8 replies
#168
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Europe crittaN
2020-05-09 16:31
0
2 replies
Great article.
2020-05-09 18:33
0
Great article.
2020-05-09 18:33
0
#207
 | 
North America SK_Skay
#144 + nice slums
2020-05-09 18:01
0
4 replies
Nice burgers, fat fuck
2020-05-09 19:04
0
3 replies
#270
 | 
Switzerland veasih
Read #144 again and shut up Have a good day!
2020-05-10 14:57
0
2 replies
out of words?
2020-05-10 15:53
0
1 reply
#275
 | 
Switzerland veasih
Read #144 again and shut up Have a good day!
2020-05-10 16:09
0
Imagine thinking the community agrees to this trash.
2020-05-09 17:20
0
u agreeing automatically means the entire community agrees?
2020-05-09 17:39
0
1 reply
#228
 | 
Europe crittaN
have you read the comment section?
2020-05-09 18:35
0
Holy fuck #13
2020-05-09 16:36
0
Cri mor hltv
2020-05-09 16:56
0
+1 very interesting
2020-05-10 03:06
0
good article
2020-05-09 12:09
0
2 replies
good article mibr top 1
2020-05-09 16:32
0
American MIBR!
2020-05-09 18:23
0
Unexpected, but you're right
2020-05-09 12:09
0
very insteresting topic... u should read it
2020-05-09 12:11
0
1 reply
i did
2020-05-10 10:16
0
#22
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Cyprus eClipz-AU
Issue with a format whereby teams fates are in other teams hands is that this will lead to corruption. The format where you had to win 3 matches to advance works, 3 losses and you’re out. Plenty of chances for better teams to go through but also offers a chance for lesser teams to take some wins and possibly also advance.
2020-05-09 12:11
0
13 replies
Teams’ fates are always in their own hands. Just win all your games and other teams have no say to your fate
2020-05-09 12:23
0
8 replies
#50
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Cyprus eClipz-AU
I agree that they should be aiming to win all their matches, but I think it’s easy for teams to collude or corruption to take place when it’s like this. I mean if you have friends in a team that you know will advance if you throw a game, which will also lead to you advancing, you can see how easy it is to do something like that.
2020-05-09 12:37
0
3 replies
On the other hand throws should be punished harshly as matchfixing. I know this is too dreamy but it should work this way
2020-05-09 15:27
0
2 replies
#140
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Slovenia yack
And how exactly would you define what a throw is ? There are way too many variables here to consider punishing teams for "throwing".
2020-05-09 15:41
0
1 reply
yeah, I know, but like IBP throw was obvious, but you are 100% right
2020-05-09 20:02
0
"just win all your games" yeah bro its that easy its that simple just win why didn't I think of that?
2020-05-15 03:25
0
3 replies
I didn't say it's easy. But the argument "your fate is in somebody else's hands" is bullshit because to begin with it's in your own hands and you can keep it in your own hands by winning.
2020-05-16 13:37
0
2 replies
well your argument is bullshit because you cant just win all your games. shaking my smh my head
2020-05-17 14:49
0
1 reply
Again, I didn't say teams can win all their games. But still, teams' faith is in no one else's hands than their own. Of course teams risk their playoff spot if they lose but it's not like "boo hoo we (team A) would have proceeded if the result of this other match (team B vs. team C) was different" instead it is "boo hoo if we would have proceeded if WE had won team B in the first place and then the result of B vs. C would not have affected us anyhow"
2020-05-17 21:25
0
U mean Swiss format? Yeah it's good
2020-05-09 13:22
0
They can make a swiss system with only bo3, so underdogs would be less likely to upset bigger teams. However, time could be a problem in LANs
2020-05-09 15:09
0
2 replies
But we're strictly talking about how Round robin dominated the recent online scene, so time ain't a problem right now, swiss would be a more suitable choice for the time being
2020-05-09 15:36
0
1 reply
Yes, I agree. However, I still think they should consider doing bo3 swiss system on the real major.
2020-05-09 16:05
0
> out of which only the direct head-to-head results should matter Why? There's no reason why this is any more important than other results. If there are two teams with for example 4-3 score , with 5 similar results against 5 teams, but with following difference: team A convincigly beat best team in the group, but lost to team B in close match, whereas B lost convincingly to best team in the group (and won closely against A), why is B supposed to be stronger than A? It's entirely possible that the next day A will beat B. The only way to save "competitive integrity" is to have rematches between all teams with same result.
2020-05-09 12:14
0
3 replies
+1
2020-05-09 16:13
0
#186
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Sweden Extremaz
+1
2020-05-09 17:08
0
+1. He just casually put a subjective opinion as If It were a established rule.
2020-05-09 17:55
0
#26
 | 
United Kingdom _xC4ctus
Tl dr
2020-05-09 12:14
0
1 reply
#146
 | 
Europe crittaN
Uk education
2020-05-09 15:56
0
Article is very interesting.
2020-05-09 12:17
0
2 replies
#67
 | 
Pakistan LoOuU2
+1 had fun reading it and it raises a major concern too.
2020-05-09 12:58
0
1 reply
#286
 | 
Netherlands SpiceNut
+1 Especially for the major
2020-05-14 15:44
0
#29
 | 
Finland pate1
just do rematches when team are tied with wins and losses. imo cs should only be win or lose not map or round differences
2020-05-09 12:16
0
9 replies
#43
 | 
Brazil _Awper
Round difference is the most stupid thing in CS, of course teams that play more Train, Nuke and Inferno will have less rounds... While teams that play maps with stomp potential like Mirage, Overpass and Vertigo, will get rewarded just by playing them...
