Editorial: Can ESL Pro League survive in a changing landscape?

ESL’s marquee Pro League is having an identity crisis as it tries to combine match overload with broadcast banter. Will it survive in the 2025 post-partnered league era?

Where are the EPL snows of yesteryear?

Oh, dear. One can already hear the comments rolling in. The editorialist deigns to criticize others for their banter — hypocrite! Patience, reader. We are simply going to review whether the recently completed ESL Pro League (EPL) Season 19 format remains sustainable, especially since 2025 will usher in the beginning of the end for partnered leagues, and how EPL should navigate its mid-life crisis.

ESL Pro League Season 19 is shorter than last year’s Season 18, but still has the feeling of being intolerably long and wearing on the psyches of viewers, players, and casters. In fact, EPL Season 19 is only a week longer than the Katowice/Cologne circuits, and yet feels three times as long.

Why is that? The combination of a byzantine bracket system, weeklong spates of matches, and discordance between the A and B streams are slowly fraying nerves and disassembling the logical structure of the tournament. What can be done?

To hype or to chill, that is the question

The court of a king features all manner of characters in it: sedate counselor, irate warrior, and profligate jester. But notice that archetypes exist for a reason: every man has a role to play and none does it half-heartedly. By virtue of this analogy, every piece has its role to play in a circuit. EPL right now is half-prince, half-jester and the king is nowhere to be found.

ESL Pro League has been ESL’s flagship league going back to 2015 when it merged with ESEA to institute this new league. Starting with Season 1, EPL is replete with historical memories that live on in the halls of Counter-Strike: Cloud9’s tank top summer, as well as EPL Season 4 being the first time an NA team won an international event in the CS:GO era, and early glimmers of green-and-yellow Brazilian flair beginning with Season 3.

We enjoyed Pro League because it felt like a culmination of an entire, less engaging (and online) sporting season, a Counter-Strike NBA playoffs only featuring the best of the best.

By Season 3, EPL had moved out of ESL’s studios and into a stadium format. While not quite the continent-hopping muster of an American sports league, the trajectory was clear. EPL was going to be a crème de la crème league for CS:GO and would only feature the best teams with their A-game, essentially akin to a Major without Valve’s imprimatur.

Early seasons of ESL's Pro League had stadium-level prestige

Like many things in the CS scene, this upward trajectory was cloven asunder by the COVID-19 pandemic. Two seasons were canceled for offline play and moved entirely online. The COVID changes also struck right after the announcement of the "Louvre Agreement" and the concurrent partner league wars with other TOs, adding both fuel and cold water to that long-simmering fire.

By the time Season 15 returned to offline play, the league had swelled to 24 participants, as opposed to 16 before the pandemic. As the global economic environment turned increasingly competitive, both in terms of milking streaming hours for at-home viewers and for intra-league competition, ESL kept upping the ante by continuously upping the prize pool. Concurrently, this league eventually found a home in Malta and now has settled on the 32-team melee we know today.

But as a result of this constant ante-upping, in an ever-escalating spiral with BLAST and very briefly Flashpoint, ESL had not foreseen one consequence. It has become bloated, festering, sometimes uninteresting, and altogether unwieldy. Thus, we have arrived at our present day and EPL’s current identity crisis. Let’s cover several issues.

Format

Do you remember when you first became addicted to Counter-Strike and were then made privy to the existence of the esports circuit and professional scene? It was like a new alien world unfolding in front of you: the Jurassic-era ferns part way to a plain filled with wondrous and splendid titans competing.

People became so good in public servers that they eventually escaped those hellholes, congregated in online leagues, competed across various tiers, and broke through to a fully paid profession of fame and glory. This felt like a natural progression for such a pure competitive sport.

The early seasons of EPL encapsulated that feeling with their lower team counts, qualifying only the best-of-the-best. And although it seems archaic now, their single-elimination groups format (with best-of-one matches) followed by single-elimination playoffs avoided viewer fatigue. And this structure was certainly not as brutal as the brackets of the CPL days (pray we never see single-elimination, best-of-one brackets for internationally flying teams ever again).

Tournament formats have been one of the underlying philosophical wars in the CS community, which has never ended (Swiss? I’ll fight you, bruv). ESL did not help matters in early iterations of the EPL with their nightmarish round-robin format, which ended in situations like triple ties in the group stages.

