B1ad3: "If we win this one, it can be too much confidence for us"

The Ukrainian tactician is careful about overconfidence affecting his squad ahead of the RMR.

Natus Vincere are the current No. 1 team in the world after appearing in six back-to-back grand finals, winning three of them, including their latest one at IEM Rio.

Andrey "⁠B1ad3⁠" Gorodenskiy has been a massive component of their rise, as his tactical mind helped Natus Vincere create a structure that allowed them to become the most consistent team in the scene.

"IGLs, at least in my system, are not the crucial part in terms of calling," B1ad3 described his system. "In my vision, it's not possible to have enough time to discuss something in rounds. So players must have, most of the time, their own ideas of what to do."

Ahead of their next outing at the BLAST World Final, B1ad3 spoke to HLTV about Natus Vincere's consistency, the future of the IGL role, and Falcons' recent addition of Oleksandr "⁠s1mple⁠" Kostyliev.

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You enter this tournament after a very busy period with a lot of back-to-back tournaments. In Rio, even jL joked a little bit about how players were a little bit tired of each other because they had been together for such a long period. With this in mind, did you use the time between Rio and this event to get some rest?

Yes, we always use this kind of rest time if we have the option. Ideally, it's always six days after the tournament. If we have this opportunity, we always use it, and then we balance it. If we see that there is not enough practice, we will take fewer days off and do a little bit more practice. This time, we needed a lot, because it was like three tournaments in a row. Between BLAST and Rio, we had maybe two or three days at home. We used some days off, and I wish we could have more time for prep.

What can you say about the preparation for the event? You said you wish you had more time to prep. Was it just online practice or did you have a small bootcamp before this one?

No, no bootcamp, only online. Especially because the RMR is on the horizon, and there is a huge chance that we will stay there for more time, so it can be a lot of time in one hotel in an unordinary country for Europeans. It can be tough. So, we decided to not do a bootcamp, but I think we will have a bootcamp before the RMR. We will have some days at home, maybe two, and then straight to bootcamp. It depends on how we do in this tournament.

How are you looking at this event? Are you taking more of a relaxed approach? Because for some teams the issue is not getting burned out just before the Major and the RMR, which will be in China. What is your approach to this tournament?

We never have any kind of relaxed mode in any tournament. At least it's not what we speak about, how we try to change or tune our mindset. This tournament will be the same as all others, except for the fact that we maybe didn't have enough preparation. The only thing we need to focus on is not to concentrate too much on the streak of finals, that's the most important part.

It is clear that NAVI have been the number one team in the world, even though you had a lot of ups and downs in the first half of the season. Why do you think other teams haven't been able to find the sort of consistency that you've been able to in the past couple of months?

I'm actually a little bit surprised that Vitality and G2 didn't find any stability. It means that something doesn't work in their camp, their office, let's say. But I don't know what, because it's all behind the curtain, I can only speak about us. I think we just try to focus a lot on sticking to a system, improving the system, correcting a little bit all the time, and just focusing on playing with the best quality we can. We have this conversation constantly after each game, to have a routine and a real process.

Back in Dallas, during a very low point of the season for you, you said that if things didn't improve, there would have to be changes. Looking back, are you surprised with the way that the team bounced back and that you've been able to have these grand final streaks and all these tournament titles in the past couple of months?

Yes, a huge result, obviously. We also had London before as a good, positive sign. We didn't think that we would be here with six finals in a row after London and Riyadh, it's kind of extraordinary on some scale. If you would look at the competitive scene at the beginning of the season, even in January or after the summer break, it was still the same amount of potential in the scene, the same amount of competitiveness and talent, like raw talent.

Teams were getting better and better, many other new teams were created. The scene is constantly improving and changing, and it's getting bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger, which means it will be more difficult with each tournament. Also, there is a tendency that everyone is studying the team at the top, and that's why it will be even more difficult. Considering all these factors, for me, it's a huge achievement and very extraordinary.

You've said many times just how important it is for the team to have long bootcamps before big tournaments. What sort of plan did you come up with to make sure that you are going to be in top shape for the RMRs and the Major? For example, Liquid are staying here in Asia, which is a very risky decision. What is it like for you before the Major?

I think staying in Asia is quite risky. We want to prioritize our mental state. With this lineup, I'm always trying to balance the schedule, to see people's relative gaps to rest, to reset, and to be mentally stable and hungry enough to have enthusiasm in the game. I think it's crucial, especially in the tier-one scene, when you play semifinals and finals.

For us, bootcamps are crucial. For me, it's very comfortable, because I know how it works, and I know every step. I know how much time we usually need before the tournament to balance all the maps, how to balance and structure all the days, and how we can grow day by day to have enough time to change something if we see some huge problems during the bootcamp. It's also comfortable because it's not the first one. You're doing maybe 12, or maybe even more, and you're constantly tracking, analyzing each one, and you know that for the system, bootcamps are very important because we're building our strategy, synergy, communication, and everything else.