2020-05-09 12:28
0
5 replies
#58
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Cyprus eClipz-AU
100%. Doesn’t matter how good a team you are, some maps have stronger T/CT variance and will lead to some teams round win/loss being totally blown out if they get unlucky on map & starting side draw.
2020-05-09 12:39
0
1 reply
solution: 1. go back to mid-1.6 era when every map is played for FULL 30 rounds. 2. use knife round for every map. its your fault to lose a knife round and start from disadvantage side. solution 2 is not so good in csgo because valve have ruled out knife headshot, making knife round less tactical and competitive.
2020-05-10 00:25
0
#104
 | 
Russia agrachiv
Also round difference is irrelevant since the math can last less than 30 rounds. For example team A is very good on some ct sided map VS team B, so that team A at average wins 11-4 as ct and 8-7 as t. If they start on ct side expected match score is going to he between 16-4 and 16-11, but if they start as t side (weaker side so they are less lickely to have better map differnce) they can win 16-7 at best
2020-05-09 13:56
0
2 replies
+1
2020-05-09 15:10
0
#187
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Sweden Extremaz
true +1
2020-05-09 17:18
0
how would you do it in a 3-way or 4-way tiebraker?
2020-05-09 13:15
0
2 replies
i follow LoL as well, they first separate according to map difference (actually match difference but if we're talking about csgo then map difference). the highest map difference goes against the winner of the ones with lower map difference. the winner qualifies for playoffs. It happened in the LCS just last month
2020-05-09 13:26
0
1 reply
#96
 | 
Czech Republic PaYaB
+1
2020-05-09 13:46
0
Nice, good article
2020-05-09 12:18
0
#32
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10  | 
 | 
Europe Asviix
*me searching for who tf asked*
2020-05-09 12:20
0
1 reply
#35
STYKO | 
Germany _PH1L
#33 :)
2020-05-09 12:23
0
#33
STYKO | 
Germany _PH1L
This were exactly my thoughts “this very early morning at 1 am before falling to sleep ... and I was about to open a Thread about this very topic and why I would rather see the Swiss format* *in bo3 with Elo based matchups
2020-05-09 12:23
0
#34
 | 
Germany ysN_
Just read the article, very well written.
2020-05-09 12:23
0
I don't know. If you don't want to rely on results of others, just try to win as much as possible. Yeah, if you play bad then at least you have hope others too. If this would be GSL, Mouz are out way earlier already. As a watcher, I am definitely enjoying the wider sample size round robin right now provides.
2020-05-09 12:24
0
4 replies
"just win" yeah super easy why didnt I think of that sooner? just win, simple.
2020-05-15 03:30
0
3 replies
Yeah, just win. In GSL nor Swiss you won’t go on with a negative score in matches. In Robin it may happen. So if you go out in Robin, even if some results of other teams didn’t go your way, you have noone to blame than yourself. Noone.
2020-05-15 06:41
0
2 replies
I hope you realize what your saying is dumb. if it so easy then win every game you play.
2020-05-15 11:05
0
1 reply
Looks like there is no discussion with you. I am pointing out on one of the main problems of Robin mentioned in the article: Your result is often depending on the results of others. I explained why that is overstated. You have a nice day, mate.
2020-05-15 11:52
0
#41
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Bulgaria zhelyazkoG
I wannder why they bring back round robbin format ? Because no LAN tournament ? But last year they talk about some teams burning out, because they attended for too many tournament. Now, again we have to much cs:go and after the virus they will put many LANs in bussy scedule. After a nearly a month ESL RIO, 2 days later , DreamHack and again almost 1 month.
2020-05-09 12:25
0
5 replies
#46
 | 
Sweden Lingon
The burnout wasn't the CSGO it was the flying etc also Road to Rio gives most teams 4 day's off with a bo3 3 days in a week
2020-05-09 12:34
0
2 replies
#60
 | 
Sweden Lingon
Also have to add Dreamhack are groups so 1 group is 3 days and then group 2 etc so teams will only compete 3 days until playoffs
2020-05-09 12:41
0
#119
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Bulgaria zhelyazkoG
About ESL Rio is event to make a points and distribution of teams. It's 1st event to make a points for MAJOR. Of how much more ? After that some teams are contenders, challengers or legends. And again , contenders play each other, 1st-4th teams will plays with challengers etc. For other opinion read reply for Scalpelexis.
2020-05-09 15:06
0
This is not busy, you can't compare this to last year or previous. Before you had LANS + online Pro League and ECS, some teams competed in all 3. You had to travel a lot and play often online CS during LAN tournaments. Now teams play 1 match per 2-3 days (some Tier 2 teams more online competitions, but that is their choice), they don't need to travel. How is that too much CS:GO?