But to their credit, the league kept innovating into later seasons, eventually evolving to a double-elimination group format, and even doing away with best-of-ones following initial matches.

Only Kubrick's monoliths could top this aura

The problem, however, is once again ESL’s upping of the ante. Team counts kept rising, qualifying structures became increasingly complex and convoluted, and average spectator expectations kept increasing as well. At some point, best-of-one became unpalatable, as did early elimination for teams that had traveled far and wide to compete.

Adding to this was the clear paradigm shift of transitioning to an all-LAN format, turning an ostensibly long campaign of online groups into a marshaling ground of teams meeting in one place for weeks on end. While this came with the wow factor of all-LAN groups, it also killed the magic of lower-tiered teams grinding their way into LAN playoffs.

So now we have lived through Season 19. 32 teams. Triple-elimination groups with all best-of-three matches. If you had asked this article writer his feelings on this format in his early 20s, he would have been ecstatic and likely endeavored to watch all of these matches.

Back then he was in the habit of heading to Hamilton Hall for a class on 17th-century English prosody, but secretly watching SLTV StarSeries IV matches on mirage_ce on his phone. But then he was too idealistic; he didn’t consider logistics, and he didn’t realize just how long these matches could drag on. The lifeblood of many passions is measured in their inherent stamina.

The current format, along with the ever-increasing competitor count, has turned the EPL into a three-week slog (even five weeks in earlier seasons). Games are relegated to dual streams, take place during hours of both the European and North American workdays (the prime viewership demographics), and wear on viewers' patience. So, whereas before, the drag was the EPL's long length, now the drag has become the double-stream match saturation. And the dual stream format continues into the playoffs.

The lesson here is that EPL remains a time sink that looks better on paper (e.g., boardroom meetings) but frays viewers’ nerves. There is no getting around this fact. There is simply too much Counter-Strike and, somewhere along the way, the magic and the weight of the matches is lost. MR12 does practically zero to fix this issue; the bloat remains, and it has become distended.

The current Pro League format is gnarled like an old oak

There are plenty of other little inefficiencies with the format, e.g. four-month-old seeding giving way to extremely schizophrenic groups, teams needing to win different amounts of matches to progress, and plenty of meaningless middle-bracket matches that would only be worth watching if they were up on CSGOLounge. The worst offender may just be the 16-team playoff progressive bracket instead of a proper RO16 bracket. But let’s segue into the downstream effects of this bloat.

Stream Duality

So many matches means lots and lots of coverage. Now, first and foremost, the B stream is a fantastic opportunity and leg-up for casters and analysts trying to make their way into a scene where the ladders have been drawn up above them and the portcullises sealed shut. This is by no means a knock on the individual members of the B stream, as they have surely been putting in long days and nights for the opportunity of a lifetime.

But the B stream was hamstrung by ESL before it could even flower. The rough delay of casting from bedrooms, the related effects of tech issues, and the lack of synchronicity between the casters created a listening experience that was jilted and awkward. Many complained online about the disparity in quality between the A and B streams.

Bread and circuses at EPL

It should be said that as this is ESL’s flagship league, they are not expected to showcase such disparities in the way they broadcast their matches. One suspects that the downstream effect (yet again) of so many teams and so many matches has led the broadcaster to try and save money on the second production, recouping some of the overhead cost in talent and production while also maximizing viewing hours.

Under this formula, the perceived drop in quality on the B stream becomes almost irrelevant to ESL, as they can remain lean in their spending and rack up viewing hours to gain back profit. It is worth noting here that Savvy Games Group (ESL FACEIT Group's parent company) is reportedly considering moving away from esports spending, and coin purses could be summarily snapping shut. As they say, money is the motive.

The A stream is also not spared from a drop in quality, but whereas ESL could afford to “amateurize” their second production with lesser-known talent and throw at them a gauntlet of, if we’re being frank, mostly boring games to cover between third and second-tier teams, they had to shield their premier talent from the chance of likewise boring games by giving them free rein in how they cast games.

This decision to unleash the casters and analysts has had interesting consequences. Let’s start with some positives: 1) The rare example of pros like Nicolai "⁠device⁠" Reedtz joining streams to provide their unique insights and 2) the overall skits and B-roll content. The latter have been incredible and a testament to the creative powerhouse that the casting talent and ESL have both become while also employing very creative sketch writers and production-oriented thinkers.

