daps' Orgless disband: "The support system I had coming up is non-existent"

9-4-2022 11:53

The Canadian in-game leader gave his opinion on Counter-Strike in North America following the disbanding of Orgless.

In a TwitLonger posted on Friday, Damian "⁠daps⁠" Steele announced the disbanding of the Orgless project he started in January. In the post, he detailed the reasons for the end of the lineup, as well as his thoughts on the current state of North American CS which contributed to the decision.

daps explains the project initially began with himself and William "⁠RUSH⁠" Wierzba as the core, and that they were prepared to play without salary for a while. "RUSH got an offer from EG early on which almost made me not continue the project since I knew how hard it would be to make a team progress at a good rate with no experienced players on it and also the fact that non of us had played CS together."

daps comments on the state of NA CS

Despite this, he decided to continue on because he and coach Hunter "⁠Lucid⁠" Tucker wanted to try for the RMR. The team went on to fail to qualify for the Americas Regional Major Ranking tournament, losing to ATK and UYU, respectively, in the two open qualifiers.

Afterward, daps listed reasons which he believes have contributed to the lack of growth in North America. One of the important ones he mentions is the lack of tournament support, with many smaller or regional tournaments having disappeared. "The reason this is so damaging is there are little to no opportunities to go to Tier 1 events or decent tier 2 LANs. This LAN experience is crucial for the development of players."

The other primary point, which has been mentioned by many over the past two years, is that of money: "The chance of a new org coming into the NA scene and paying a livable salary is extremely unlikely."

As for solutions to the problem, daps proposes a return of the North American division of ESL Pro League as a start. "This way partner teams can be challenged like they used to be and also gives the new talent more consistent match and practice experience vs the best in the region."

Following the end of Orgless, daps says he will take a break, stating that he thinks he has "been rushing into projects instead of actually assessing what is the best fit for me." While Michael "⁠Swisher⁠" Schmid has already joined up with ATK on trial, the future of the remaining players Brendan "⁠Bwills⁠" Williams, Marshall "⁠Minus⁠" Sedowicz, and Kenneth "⁠koosta⁠" Suen is not yet known.

unluchjkoi

2022-04-09 11:53

rIp

2022-04-09 11:54

rest in piece

2022-04-09 11:55

+valorant - valorant + valorant

en ay see es

2022-04-09 11:56

1 reply

an ayy see ass

2022-04-09 11:57

interesting

Sadge

I mean I already forgot that they made a team

2022-04-09 15:33

clown LUL

Oh men...

Having NA as its own pro league event is ridiculous

11 replies

Stupid. "Wa wa wa, we can't make proper players we need moar money". Yeah, like every fucking scene.

2022-04-09 12:00

You mean like before when there were tons of orgs supporting na cs?

2022-04-09 12:40

8 replies

yeah, back in the days NA was somewhat competitive but right now it'd be a clown fiesta.

2022-04-09 13:31

7 replies

Let's not forget that over 50% of the players playing in ESL Challenger League NA are known match-fixing scum. If I own an org why would I pay loads of money to players that anytime may get banned- or at the least- have their reputation impugned. Pay for an EU team you get better results and people that care about competitive integrity.

2022-04-09 16:44

6 replies

I doubt the ESIC investigation will ever be published nor be finished

2022-04-09 16:48

2 replies

ESIC may drop the ball but Richard Lewis already said he will release all the NA matchfixing info this year because he is tired of waiting for ESIC when it looks like they aren't even trying. Even if it isn't a global ban, at least ESEA would ban these players from playing in their leagues for fixing. That is what needs to happen first in NA. There is no point in trying to rebuild a scene when the scene is full of scum. I say we kick out all the fixers, even if that means we lose 80% of our tier II, then we rebuild the scene with the true players that remain.