2020-05-09 12:34
0
1 reply
#128
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Bulgaria zhelyazkoG
If we take ESL Pro league for example, it's almost the same. Previous format on SEason 10 , with double - elimination, even some team lost first game and fall to lower bracket, even make deep run, maximum matches are 8. Now 2 Group stages - overall if team "X" make deep run - 12 matches. And after one tournament finish JUST ONE-TWO DAYs OFF. Because it's online. Tournament after tournament. DreamHack Master EU the 3rd team of the group make to the playoffs, and make more matches. They trying to fill the hole of canceled tournament or tournament organizers who have not made an agreement . Elite teams will have a hole between ESL PRO LEAGUE and RIO MAJOR , i think. If wasn't the virus. BEcause they play MAIN QUALIFIER 1st of May maybe. BUt between 12th of April and May, What ?
2020-05-09 15:19
0
Round Robin is indeed pretty bad. Best format still good old GSL with upper and lower bracker, all Bo3
2020-05-09 12:27
0
3 replies
Swiss is better
2020-05-09 13:25
0
#97
 | 
Czech Republic PaYaB
Sure, but you can't do that with that many teams..
2020-05-09 13:47
0
1 reply
#150
 | 
Europe crittaN
You can, look at DH Malmö 2019 and such events
2020-05-09 15:58
0
#44
 | 
Iceland viggerey
You should write spoiler alert before revealing the results :D
2020-05-09 12:29
0
Nice article!
2020-05-09 12:30
0
tldr
2020-05-09 12:35
0
5 replies
#52
 | 
Sweden Lingon
Round robin is bad because other teams can change what happens to you Basic TLDR
2020-05-09 12:38
0
2 replies
ty swedish friend
2020-05-09 12:39
0
1 reply
#68
Faceit level 5  | 
Finland JHdash77
And also because there can and will end up being useless matches where corruption could take place
2020-05-09 12:58
0
#151
 | 
Europe crittaN
Read the article you illiterate fuck
2020-05-09 15:59
0
1 reply
ok boomer
2020-05-09 16:04
0
+1
2020-05-09 12:37
0
F u Robin 😡😡😡
2020-05-09 12:38
0
2 replies
Batman better
2020-05-09 16:31
0
yes robin is fat poop
2020-05-17 22:23
0
yes most likely astralis will win this not even entertaining I mean it's not the they don't deserve it it just gives other teams less motivation that it is already dictated what will happen
2020-05-09 12:39
0
1 reply
idk I think astralis will choke again like they always do. i love them but it's happened too much and I think it'll happen again can't wait for astralis vs faze tho if it happens
2020-05-09 13:31
0
#59
 | 
Australia B_Tannen
How much?
2020-05-09 12:40
0
#61
 | 
United Kingdom alcazar4
+1
2020-05-09 12:43
0
#62
 | 
Sweden skick4d
robiin format
2020-05-09 12:43
0
#63
Faceit level 10  | 
 | 
Romania decis1ve
"prioritize factors like map difference or worse, round difference." ???? hltv
2020-05-09 12:49
0
3 replies
#69
Faceit level 5  | 
Finland JHdash77
yeah? it's totally true
2020-05-09 12:59
0
2 replies
#70
Faceit level 10  | 
 | 
Romania decis1ve
lmaooo i am just blind. I was so sure i read round difference or worse round difference.
2020-05-09 13:00
0
1 reply
#71
Faceit level 5  | 
Finland JHdash77
:DDDDD
2020-05-09 13:00
0
#65
 | 
United Kingdom Jonty04l32
Very well made points, Striker. I like the classic bracket format devoid of all the points what all of the old Major-tournaments used ti have. Clean, fair and simple... You simply win or lose. I remember at one point defending the round-robin format due to it's points system but it was never perfect as you've elaborated. I think when it comes to points there is always a very large asterisk over the tournament itself as matches are being played, yet very few people will understand the format taking place.
2020-05-09 12:53
0
someone summarize it
2020-05-09 13:01
0
3 replies
#152
 | 
Europe crittaN
I thought chinese education was at least decent? Did you drop out?
2020-05-09 16:00
0
2 replies
swedish actually know how to spell english thats out of my calculation
2020-05-09 18:33
0
1 reply
#229
 | 
Europe crittaN
Ì was actually educated in Asia. :^) Did you read the article yet?
2020-05-09 18:36
0
^ please
2020-05-09 13:01
0
#74
 | 
Pakistan LoOuU2
This is probably in a long time that I enjoyed reading an article and agree with the issue being discussed too. Well structured , simple written and with notable examples, raising concern about the round robin format does seem to be something that the tournament organizers should think about. Number of rounds won or lost shouldn't ever matter. GJ senor Striker.
2020-05-09 13:02
0
#75
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
kioShiMa | 
Sweden changrai
Wow hltv isnt biased :O
2020-05-09 13:09
0
+1
2020-05-09 13:13
0
nt mouz fan
2020-05-09 13:14
0
2 replies
#99
STYKO | 
Germany _PH1L
Doesn’t dismiss the problem of robin at hand
2020-05-09 13:50
0
1 reply
Yeah, that's true, g2 was also eliminated in similar fashion in previous tournament.
2020-05-09 14:28
0
#80
 | 
France MarcoXY
Imao true
2020-05-09 13:16
0
#82
b1t | 
United States hoobit
Good article
2020-05-09 13:22
0
Nice article, I agree with everything. Swiss format is by far the best.