Harry was certainly EPL Season 19's Giggler-in-Chief

The issue is on the streams themselves. Day-upon-day of matches and blockbuster talent cooped up in Malta led to some truly deranged casts. On one hand, one can sympathize with A-list casters having to basically speedrun long, mostly uninteresting, and low-stakes games for weeks on end, but this formula is likely going to lead to burnout if it hasn’t already. On the other hand, there are only so many times I want to hear about creampies on a stream, even if via innuendo.

The problem with morphing the A stream casts into basically Joe Rogan-lite podcasts full of inane discussions is multifold. Firstly, it can be jarring for a new viewer tuning in, who is expecting to understand the stakes and the lore behind the current match at hand. Secondly, the casters often become wrapped up in their storylines that are completely irrelevant to the round being played at hand and often tend to miss great plays.

There's also the disconnect between casters fooling around and teams competing for glory (for example Andrey "⁠B1ad3⁠" Gorodenskiy mentioning live on stream following Natus Vincere ascending to the playoffs that casters are in a holiday mood while Natus Vincere are there to win), which makes the games even less entertaining to watch and have less weight.

A caster or analyst from the A stream is going to read this and feel they have come under attack. Well, not really. It was ESL’s decision to open up EPL to so many teams, as well as their admittedly noble but flawed decision to change the format to triple-elimination, which has caused massive bloat in match quality. Caster and analyst burnout are real; this has been well established throughout the history of CS:GO and spoken of in-depth by the likes of Matthew "⁠Sadokist⁠" Trivett.

Idea for EPL Season 20: Matt has to fight his way back to good graces in the esports industry, John Wick-style.

Nobody is wishing these casters to subject themselves to suit-and-tie fake enthusiasm for weeks on end. Having fun is likely the only way they can stay sane, and some of the on-stream banter and most of the skits have been pure quality.

Yet, on a different token, the smaller teams that have made it to EPL may be playing the most important matches of their careers and deserve somewhat somber treatment rather than being subjected to a pure memecast that then lives on in VODs forever. So, whereas allowing casters to unwind is good, they will naturally discard serious casts from the lesser-tiered team matches and not take their games as seriously.

So what is the problem?

The problem is that EPL has an identity crisis. It is both too much and too little at once. It is the "alpha" male in the club flashing wealth to all and sundry and throwing cash on the floor; his spuriousness and insecurity are secretly visible to everyone. The stretching nature and endless feeling of matches is causing tedium across the board despite the over-the-top silliness of the casts. And at some point, the goofy bong-hit vibe becomes grating.

ESL want to recapture the magic of The Summit tournaments, i.e. a venue and format where players and casters could hang out and chill while providing genuine insight. But the problem is they are a corporation with corporate responsibilities and board room frigidity. It's like your dad trying to share current-day Twitch memes with you: far too uncanny valley.

EPL already channeling full JRE vibes for next season

Additionally, EPL is supposed to be ESL's flagship competitive league but is morphing into an influencer-culture-inspired and personality-driven content farm. With the level of focus waning and the level of content creation waxing, they may as well get in front of their own natural progression and hire two Just Chatting section streamers to cast games and have Nerf gun fights in between matches.

If you had told a random fan "32 teams, 3 weeks," no one could have come up with the current format except an upper-level executive looking to maximize the number of matches with bad teams, and minimize the number of matches with good teams. With 2025 looming and semi-partnered leagues likely soon dying, we can only celebrate the eventual deconstruction of the current state of the ESL Pro League.

That said, nobody wants the lazy fragility of a Valorant tournament circuit. Riot tournaments are where messy and beautiful humanity goes to get shot, thrown in an open pit, and then splashed with kerosene levels of infantile cringe and lit on fire to wails of uwu.

Give us stuff like the Lord of the Rings and Dune: Part Two skits, while also maximizing good match formatting/scheduling and professional, broadcast-level casting. While the quality of the matches themselves cannot be controlled, similar to in other sports, the other variables can be further finetuned.

This is not an indictment. Good games are a natural byproduct of Counter-Strike as a phenomenal game; they should in theory occur often and go down in history on a repeatable basis. And while partnered leagues may soon be a thing of the past, bloated tournaments could continue to haunt us — we need to strive to find a balance.