2022-04-09 16:53

two more weeks…

2022-04-10 04:23

this is very sad.. from an EU perspective we need a strong NA scene, it offers much more variety in tournaments and keeps CSGO more relevant overall. also you have a very hyped crowd. stay strong NA

2022-04-11 13:23

NA as a region is great for competition. USA/Canada has lots of infrastructure allowing east coast players to play with west coast and still have low ping. Most people in NA own a PC capable of gaming, meaning they could try to compete if they wanted to. But what we lack as a region is the proper team first sporting mentality. We have always had the infrastructure and skill, but it's the mental game that kept us behind. All this match-fixing is proof. You have the next crop of NA talent and what do they choose to do? Grind the game and go tier 1? No, why do that when you can fix games for crime rings and get paid thousands, sometimes tens of thousands to ruin the integrity of a game. This is why I say it is our mental that is behind. Because anyone with a strong mind would not be willing to cheat or fix games. True winners and true competitors always play fair and let the gameplay speak for itself. I just hope we get all the scum cleaned out of our scene (even if that means we ban most of them) and we rebuild with players that have a true winners mentality. Because we do have those players out there. But the problem is, if you are on an ECL team with 3 match fixers and you need a new teammates- who are you going to invite to the team? A hungry, honest player? No, they will invite another cheating scum into the team. So not only do the fixers get to keep playing, but they take spots from honest hard working players. It really is a shame that so many of us are willing to give in to greed.

2022-04-11 14:06

"if you are on an ECL team with 3 match fixers and you need a new teammates- who are you going to invite to the team?" honest ones ofc. problem fixed

2022-04-14 10:28

They did have Dreamhacks tho....

expected

kekw

2022-04-09 11:58

the sad truth

2022-04-09 11:59

As someone who doesnt know the na scene that well, Is he a decent igl?

Yes but he’s at a point where it’s better for him to develop young players

2022-04-09 12:03

A move that everyone likes but eg needs a igl

2022-04-09 12:38

He’s a great igl with next to 0 fragging ability unfortunately

2022-04-09 17:09

He's like the NA karrigan, 0 firepower but insane igl, but he's from NA soooo

2022-04-09 13:10

Nt carrygun destroyed navi in g1

2022-04-09 14:09

karrigan actually can frag a little nowadays lol, daps is just useless. Better for him to coach instead of trying to steal paychecks

2022-04-09 14:28

He scouted and developed lots of players that we see today. Naf, rush, tarik, brehze, cerq, ethan (not relevant any more), just to name a few.

2022-04-11 16:02

ambitious one-day projects from na

na xd

2022-04-09 12:01

lul

2022-04-09 12:02

The support system is gone because the players in the NA scene prior to Valorant completely took advantage of everything. Players cared more about egos and reputations over winnings. Orgs were invested in the scene but left when players and teams failed to produce results over and over again. Covid just nailed it in the coffin.

2022-04-09 12:04

I agree with you, but this mindset even continued post-Valorant. Basically half the scene made the jump to another game for a quick buck because they knew that they would have an advantage when the meta hasn't developed that much. They left the CS orgs and especially small tournament organizers without any real reason to keep investing in "top-level NA CS". Then they started to trickle back to CS just to ask: hey, why does noone want to pay us?

2022-04-09 12:18

4 replies

classic NA

2022-04-09 15:02

I’ve said this plenty of times but… NA is dead. Not in the sense of 0 players but, in the sense there’s no reason to invest into the scene. But, lucky for us we still have a couple orgs willing to give NA a last dance. Much love for that.

2022-04-09 16:55

+1 So true...

2022-04-09 16:57

Well Covid certainly didn’t help. I think covid hurt the NA scene more than Valorant ever did. Covid took away all events in NA and created a bubble in EU. Why would any NA org invest in NA teams or players if the only way they can remotely make money is going to Europe. Until there are consistent events in other regions like how it used to be. Every region will be lacking consistent success unless they are living in EU.

2022-04-09 20:58

It’s not the players fault there is no path to being a pro anymore. Our major teams don’t have Academy rosters, our only notable tier 2 team was Extra Salt, and now they’re gone, and before CoL bought them they were international, which means there’s been a total of 15 decently paid NA jobs, of which ELiGE, NAF, Stewie, and RUSH have had 4 of the spots for over half a decade, and currently Cerq, Shox, and JT hold 3 more as foreign born players, meaning all of up and coming NA and veterans have 8 spots to compete for. 8. That’s how many players Astralis had on their team at 1 time lmao. Optic, Envy, Chaos, Cloud9, eUnited, GenG, Ghost Gaming, Triumph, all gone over the last couple years.

2022-04-09 17:33

I said it was the players fault prior to Valorant for why the scene is the way it is now. But yes you have a point.