It's more comfortable for me to control the progress of the team. When we're constantly at tournaments and online, especially in the finals, when you don't have enough days off or even days to practice, it is quite challenging. You need to find specific moments, real chances to analyze the meta and add things meta-wise to your strat book, so it will also not be hostile to the system, or not comfortable for players to do, because you cannot add any style you want.

It was a very limited time gap, where we needed to analyze what is happening with the other teams, what is happening in terms of really cool gimmicks, meta-wise changes, and add it to our system and strat book. We also needed to analyze our mistakes and fix them, because our system relies or depends a lot on fixing our mistakes. Sometimes we discuss even more about the problems and not what we should add, just what didn't work, and that's why these three tournaments were really hard for us. The schedule is very tight, that's true.

I can say the best bootcamp we had for sure was before Copenhagen Major. It was perfect, it was full, how it should be. Since then, we only had one before Riyadh for five days, not the length we really wanted. Even now before the RMR, if we were in Group B, it would be amazing, it would be perfect. But we are not, so we will have maybe seven days of bootcamp, it's not bad. We still will try to optimize everything and squeeze as much as possible. I think it will be enough to reset, but I don't know what would be better. To lose this tournament and be hungrier before bootcamp, or maybe it's better to win and be more confident, but I think if we win this one, it can be too much confidence for us.

We can be overconfident before getting into the best-of-ones at the RMR, but we always work on this to stay realistic and not be delusional, because we know that the scene is very competitive and you can lose to anyone. Usually, when we speak about this, it's not like we are just saying this, we are really focusing. It's a very fragile situation, [and we need to] keep working, keep trying. It doesn't mean that we are unbeatable. These things are really important nowadays.

You are going to face Astralis in your first matchup, you destroyed them in Cologne and they have not won a series yet with cadiaN. Do you think that this is a good matchup for you to get warmed up for the rest of the tournament? Are you confident?

Let's say that out of all the teams, I think this one will not be as difficult as the others, that's for sure. This is I think an objective opinion because they have a new line-up, and they are also experimenting or implementing a new system. If you read their interviews, like device, talking about one thing, cadiaN other things, so they need to find the ground beneath them, and to feel it very firmly.

I don't know, maybe they already found it, and they are standing very still and firm, but maybe not, and from what we saw before, for sure it's not the same danger as Liquid or Spirit for example. The scene is very very strong, and when any of the teams that are in this tournament lose, they are very hungry for the next tournament. If they lose one more time, they are even hungrier, so it's like they're gaining mana constantly.

I want to ask you a little bit about s1mple. He just came back, he's now playing for Falcons. What do you think about his choice of team, because you said that maybe he needed to take a step back and play for a tier-two team to get his form back? With that in mind, do you think that Falcons is the right team for him at this stage in his career?

It depends on what his choices were. I'm not sure there were any other choices, maybe there was one more team other than Falcons, but obviously, Falcons has a lot of money, and I think it's a huge factor, It's all about the perspective of Sasha [s1mple], it's all about his values, his vision of his future, progress, and his comeback. For sure, he has his own strategy, it doesn't mean it's good or bad, It means it's his own, so it's very hard to say from outside the process. But it's not bad, for sure it's a very very decent opportunity to come back into tier-one, he has the most respectable and winning coach, he has a very experienced IGL, and Magisk is a solid player, always stable, for sure like a tier-one anchor.

dupreeh has huge experience, a five-time Major winner. Maden is a player who has shown some good results. He's also trying to find some ground, and his potential for sure was not reached, but with these pieces it's possible to build something, it's just about a good approach. I think they have a lot of pressure, and with this pressure, it's really hard to play. I wouldn't like to be in their position, because I think the amount of investment creates this pressure. Imagine the same lineup but with a different budget, I think it's all about this because people understand what kind of money they can get back.

Have you seen any of his games for Falcons?

Yes, I didn't see any from the beginning to the end, because we had practice and we also needed time to rest, but I was watching some rounds. There were different games, one was online, and two were on LAN. It was rough. I think there were a lot of mistakes, somebody also said in the interview that they aren't good enough as a team yet. We need to understand that nowadays that is the most important thing. I can even say that I think we are winning because of this, because we are good as a team, and if we are showing stable results, it for sure proves to you that this is a meta factor nowadays.

You can see that, for example, teams like Vitality hugely rely on ZywOo, Spirit hugely rely on donk, and G2 on NiKo. For you, you don't have a clear star player, and you function well as a team.

Yes, and I really think that it's not the future of Counter-Strike in my opinion, because it's really hard to build a game around star players. You must build something around the team, you must try to have a goal, or the team must adapt and sacrifice more to play for one player. It's not so good to rely on one player. If he's not good, it's not a good strategy.