This solution should be something that works for viewers, talent, players, and TOs. It should not be one that prioritizes milking viewing hours for as long as possible at the expense of the game. It's clear after EPL Season 19 that their current identity is promising yet overwrought. Cast it back into the fire from whence it came; and let the ashes birth a new iteration strengthened by its glorious history.

Denmark Nicolai 'device' Reedtz
Nicolai 'device' Reedtz
Age:
28
Team:
Rating 1.0:
1.16
Maps played:
2027
KPR:
0.78
DPR:
0.62
Canada Matthew 'Sadokist' Trivett
Matthew 'Sadokist' Trivett
Age:
35
Team:
No team
Rating 1.0:
0.64
Maps played:
1
KPR:
0.50
DPR:
0.88
#1
Faceit level 10  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Portugal CrappyJayPee
Stich = not reading thanks (no hate)
2024-05-21 21:48
0
24 replies
+1
2024-05-21 21:48
0
snowflake
2024-05-21 21:58
0
6 replies
#45
Faceit level 10  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Portugal CrappyJayPee
Nah, just don't need to shit on other people/teams/things to garner popularity
2024-05-21 23:08
0
5 replies
then don't comment
2024-05-22 01:04
0
4 replies
#90
Faceit level 10  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Portugal CrappyJayPee
If he can give his opinion so can I lol
2024-05-22 01:21
0
3 replies
You didn't read the article, so your opinion is worthless
2024-05-22 01:21
0
2 replies
So you gotta read the entire biography of the H word to know you don't agree with him ?
2024-05-22 04:11
0
1 reply
#160
 | 
Norway Gjellan
Smartge
2024-05-22 12:20
0
An entire article of passive aggression -- I'm sure this won't garner any controversy. Oh irony, crucify me.
2024-05-21 22:35
0
#47
 | 
France GenG_Fan
Snowflake
2024-05-21 23:12
0
1 reply
#48
Faceit level 10  | 
GeT_RiGhT | 
Portugal CrappyJayPee
I think you might have some lack of attention. #45
2024-05-21 23:12
0
+1
2024-05-22 00:17
0
+1
2024-05-22 04:10
0
#113
Faceit level 5  | 
based | 
Brazil Raphzzz
+1
2024-05-22 04:26
0
#119
 | 
Russia HikZ
+1
2024-05-22 07:19
0
+1
2024-05-22 07:19
0
+1 definitely not reading this. We all know the format takes way too long, and the whole Malta tax beneficial thing is ending anyway. Time to quickly forget we wasted time on this.
2024-05-22 09:08
0
I read it. trust me, you're not missing out
2024-05-22 09:13
0
#154
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World mukas17
+1
2024-05-22 11:54
0
#163
 | 
Sweden Vrede
+1
2024-05-22 13:00
0
-1
2024-05-22 14:43
0
+1
2024-05-22 15:10
0
+1 Too try hard to my taste. It's a shame that all the actual points (which are good) are buried under weak metaphors. It basically reads like a high school paper, where a student has to reach a certain word amount by filling it with filler
2024-05-22 18:31
0
1 reply
+1 These smartass takes just make it feel so poorly written
2024-05-23 18:32
0
I hope not
2024-05-21 21:48
0
2 replies
+1
2024-05-21 22:24
0
+1
2024-05-21 22:58
0
good read
2024-05-21 21:48
0
1 reply
#166
 | 
United Kingdom CricGuru
+1 even though most of the points have already been discussed in CS podcasts such as Confirmed, Talking Counter etc, still nice to have a piece of writing which collates points more succinctly
2024-05-22 14:07
0
#4
Faceit level 10  | 
Israel avivpro13
tldr: no
2024-05-21 21:48
0
#6
JW | 
United States JW_belly
Stich = read it, studied it, copied it onto an ancient scroll and preserves it in an underground archive
2024-05-21 21:49
0
1 reply
+1 Kubrick reference got me.
2024-05-22 10:48
0
stopped reading at stich
2024-05-21 21:50
0
2 replies
#14
Faceit plus user  | 
manne | 
Finland iamjoe
conversely, you started typing at stitch
2024-05-21 21:57
0
What about him
2024-05-22 08:03
0
hopefully 2025 will be last year of cs
2024-05-21 21:50
0
Fix EPL: Group Stage can be the laid back gibberish but playoffs must go back to the arena. Meaning no more Malta. Never host any event in Malta again.
2024-05-21 21:52
0
14 replies
+1
2024-05-21 21:54
0
#19
 | 
England BobDude65
+1
2024-05-21 22:04
0
+1
2024-05-21 22:07
0
+1
2024-05-21 22:30
0
This
2024-05-21 23:19
0
Spot on
2024-05-21 23:30
0
+1 fuck malta
2024-05-21 23:32
0
#60
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
magixx | 
World mcs#
-1 we have more than enough arena playoffs
2024-05-21 23:39
0
1 reply
-1
2024-05-22 01:07
0
+1
2024-05-22 01:42
0
+1
2024-05-22 03:30
0
#112
Faceit level 5  | 
based | 
Brazil Raphzzz
+1
2024-05-22 04:25
0
#159
RpK | 
France HippzZ
+1
2024-05-22 12:20
0
+1