2020-05-09 13:22
0
#87
 | 
Australia jonyling
An extremely good article, not one we asked for but the one we deserved. Hopefully it sparks a discussion of future tournament formats amongst TOs, and whether or not round-robin formats give an accurate representation of skill when ranking teams (e.g. tournaments in Swiss format are weighted more than round-robin tournaments)
2020-05-09 13:27
0
1 reply
#130
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
You must be joking. You consider a swiss format a better representation of skill? Getting a favorable opponent in a matchup-draw is skill? Man, even HLTV users cant be this stupid.
2020-05-09 15:22
0
Round robin bad GSL good
2020-05-09 13:30
0
2 replies
#153
 | 
Europe crittaN
GSL good but JW best
2020-05-09 16:01
0
1 reply
true men))
2020-05-10 02:50
0
Swiss is the best format for viewers. Maybe not the best for teams though, but surely better than RR.
2020-05-09 13:37
0
I really like the round robin format being played in RtR - all meet each other on even terms and where it is NOT up to predetermined seedings who faces who, such giving the higher seeds an easier road through the brackets - or even worse by random draw. So I think the article is bias af and it's not going in debth to the flaws of the other types of tournaments "Unacceptable flaws" - that's your opinion - not a fact.
2020-05-09 13:44
0
6 replies
#95
 | 
Europe Theivze
Round robins only work when many matches r played like in mdl, but when used for only 3 - 6 matches it becomes unfair.
2020-05-09 13:47
0
4 replies
#129
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
How is that unfair? Please explain. In the simplest of cases: 2 team round robin -> 1 match. is that so unfair, that the winner is considered the better team of the 2?
2020-05-09 15:20
0
3 replies
#232
 | 
Europe Theivze
Did u read the article. When only a small number of matches r played, the chances of getting a tie r pretty likely. Then it's going to be unfair.
2020-05-09 18:59
0
2 replies
#237
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
The scale of unfairness is also important, but you have to remember: Swiss and GSL are by deafult unfair. So basically your argument is, that mixing all of your meals with 10% shit is better, than having a chance of 10% to be forced to eat a shit meal midst of normal meals.
2020-05-09 19:18
0
1 reply
#242
 | 
Europe Theivze
Swiss and gsl cancel out some of that unfairness by giving teams a second chance. Btw that was a weird analogy
2020-05-09 19:32
0
The major challenge stage format is better, where teams do their own seedings.
2020-05-09 16:37
0
#92
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Denmark MeyZ /HZ/
Every other sport / esport in the world: Let's make the rules like this CS:GO: tHiS iS tHE StUPiDEst FoRMaT To ExCIst
2020-05-09 13:42
0
Round robin is bed , swiss system gud
2020-05-09 13:44
0
good article
2020-05-09 13:45
0
#100
 | 
Czech Republic PaYaB
Great article mr. Striker
2020-05-09 13:52
0
#101
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil pedroucb
Good article
2020-05-09 13:53
0
#102
 | 
France unnn
Very good and interesting article
2020-05-09 13:54
0
Great article
2020-05-09 13:54
0
#105
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Mopsim | 
Poland Mopsim995
im not sure what is worse, the article or the fact that hlvt community agree with it in every other sports it works and nobody have any issue with it. for example if team A wins 2:0 against team C and Team B wins 2:1 against team C, theoretically speaking team A > Team B. Also in every other sport there matches played with no stake. Swiss format has a lot of flaws, the most important one is randomizing matches, for example look at Dreameaters at starladder major berlin. They went 0-3 but all they matches were against teams who advance further, to comparison look at the vitality, they went 3-1 but winning only against teams who didnt advance.
2020-05-09 13:58
0
4 replies
Why did Vitality only face low-tier teams? Because those low-tier teams were able to advance by winning against better teams. If better teams were not losing to underdogs, then that would not have happened. And, in order to lessen the amount of underdogs surprising bigger teams, they can make a swiss system with BO3. Because a low tier team will be unlikely to beat Astralis in a BO3 on LAN
2020-05-09 16:04
0
3 replies
#166
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Mopsim | 
Poland Mopsim995
well, the berlin major swiss system was bo3 but the point is not that vitality played against underdogs ( they played against mouse, faze and north so definetly not undergos) the point is they played against teams who didnt advance further so it was basically easier for them
2020-05-09 16:30
0
2 replies
#240
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
Your proof is spoiled by the fact, that Vitality gave 3 teams a loss, while Dreameaters "gave" their opponents a win. So if you run the simulation with those 3 teams having 1-0 and the other three 0-1 at the start, it is ofc more likely, that the teams with 1-0 will advance.
2020-05-09 19:24
0
1 reply
#241
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Mopsim | 
Poland Mopsim995
agree, but first match of dreameaters was against astralis (the winners of whole tournament) while first match of vitality was against north
2020-05-09 19:30
0
Round Robin is terrible for Counterstrike. The smaller the group the worst. For obvious reason the round difference is terrible decider to begin with but IMO it's wrong when it comes to OTs: a 16-14 victory should be better than a 19-15 one.
2020-05-09 14:10
0
2 replies
#126
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
Yea, that one is flawed. At least they should make it so the winner of OT gets the mapwin with 0 round difference.
2020-05-09 15:17
0
what if a win gets 3 points, while a win by OT only gets 2 points?
2020-05-10 00:31
0
I just now noticed that its been long time since i saw swiss
2020-05-09 14:14
0
1 reply
Anyway, how much?
2020-05-09 14:14
0
I agree that tiebreaker rules are bad and should be solved by a rematch, however the idea that it violates competitive integrity is bad. In the last case Cloud9 WAS the better team at that event until the very last game. It wouldn't make sense for Astralis to throw.