2022-04-09 20:52

Cry more Daps

2022-04-09 12:08

2022-04-09 12:15

2022-04-09 12:20

Maybe once in a while show some fucking promise. They had their chance with the rmr and failed. He is so overrated.

2022-04-09 12:43

He makes some good points. NA cs can never recover if there's no tier 1 tournaments there

2022-04-09 12:44

cope harder

2022-04-09 12:54

Once again daps' team disband. Think I've heard that like 10 times

2022-04-09 12:56

We need C9 to do something!

2022-04-09 13:12

What would you like them to do?? Lose more money

Sure it may be harder than in EU for example to break out, but remember at the beginning of csgo when players were getting shitty salaries to live in some run down old apartment as a 'gaming house', but they didn't care cause they had a passion for the game and the drive to grind it out. The same concept is here now except the temptation of Valorant to too strong, you can go their as a tier 3 NA player and secure a decent paycheck on a decent team, but imagine if there was no Valorant. All these NA players would still be playing cs, more would be comitted to the grind as its their only option if they want to remain esports and the NA scene would be fine. This is also worsened by the factor of covid, so there aren't as many DH opens and smaller events in NA as its not worth for tournament organisers as the amount of extra measures they have to go to. As always, complaining gets you nowhere, so put in the fucking work or you don't deserve shit.

2022-04-09 13:20

ty 4 trying

2022-04-09 13:25

pain.

2022-04-09 13:27

As usual cry us free

2022-04-09 13:59

My only issue with statement like this is that it comes from player who is pretty much irrelevant even in T2 CS for quite some time. He MIGHT be a good coach, but as i player even if you would give him top tier talent (there is not a single guy from NA that looks really promissing to me ATM btw) he would not achieve that much. MAYBE he would develop them, maybe... he can do that as coach even more effectively. As a player he is out of shape for years now, constantly getting picked which shows how desperate situation is. Despite that, there has been few talents, osee, wolfy, floppy. But to me it is more like people from NA are too comfortable to grind even for no money. How many young talents hop str8 into t1 cs? Supertalents like ropz or frozen, ye, sure, but others also grinded hard in T3 for (almost) no money. He is right, that they need more competition, lower level tournaments for few bucks where youngsters can get scouted, but are there any talents?

2022-04-09 14:26

sad :'(

2022-04-09 14:34

sad

2022-04-09 14:50

Same as always, NA ESPORTS sucks hard. Same happened with League of Legends and they started importing countless talents from abroad, like asia and europe. NA simply doesn't have the guts to put proper structures in place and they don't take eSport seriously enough it seems as well, i mean the players, not the watchers. Junior said recently that NA players in CSGO lack the willingness to put in the hard work EU players do. Color me unsurprised, same was true in League of Legends for many years.

2022-04-09 14:54

one of NA's best IGL

2022-04-09 15:04

surprised ES never picked up that squad

2022-04-09 15:11

ES made there money and left lol.

2022-04-09 16:58

yes NA CS is dead, but wht abt french CS? uk cs? china cs? we shld support these regions where ppl are actually grinding cs and want to get better NA is just clout farm and if cs dont work just goto valo type beat

2022-04-09 15:40

That Valo train is over lol. Game is a whole different beast now.

2022-04-09 17:02

daps and big part of NA CS deserves so much better

2022-04-09 15:41

expected, time for real job

2022-04-09 16:31

Unluko!

2022-04-09 16:43

Sad, I was really happy because I thought that daps can maybe create like 2nd NRG and players like Minus will be new CeRqs etc., but sadly not this time, I hope this man find success in his career, I think I really like and respect him.

2022-04-09 17:38

2022-04-09 17:57

No1 likes you in NA. Put in the work like everyone else

2022-04-09 19:38

Fuck sake

2022-04-09 22:08

blame this on TRASHLULRANT

2022-04-10 01:42

time to retire you lowbob

2022-04-10 01:45

I mean even BR have a scene and we have way less money o than US I don’t know why those NA players are always complaining Dudes here play on small orgs for less than minimum wage and we still are able to reveal talents like yuurih and KSCERATO To me it looks like NA players are gold diggers hunting easy money and don’t even care about CS at all

2022-04-10 05:19