2024-05-23 01:05
0
Sado is back for season 20?! Did I read that correctly?!!!
2024-05-21 21:53
0
5 replies
nah, he's just suggesting it.
2024-05-21 21:54
0
3 replies
ngl I had a semi from thinking that was about to happen
2024-05-21 22:52
0
2 replies
wtf
2024-05-22 04:15
0
1 reply
Sado is leagues above everyone else combined, takes 5 seconds of his random cast to realize that 3/10 day from him is a lifecast for everyone else.
2024-05-22 10:36
0
hope so goat caster
2024-05-23 01:05
0
stitch do you want to play Gilgamesh's royal game of Ur
2024-05-21 21:59
0
Stich brings diversity dont be mad
2024-05-21 22:01
0
Only reason it will ever fail is because ESL want to save money, nothing wrong with EPL, great banter and laidback. They already cut the length of it this year because it was too long for some
2024-05-21 22:02
0
The biggest problem with EPL is it being an entirely studio lan with like 50 people as a crowd if that. They need to make the playoffs in an arena, and its fine if the rest of the matches have to be online for that
2024-05-21 22:04
0
3 replies
Just like #9 mentioned
2024-05-21 23:21
0
#176
Faceit level 10  | 
XigN | 
United States LiVitShiro
Why? Every other event follows this format.
2024-05-22 15:31
0
+1
2024-05-23 01:04
0
#23
 | 
North America minte
Michal Malachowski = i read it
2024-05-21 22:06
0
epl works great
2024-05-21 22:09
0
#27
Faceit level 8  | 
 | 
Ireland Anklejoints
Es(L) pro league
2024-05-21 22:21
0
#28
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10  | 
 | 
Europe Asviix
I hope it won't, allows team like Mouz to fake being good and it's a 1 month long borefest where nothing happens
2024-05-21 22:17
0
i am almost determined at this point to take every stich article and have it graded by journalists, because this is fucking egregious
2024-05-21 22:25
0
2 replies
They will all rate it atleast 7/10, this is a great article
2024-05-22 01:09
0
1 reply
i just can't tolerate it men it's like The Onion on crack cocaine
2024-05-22 02:25
0
Good questions posed... Its tough to have "no bo1" and "all LAN" and "no early elimination" in a way that *doesn't* go on forever... Maybe we just need to all quit our jobs and watch CS in Mom's basement
2024-05-21 22:27
0
Common stich W
2024-05-21 22:30
0
Yeah the famous ESL Pro League that is neither professional nor a league
2024-05-21 22:35
0
2 replies
Lol yeah
2024-05-21 23:21
0
+1 lmao
2024-05-21 23:38
0
Esl fucked up and took out the regional pro leagues. Fuck em And bring back Sadokist
2024-05-21 22:40
0
1 reply
real
2024-05-22 01:59
0
#40
 | 
Russia veloxman
stich is an interesting person good article
2024-05-21 22:46
0
#41
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10  | 
0SAMAS | 
United Kingdom minimitch
Stich = not reading thanks
2024-05-21 22:47
0
1 reply
Iq checks
2024-05-22 01:10
0
#42
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Slovakia Numb3r
ESL pro league is too long and too boring. It has bad format also. I hope it will not survive.
2024-05-21 22:48
0
shitpost article not reading
2024-05-21 23:08
0
#49
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
bladee | 
Latvia Namesnipe
The one good thing about EPL is that it allows regional teams to flex their muscles and get valuable skills, reviewable demos etc. against actual T1 opposition. This format sucks but i wish this aspect could be maintained somehow
2024-05-21 23:13
0
Maybe im the exception, but i really like the format of EPL including S19. It's my favorite tournament exactly because it is more laid back and leaves more room for creativity and banter
2024-05-21 23:27
0
1 reply
For me pro league is like fast food. I can watch 1 series and i have a lot of fun. After that the more i watch the more i want to vomit.
2024-05-22 11:32
0
#54
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
magixx | 
World mcs#
Well, considering previous answers it will be unpopular opinion. EPL is very enjoyable tournament for me. Stakes are not very high, super chill studio environment and casters are having fun but not too much (like cs_summit). Some teams can use this tournament to practice (but still with Grand Slam in mind and decent prizepool on the line, also prestige), some teams can use it to show themselves. Other teams (which are not attending the event) can use this time to rest. Also we have many "unknown" teams and it's great opportunity for them. Even if they're losing their matches quickly I don't mind having them here. Why? Because every month we have some Blast/Iem tournament and they're basically the same, same teams, same fast and "small" formats, same feeling overall. I like the feeling when I know that for the next 3 weeks I'll have chill EPL and I can watch some random match during the evening. And to see some ESL production or watch casters playing dust2 inbetween games. I don't think EPL will survive but I think it will be good for the scene/viewers/teams to have at least one EPL-like event during the year.