2020-05-09 14:26
0
Don't agree. 2x0 > 2x1 no matter rounds/overtime.
2020-05-09 14:29
0
more matches the happier bookies are
2020-05-09 14:40
0
#114
 | 
Germany DiegoHu
I don’t get the point at all! What’s more fair than: Play against every team once and therefore be fully responsible for the outcome. If you don’t care about map veto for a quick 2:0? Than it’s your fault - not fault of the system itself. If there is a meaningless match at the end? It’s your fault ... because you lost too many matches already (despite the fact that the mentioned game isn’t even meaningless because of RMR)! If you play GSL tournament you can just be unlucky and lose two matches against tough opponents and tournament is over - that’s much more random from my point of view! Overall: I like both kind of tournaments and there are different pro and cons! But to say: round of robin is less fair seems not right at all for me 🤷‍♂️
2020-05-09 14:40
0
1 reply
#125
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
+1 Teams know the rules, the tiebraker conditions. They are responsible to optimise their aproach considering those. Its not like ESL made up rules overnight to fuck with Na'Vi in S11.
2020-05-09 15:12
0
tldr the actual problem is with the tiebreakers not with the round robin format, just plan in some time for tiebreakers matches and remove all the lame tiebreaker decision rules based on rounds won/lost etc
2020-05-09 14:43
0
#118
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Australia njoi
Very well written and compelling article. Great work
2020-05-09 15:01
0
#120
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Australia Beard43
I think round robin is by far the most fair format and it's been great to see it back in full swing. Each team plays each other once in a Bo3. No unfair/lucky draws, no seeding to give higher ranked teams an easier time of it. Just a Bo3 vs every team in the group and RtR even has RMR and money up for grabs in the 'meaningless' games which still count for reputation and experience anyway. It's also nice that you included an example with Astralis of exactly how it doesn't actually cause corruption too, thanks for that :-)
2020-05-09 15:08
0
5 replies
#154
 | 
Europe crittaN
But its clear it COULD cause corruption. Surely you agree?
2020-05-09 16:03
0
4 replies
#265
 | 
Australia Beard43
No I don't agree.
2020-05-10 11:34
0
3 replies
#271
 | 
Europe crittaN
Then having a discussion with you is pointless.
2020-05-10 15:27
0
2 replies
#272
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Australia Beard43
Righto, because god forbid you have a discussion with someone who disagrees with you.
2020-05-10 15:33
0
1 reply
#273
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Europe crittaN
What is there to discuss if you cant even acknowledge a POTENTIAL cause for concern in the RR format? It would be like I was speaking to a wall with the word ”NO.” written on it.
2020-05-10 15:39
0
#121
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Hungary pedaz
I am shocked how many people say this is a good article, eventhough it fails to make a solid argument against round robin except that the writer doesnt like that certain teams fell out. The rules are clearly set before the tournament, so this whole paragraph is pointless: "Teams simply don't operate under the assumption that they can't afford to lose a certain number of maps or rounds. They don't plan vetoes to have...." With a more generic example, the writer basically states, that Formula1 point system is bad, because teams fuck around in early races more, not valuing single points as much, eventhough later these can decide the championship.....Worst argument ever. You could argue, that RR is boring, but in determining who gets to move forward to the next phase of a competition, it is the absolute best. Just remember how Immortals-Gambit was a major final mostly thanks to the "exceptional" swiss system. You try to "reinvent the wheel" in 2020, because certain teams fell out, who BY THE RULES performed worse, than the others, who they were tied with.
2020-05-09 15:09
0
Can we get a matching article about the flaws in the Swiss system?
2020-05-09 15:18
0
#135
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Italy NotNew
"Although it was close, the Danes ended up winning the match 16-14 and beating Danylo "Zeus" Teslenko's team in the final, avoiding any scrutiny coming their way, but imagine yourself in their shoes. It would be seriously tempting to consider losing the match — or not trying your hardest at the very least —, wouldn't it?" No
2020-05-09 15:32
0
8 replies
#198
Per0N | 
Venezuela 643
Yeah, it would. Imagine this situation on a Major. Don't pretend people won't do these things to win.
2020-05-09 17:46
0
7 replies
#203
 | 
Italy NotNew
I have to imagine myself in their shoes, right? Astralis was the best team at the time so navi or cloud9 wouldn't have made much difference, everyone was spamming "they will surely throw the match" and they didn't
2020-05-09 17:57
0
6 replies
#215
Per0N | 
Venezuela 643
The exemple Striker gave was just to point out the absurdity of this system. Imagine the same situation except Astralis may chose between facing Gen G (no offense) or Navi. All they have to do is lose vs GenG. What do you think they would do in a Major?
2020-05-09 18:13
0
5 replies
#217
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Italy NotNew
The same thing, because a team that is supposed to win the major doesn't care about such things, you will obviously disagree and call me naive, but I see these things happen all the time in sports, where the stakes are much higher.
2020-05-09 18:16
0
4 replies
#219
Per0N | 
Venezuela 643
Yeah, I do think you're naive, but I'm not even saying I would lose on purpose. My point is that I think most of the teams would prefer losing a meaningless match in order to win a Major than being 2nd place cause you tried to do "the right thing".