Having a strong group of five players who are trying to execute ideas on the same page is for sure more complex, more stable, and more efficient. In the same priority of roles, nobody is trying to be the best in the round, so it's all about you having an idea in the round. In this round, for example, this player must be the main factor, he must be a playmaker, and it's not always Mihai [iM], for example. It's not always like this, it can be on another side, it can be some idea where lurkers will try to pop up at some point.

So Falcons are not good as a team, in my opinion, and at the same time, I think it's not so easy to fix. About the idea of how to fix this, it would be another answer for like 5-10 minutes, because it's very, very difficult. We always speak about this, people come from different backgrounds, with different knowledge on how to have the same reactions, all this stuff. You can see teams like Eternal Fire sometimes have decent success, I think also because they are playing as a team. I think why, for example, SAW played well in Cologne, also because they showed some good dynamics during the tournament as a team. Nowadays, if teams want to be really good, they need to focus on this.

One of the biggest talking points in recent months following your success as a team is whether zonic is still the greatest coach of all time or whether you deserve to be in that conversation. How do you look at that? Where do you think you stand in the conversation in terms of the greatest coach of all time?

I actually don't think about this. When I try to, I understand there is no point, because if you win three Majors in a row and five overall, it's a phenomenal result. So no matter what I do, until I have the same, it's very subjective. It's very subjective to put myself somewhere in a good position. So I immediately stop thinking about it, because I'm just focusing a lot on the process. And I also ask the team to do the same, constantly think about the process, not about the result.

We recently did an interview with npl, who's now doing really well with B8. Did you think that he would be playing this well right after leaving NAVI, joining B8, and taking over as an IGL? Did you think that he would be an IGL material?

He also said in that same interview that he thinks that the IGL of the future is going to be more of a playmaker, someone who calls also for himself, and not just someone like Aleksib or Snappi. Do you agree with him?

I didn't expect him to be an IGL overall. I don't even remember having this conversation or this idea. We didn't speak about this in NAVI Junior, or with aMi, or with another coach. We never thought about this, so it's quite interesting that he decided to do this. At this young age, it's very rare. There is a lack of IGLs, obviously, and the more IGLs there are in the scene, the better.

Speaking about IGLs who can be more playmakers. You know, if you speak about the T side, every IGL is in a playmaker role, as a second playmaker. So, for example, on Mirage the IGL is usually on Mid. If you speak about Inferno, IGL is around Banana on the T side. If you speak about Nuke, IGL is around Outside, he's kind of supporting the playmaker.

So I think he is speaking more about being a full playmaker., like Mihai [iM]... MOUZ's playmaker is xertioN, for example. In Vitality, they change sometimes, but I think FlameZ is now doing it, and apEX is also doing the same role sometimes. For Liquid, it's Twistzz. donk is doing it in Spirit, so it's still a little bit raw, it's not stable.

There was also an article the other day on HLTV about stats and roles. Speaking about roles, it's still very, very raw. So to have something like this, you need to have really set roles. And I really think that nowadays you can still change. With a proper system, if the system is designed well, I think you can change roles, analyze the players, and give correct ideas.

He's also saying that this is the future, but I think it's an impulsive idea. It's something like he's in the process of and he sees this at this moment, at this age. But I think he can change his idea because he needs to try different things also. In my opinion, I have been thinking about this for maybe the last three years. That IGLs, at least in my system, are not the crucial part.

In terms of fragging or…

In terms of calling. Because I honestly think that nowadays in the tier-one scene, it's impossible to control the game in the way you should if you want to win against a very strong team. In my vision, in my system, it's not possible to have enough time to discuss something in rounds. So players must have, most of the time, their own ideas of what to do.

It's impossible for an IGL to initiate [everything]. For example, if you take us. It's impossible for Aleksib to constantly initiate Mihai [iM]. He will never feel the same amount of timing, the same amount of space, sounds, everything. This moment is about milliseconds, especially on big stages where we used to say there's a loss between synergies, there's a loss of package, and it's crucial to have this independence in the team.

That's why what he's saying can be correct, because in my system it works for sure. It's not something you can rely on if you constantly want one player to control everyone. Even when I was playing, it was impossible. With a very good sniper, who can make decisions and calls, a very good playmaker and IGL, and lurkers. For us, b1t sometimes speaks so well, has such a good vision of what to do, and he just does it.

We had these situations so many times [and didn't take advantage], and we fixed them. Sometimes, a player can ask and he will not get a response, and then the timing is off, or he can ask and it will be denied, and then you see the demo and see it was the correct call. Then for sure, it's better to go, and then check the quality of the play later, you give yourself more chances [this way].

kassad said he sees the future with no IGL, just two playmakers. Is that something you feel can work?

This is kind of risky. I tried it in Gambit who didn't have an IGL, and no one wanted to take the role. I was really surprised and said okay, let's try to build around defaults, and then maybe people will try to communicate, and it should be fine. I saw at that moment that it kind of works, you just need more quality, but there was some potential. So it's possible for sure, it's all about knowledge of the team, preparation, game plan, synergy, and balance of the system. It's all about the system because without it, the model won't work.