2024-05-21 23:36
0
2 replies
+1 EPL this year was the most fun i've had watching CS
2024-05-22 08:21
0
#177
Faceit level 10  | 
XigN | 
United States LiVitShiro
+1 EPL is great and I'm glad that kept the summit format going. People also don't really mention that the players are so much more involved in content at this event and when they're on the couch it feels like they actually talk like humans.
2024-05-22 15:37
0
#57
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Europe Mision
Might be tough with even more stacked calendar for the upcoming years but I really like the chill format and I think it serves its purpose very well. Really enjoyed this season, the previous ones were def too much in terms of duration. Unfortunately community hates EPL even more than Blast groups for some reason so it probably won't survive
2024-05-21 23:33
0
2 replies
people hate EPL mainly because of it being a studio event. They addressed the the complaints of the long format somewhat by cutting it down to three weeks at least.
2024-05-21 23:41
0
1 reply
#65
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Europe Mision
ok, I get it. For me it would be enough if only grand final would be on stage because only then I felt that the crowd was missing but I understand that probably for most people it's bit boring so the quarterfinals could already be on the stage. Also I don't think we need 2 EPL a year either. Fixes are still required for EPL but I would be a little sad if they disappeared forever
2024-05-21 23:55
0
#58
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
KRIMZ | 
Sweden Lackstrom
EPL is unique , something that is unique you should take extra care off.
2024-05-21 23:34
0
#62
 | 
Spain nTapps
really dont undestand why you guys hate on epl ive watched the hltv confirmed, i just dont get it. its like you want to be cs snobs. if its not cologne its not worth. epl great tournament. let it be
2024-05-21 23:47
0
3 replies
#70
 | 
Spain nTapps
"...and yet feels three times as long." Hmmm. No, it doesn't. Not to us the viewers
2024-05-22 00:10
0
I want to watch a fun show not full tryhard, I can go and play myself if I want hard CS. Im a viewer cuz I want to be entertained. Sure, a Katowice or Cologne should be tryhard, but there is nothing wrong with one family vibe like event per year. If you dont like it, dont watch, simple as that. People are just harsh for no reason. Also Ioved it even more when it was 4 weeks, I had it on my 2nd monitor while I was working on my main. It was chill af vibes
2024-05-22 00:12
0
1 reply
#74
 | 
Spain nTapps
Exactly. I love epl as well I think only the casters don't like for some reason and are trying, through hltv, put this opinion on rest of the community.
2024-05-22 00:18
0
Bring back round robin otherwise it’s not really a “league”
2024-05-21 23:52
0
i miss the old format where everyone played each other within their regions, and then there is a finals that you need to qualify for
2024-05-21 23:58
0
Wake up babe, Stich dropped another Nuke. Now how does one actually fix Pro League? Either go back to the old formats from Season 10 and before with a promotion / relegation system that includes Challenger League again, has 14-20 teams in EU, 10-14 teams in NA, SA and APAC-OCE. Challenger League champs + Runner-Ups get promoted, bottom two in each region get relegated. In Pro League, spot allocation changes based on finishing order in the previous season: For every team in a certain round (Winner +1 spot for region, Semifinals +1 spot, Quarterfinals +1 spot and so on and so forth) means additional teams can qualify for the next season's Finals. Start by having the best 16 teams show up to the LAN Finals with it then turning into your regular IEM-like event except for the fact that 8 teams should make Quarterfinals and so you cut out the Lower and Upper Finals in each group in favor of 2 more high stakes Quarterfinals, essentially making the group stage similar to the Katowice or Cologne Play-Ins. All matches BO3. Top 8 in playoffs, single elimination BO3 with BO5 Grand Finals. Regular Season Online Group Stage Studio or secluded on site with Season 25 getting crowds for all games as a sort of special edition. Playoffs in the Arena. Regular Season sees the current Challenger League format, each team plays two BO1s back to back and each BO1 won or lost counts as a victory or loss with every opponent being played. If you want to get technical, overtime wins or losses can be added to the columns or as tiebreakers. 