2020-05-09 18:20
0
3 replies
#222
 | 
Italy NotNew
If winning or losing that match would give you a higher or lower chance to win the whole tournament, yes, everyone would do that, but since it has no real impact on the final success then it's specious to argue that everyone would do that. For example I could want to face a tougher opponent that I beat many times, that I can read well rather than a weaker and unpredictable opponent that I never faced before
2020-05-09 18:24
0
2 replies
#231
Per0N | 
Venezuela 643
True, but you do realise that discussing these scenarions prove this is a shitty format, right?
2020-05-09 18:55
0
1 reply
#238
 | 
Italy NotNew
It's not perfect, but neither is swiss. I would probably prefer bo3 GSL
2020-05-09 19:20
0
Perfect example is on right now on RtR CIS group B. All teams at 2 wins 2 losses
2020-05-09 15:49
0
3 replies
Maybe those teams should have tried not losing twice
2020-05-09 15:56
0
2 replies
+ fckn 1
2020-05-09 17:29
0
that doesnt matter at all. what matters is that we cant objectively decide which team should be eliminated when tie breakers occur.
2020-05-09 18:09
0
#147
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Spain hzeros
+99999 " It is ridiculous to try to objectively decide whether a 2-1 series in which the map scores went 16-3, 14-16, 16-5 was a better result than a 2-0 series where a team won both maps in overtimes, so don't. It shouldn't matter. The win is all that matters."
2020-05-09 15:56
0
#158
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France wiljeeM
<3
2020-05-09 16:09
0
finally good fucking article.
2020-05-09 16:19
0
I dont know how this controversial post gains so many opinions “for” it. Round robin IS the best format amongst the available and SHOULD be used for future events. 1 - the post is extremely one-sided, briefly mentioning RB’ advantages but deeply discussed its “flaws” 2 - the point regarding team’s fate being out of their hands due to lack of winning rounds or maps: this is a sport, if you dont wanna end up in that situations then try to fuckin win all possible maps or round. If you cant, you can’t blame the already announced rules. Because you cant, you are then compared to other similar teams, and those “unrelated” metrics now count. MU lost an EPL title worth £100+ mil to MC on goal differences, and i dont see them complaining they simply concentrated on winnings, not scoring the most goals etc. It’s gg, we tried but not enough, good luck next time. 3- the third point regarding meaningless matches: how the f is this point even made? If you do not wanna play these meaningless matches, then why dont u win them all maybe? Every year, there are dozens of meaningless matches play in Champions League/national leagues, it is sportmanship that requires you to try your best and win, you cant blame the lack of meaning of those matches to intentionally throw them. Moral dilemma happens in every job, you cant always blame external factors and the system in every bad decisions you make. P/s: if astra decided to throw vs C9, that’s their reward for winning the first 4 matches, it’s entirely their strategy and winning playbook to decide which team they’d rather face. Again, if navi do not wanna end up in that situation, why the f simple and co didnt win it all earlier?
2020-05-09 16:20
0
1 reply
#266
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Australia Beard43
+1 this is a very good response.
2020-05-10 11:50
0
They should use the same system that they use on the challenge stage of the major, much bettter for the audience and for the teams.
2020-05-09 16:29
0
Thank you HLTV for expanding and remaking the old article
2020-05-09 16:33
0
why mibr american flag tho?
2020-05-09 16:43
0
1 reply
#195
ZywOo | 
Brazil rneX
+1
2020-05-09 17:41
0
#176
 | 
Brazil skahaza
this happens in all sports, teams always need to try to get the best results sothey don't have to depend on other teams, I can't understand why csgo should be any different
2020-05-09 16:45
0
2 replies
because cs is different from sports. If we decide a tie breaker based on rounds, then for example a team can have a huge advantage ovet another, because they started ct side nuke and the other t side. The side youre starting on should not affect if youre going through or not. In other sports you dont have this problem
2020-05-09 18:07
0
1 reply
#251
 | 
Brazil skahaza
well, in other sports you play in hostile grounds, you go to different stadiums and face extreme pressure. In CSGO it's just the side you start in. cs is a game just like any other and I don't think this actually should be discussed.
2020-05-09 21:45
0
#178
akez | 
Finland 0lter
agreed
2020-05-09 16:52
0
wait, this site is still used to publish actual articles? good read!
2020-05-09 16:57
0
Easy fix against strategic throwing/match fixing in the context of road to rio-like qualifiers: Make every win count for points too, not just placement
2020-05-09 16:57
0
finally a good article from hltv. gj striker
2020-05-09 17:01
0
Very interesting article!
2020-05-09 17:25
0
I seem to be the only one thinking that Swiss System isn’t perfect and has many flaws. For me Round Robin is simply better to get the better teams in the playoffs, no wonder why it’s used in team sports.
2020-05-09 17:28
0
3 replies
#193
 | 
Italy NotNew
No I agree with you and funnily enough everyone was shitting on the swiss system before, even pro players
2020-05-09 17:31
0
Swiss System used in major is just another type of triple-elimation system, that dont go to full end but only stops when top 8 is decided.
2020-05-10 00:42
0
#267
 | 
Australia Beard43
The Swisse system is heavily flawed, you're not alone there. Round robin is as fair as it can get, it's the best at rewarding consistent strong performance and preventing flukes.
2020-05-10 11:58
0
Now this is a good article! It shows every concern that we CS:GO viewers have when watching our favourite teams falter in a match that theoretically they should've won, or failing to qualify to the next stage just because of minor differences.
2020-05-09 17:45
0
I guess the bigger issue here are the tiebreakers and not the format itself
2020-05-09 17:48
0
peepoThink
2020-05-09 17:53
0
good article, cheers
2020-05-09 18:00
0
#205
 | 
Brazil 1930
what a rush of good arguments into my day
2020-05-09 18:00
0
Finally!!
2020-05-09 18:00
0
Great article
2020-05-09 18:02
0
#212
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Portugal dascouves
Swiss and GSL format are indeed much better. Maybe orgs and players should talk to the organizers in the next tournaments to try and change it.
2020-05-09 18:10
0
I can get a bit of what he is saying, but that is taking things way out of proportion. Let's just look at other sports that have been going on for decades. Soccer, runs the same group stages round robin type of deal, rugby, cricket, and so so so many more. I can use those exact same arguments for those aswell, like in soccer they have the same system for the breakers, and I don't see a problem with it. They are also planning to win a game, not planning to win with the biggest point diff? I do thing Swiss is an amazing format for a Major. But for an even like this with so many new teams, and the whole point of this even being trying to find out who is in form at the moment, what other way to do it, than just putting everyone against everyone? In the Swiss format, you could have had current NIP vs Astralis, one of them would loose, then let's say fnatic loose too. Then fnatic vs looser of Nip and Astralis, then after that let's say heritics at the bottom, vs the looser of Nip and fnatic. One of the top 3 teams in the current group would have been eliminated due to plain bad luck. Next, you have a chance of teams who are shit getting through by only versing other shit teams, what about that? Next is Round Robin gives the chances for teams who would never get a shot at being teams like Astralis match with them. For example Dig vs Astralis, or Dig vs Fnatic, it also allows for teams like Copenhagen Flames to show us they are able to put up a fight now. Things we just were not seeing with other tournament structors. With the round robin we have seen smaller, their 3 teams shine, and clime up, raising the amount of competition. That is always good, it's no longer 1 team who is invited to a semi finals, and skips everyone else on the top. It's now everyone getting a shot, and if it comes down to a tie breaker, I would rather that over these teams never being able to get that chance of proving how good they now really are
2020-05-09 18:11
0
#216
Faceit level 7 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Portugal dracø
Don't think anyone can argue with this
2020-05-09 18:13
0
2 replies
I can, Round Robin is clearly the best format.
2020-05-09 19:51
0
1 reply
#268
 | 
Australia Beard43
+1
2020-05-10 12:00
0
#220
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
REAL | 
Spain deBurrows
Well said, Striker.
2020-05-09 18:23
0
"They don't plan vetoes to have the best chance of winning 2-0, they structure them to have the best chance of winning the series, and they aren't thinking about how many more rounds they can afford to lose during a map beyond stopping the other team from reaching 16." hmmmmm You have better chance of winning the series and have a better round diff if you go for 2-0 There is no logic. The only problem with this system is garbage games (last ones) when team are already eliminated or qualifyed. Which rig standings/tie-brakers like in many sports.
2020-05-09 18:31
0
#230
 | 
United States festivve
nice article
2020-05-09 18:40
0
#235
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
France StickyRice
Swiss system BO3 > Round Robin BO3 > GSL BO3 >> Swiss system BO1 > RR BO1 > GSLUL BO1
2020-05-09 19:15
0
1 reply
#236
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
France StickyRice
(i wanted to say what i think is best for the game, personally i like Round Robin a lot, it only sucks when teams are already out/qualified before the last game but at least teams play every opponent)
2020-05-09 19:17
0
I didn't read the entire article but I have to say that I agree. Batman movies with Robin are bad af.
2020-05-09 19:22
0
Great article
2020-05-09 19:44
0
#245
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Russia razorVJ
Yeah those tiebreakers when you get fucked just because you lost a couple more rounds are simply stupid. Anyone who played CS a little bit knows that round difference doesn't mean shit. It is ridiculous that round robin is still being used and these tiebreakers are still in place. In early 2000s some tournaments (I think CPL was one of them) did use full replay to break ties, which I believe is the only valid option to handle this.
2020-05-09 19:54
0
FaZe 3 loses kkkkkkk Cloud9 3 wins kkkkkkkkk
2020-05-09 19:58
0
"This essentially creates a showmatch-like environment in which neither side cares about the result, leading to bad Counter-Strike being played at best and at worst producing a sketchy habitat that is more likely to be fixed for betting earnings. If one side does have something to play for while the other doesn't, there's even more potential for the result to be manipulated, as there is a competitive advantage at stake. And it gets even worse when a team has the power to decide whom they will meet in the next stage of the tournament based on the outcome of a match they're about to play." I mean this happens in every sport, basically. I dont like robin format much but is the best possible solution considering the current situation.
2020-05-09 20:33
0
Round Robin exists for other sports, or tournaments that are too big to give a fuck, double round robin fixes part of the issue by giving a rematch, thus more games, thus randomness goes down a little. All n all it is a flawed system for CSGO and should never be used.
2020-05-09 21:16
0
next level idiot writing this. talking about maxing broadcast hours when all the rtr matches were played at the same time.