1 week for the LAN Finals, play Pro League matches as your pro scrims to keep in the loop between IEM events, easy peasy, done.
2024-05-22 00:07
0
I love it and it is the best event to watch as a casual viewer. Period
2024-05-22 00:07
0
1 reply
If that were true it would garner more casual viewers which it does not. It was down over 100k peak viewers.
2024-05-22 18:33
0
#69
 | 
New Zealand Skye620
Not surprised it’s a stich article. Love the writing style as always!
2024-05-22 00:09
0
> One can already hear the comments rolling in. The editorialist deigns to criticize others for their banter — hypocrite! Patience, reader. Of courseee it's stich
2024-05-22 00:22
0
This is my favorite article of yours so far, stich, I think you’ve found a good balance
2024-05-22 00:25
0
5 replies
#82
Faceit level 9 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
jOELZ | 
Poland stich - HLTV.org
I can definitely say my writing was rustier than I had thought and it's improving article by article, so that's something to be proud of regardless of where this takes me. My continuing studies are also sharpening the clarity of my writing.
2024-05-22 01:03
0
4 replies
#93
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10  | 
Aleksib | 
Poland m9xddxd
why do you always use these eccentric synonyms of words
2024-05-22 01:29
0
3 replies
#141
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark Engus
What synonyms u refering to?
2024-05-22 10:45
0
#169
Faceit level 9 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
jOELZ | 
Poland stich - HLTV.org
you want my villain origin story? One I've only told a handful of people? I was sitting in AP English Lang in 10th grade and my classmate used the word "superfluous," which I didn't know what it meant then. The teacher complimented him on his use of the word, and I quietly (seethingly) determined I would never not know a word again. Many years later and I have a turbocharged English diction. I'm not using fancy words to impress people; they just tend to bleed through when I'm writing. Naturally my editor and I still work to eliminate the overly pretentious stuff, but this is also the way I enjoy writing at the end of the day.
2024-05-22 14:43
0
1 reply
#179
Faceit plus user Faceit level 10  | 
Aleksib | 
Poland m9xddxd
that answers my question thank you mr stich I will say that this article was definitely my favourite out of all of yours that I've read
2024-05-22 16:28
0
Great article. There is not thing I can think of that was left unsaid. Now, if they want to embrace the league part of pro league, they can do that. Other sports do that by cutting the amount of games that get shown from groupstage. So for example three games being played at same time, but only one shown on stream. That is very possible to do like that as long as all the teams get their spotlight on stream in turn and there are enough games. All playoffs games get shown of course. Would TO want to do that, to favor sport aspect over streaming which is essentially what makes money, probably not. But we shouldn't pretend like it isn't an option. Nobody would really miss the second stream on a tournament like this even if it was gone.
2024-05-22 00:32
0
dont reading, doeasnt care, dont cry, move on
2024-05-22 00:34
0
"Extremely schizophrenic groups" hahaha like the skit videos and pros commentating but defo too casual often
2024-05-22 00:35
0