2020-05-09 23:06
0
I think that the paragraph complaining about map difference is on the more famous and higher tier team point of view. If you stand on the lower tier teams, they also want to have their chance to get a map win from the higher tier teams which can help their rankings. As stronger team, 2-0 win is showing dominance on map pool. I would say it is a fair rule, if they cannot arrange tiebreaker games like dota2.
2020-05-09 23:12
0
not even need to talk about. football leagues have even more matches at the end of a season that one or both sides have nothing to play for. "there's even more potential for the result to be manipulated?" then any system but single-elimination would fit you. in any match, both sides have EVERYTHING to play for: win, or eliminated from the tournament.
2020-05-09 23:58
0
not even need to talk about. football leagues have even more matches at the end of a season that one or both sides have nothing to play for. "there's even more potential for the result to be manipulated?" then no system but single-elimination would fit you. in any match, both sides have EVERYTHING to play for: win, or eliminated from the tournament. and you think "They don't plan vetoes to have the best chance of winning 2-0" is correct? can i say that "a system that has no punishment for 2-1 would definitely call out manipulation to lose a map for money"? remember: a system is made for picking out the best team or teams, not for anti-corruption. any tournament system is made on assumption that every participants would try their best to win, and the stronger ones would be statistically stable to have more chance to win against weak ones. NO format can rule out match-fixing, ANY match in ANY system can be fixed as long as they can get enough money (more than the gold medal prize money). what you need is law enforcement and anti-launder system rather than invention of new tournament format.
2020-05-10 00:20
0
7 replies
the issue with this thing is a lot of useless matches less pressure in a lot of instances which means less competitive matches now almost only the major is knockout system
2020-05-10 17:40
0
6 replies
if a system is only for picking out the 1st team then single-elimination is enough. however RtR is to have a full ranking from 1 to 16 and award them points for major qualification.
2020-05-10 17:51
0
5 replies
you have a point here mens I was talking in general
2020-05-10 18:22
0
4 replies
well, i think thats maybe the difference between esports and sports. in csgo and most esports events, the only thing we audience care about is who is the best, and other participants are treated as dead bodies. thats why the winner of major gets 50% of all prize money, and the final match itself is worth 35% of prizepool. it seems like some ancient colosseum games. who the f*ck care if you die in the first match or last match, you are dead anyway. winner takes all, #2 and #16 are both LOSERS. however traditional sports admit the difference between #2 and #16. even if you can never go to the top, to achieve one more step up is something worth awarding. look at champions league, they also decide the title with single elimination bracket. however, the final match (single way) is worth only 4 million euros, plus a ticket for UEFA super cup (worth 5.5 million). the semifinal (double way) is worth 15 million, also a fair high prize money. if you win all matches and top the europe, you can only get 82.5 euros, only 7.6% of all prizepool (only counts for competitive prize money, not for market).
2020-05-10 19:29
0
3 replies
mens there's a fact that you are missing CS has tons of tier1 events per year with very close prize pools to the major this fact makes it obvious that you should give the winner the biggest piece of the cake and always search for him each event. You would find some teams playing 7-8 series per year where in football they get like 1 per 4-5 years (if they are different countries) and 2 every year in national league and let's say an average of 1 more match for top teams (meeting in national cups and shit or maybe UCL) Btw the second guy in cs gets a reasonable amount so he isn't that dead as you are saying. IMO it's ok this way, I would just remove the brackets from playoffs and make it single elimination. A bracket system would be very cool in football (UCL), but it's super hard to apply because there won't be a place for more matches in teams calendars
2020-05-10 19:42
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2 replies
you may say this apply to football when all clubs take part in only up to 3 tournaments per year, but what about tennis? there are 4 Grand Slams and 9 ATP Masters (and more ATP500/ATP250 tournament) every year, and they use single elimination system. however the prize money structure is not twisted like esports. taking the most expensive masters level tournament (shanghai masters) for example, 64 attendants for men's single, the total prize money is 5,646,755 dollars, while the winner takes 1,360,560 dollars, only 24% in total prize pool.
2020-05-10 22:57
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1 reply
I am saying that I want single elimination in esports just like tennis. The football example of prize share is highly affected by the low number of competitions. I just wanted to remind you about that fact. No idea about tennis and prize stuff.
2020-05-10 23:19
0
the only bad thing for round robin, is that it needs WAY MORE matches than knockout system. in fact if not for time table problem, we can simply put all 16 teams straight into a round robin, and we can get a fair rank from #1 to #16, awarded by different RtR points. you would have way less chance that "a team has the power to decide who can advance into next stage" because there is just no next stage.
2020-05-10 00:39
0
Striker with another braindead article. The level on hltv employees are extremely low. The ranking system is a reflection of that.
2020-05-10 13:11
0
there's no need for all that shit even simply, teams can just throw matches because they like some other team or they are tired or alraedy qualified bestest format groups of 4 + double elimination playoffs: knockout (no upper/lower bracket shit) it just puts less pressure always than the knockout
2020-05-10 17:37
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1 reply
#285
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
France StickyRice
Group of 4 (aka GSL) is just terrible. In BO3 it pretty much goes : best team beats weakest (lowest seed) team of the group 2nd vs 3st might be interesting but whoever wins often loses to 1st seed in winners game, whoever loses still beats 4th seed in losers game and decider is a rematch between 2nd and 3st seed most of the time. WORST format by far
2020-05-12 16:42
0
#284
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
France StickyRice
Round Robin is still much better than super boring GSL
2020-05-12 16:39
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