I don't watch Counterstrike on a regular bases, but just the difference between the BetBoom Dacha finals and the EPL finals was mindblowing. In EPL, in a third of the rounds it felt like the game was a nuissance to the caster, interrupting their banter or stories. Not sure if in the finals aswell, but I'm certain I watched multiple playoffs/late groupstage rounds in which three casters didn't mutter a single word about the round. Then you watch BetBoom and it is still a bit of fun and storytelling, but the shoutcasting is crisp and focused. As a former shoutcaster myself, I really hate casters who aren't up for the game...and I especially hate it when shoutcasters get annoyed by the game they are casting. Sorry, when the game is not entertaining, it is your job to make it so - not to talk nonsense. And don't even get me started on that "Inbox"-thing they had going...I was almost expecting someone starting to talk about the "Hot Buzzer". I would however disagree with the author about Riot: The LEC allows for a lot of great, creative fun and still the shoutcasts are on point and high-quality. You can definetly have both.
2024-05-22 00:37
0
Seriously who cares about a random tournament hosted by some random moneyhungry saudi coops. Btw foreign streams are always better than english casts. Pure cringe. I rather watch streams for years in all the languages i speak b1+ in than watch an english cast. Much more entertaining, even beneficial in learning the languages. Can only recommend
2024-05-22 01:07
0
Good article. I agree with his arguments. ESL Prol Lague need to change.
2024-05-22 01:06
0
Partner teams ruined Pro League, and ESL knows it. It will sort itself out next year. Pro League was a lot better when it was divided into European and American league ladders, where the games were very widely spread out during a season. It felt different and a change of pace compared to other online events.
2024-05-22 01:11
0
2 replies
+1 2025 can't come soon enough. Really tired of the whole partner teams bs.
2024-05-22 01:39
0
Man speaks truth
2024-05-22 10:03
0
Hopefully not. Would only be acceptable if they get a proper arena with a crowd for the plaoffs, at the very least.
2024-05-22 01:28
0
the fix is pretty easy GIVE THE EVENT A STAGE WITH CROWD not this t3-esque stuff where all you hear is the tumbleweed
2024-05-22 01:43
0
hltv.org/forums/threads/2900836/what-sho.. I love your post, it is essentially the post i made monday, but so much more in depth, with previous history, more suggestions, and in all aspects, even regarding the broadcast talent. Your article is what i wanted to articulate, but while i was limited by time and knowing the normal hltv crowd that reads user made posts dont read posts anywhere near this long, you took the time and effort to put it all together as fully as possible. In other words i made a baked potato and you made the worlds best deluxe double baked loaded potato man has ever conceived in comparison. Thank you for putting my full thoughts into words <3 what a terrific article.
2024-05-22 01:49
0
4 replies
they musta read your thread...
2024-05-22 07:46
0
3 replies
I don't doubt it, but i doubt they started this editorial on monday after seeing it. 2 days is just not enough time to write all this when stich still goes to school (unless im reading #82 wrong) and put this many words into an article. A normal run of the mill article could take an hour if it has 4-6 paragraphs and then placing the pictures and linking players/teams/other news reports in the post. This monstrously sized article has at least 40 paragraphs, though very few links were imbeded. I think this would take about a week to make, perhaps stich started right after pro league ended even. Either way i just doubt my article was in any way the reason this article was made, its just the timing, though perhaps there was a bit of inspiration taken, if any was that actually makes me proud since that means i made a great post :)
2024-05-22 12:12
0
2 replies
#171
Faceit level 9 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
jOELZ | 
Poland stich - HLTV.org
Thanks Gabiola, appreciate the compliments a lot. Funnily enough I actually came across your blog post yesterday before my article was posted lol...and thought to myself, "wow this is a very similar thread of thought" As for when the article started, it's been in the works for a while, before EPL playoffs even, unfortunately I had been on a California road trip for over an entire week which delayed a lot of the editorial rounds and fixes that were needed once playoffs had ended, plus a few other threads were suggested and occurred to me while writing
2024-05-22 14:47
0
1 reply
Hey there's nothing unfortunate about bring on a road trip! I hope you enjoyed that week out in Cali, I've never been but i would love to go one day. Keep up the good work, and i hope to read more of your good work :) much love <3
2024-05-22 18:22
0
#100
Faceit level 7  | 
 | 
Germany Youju
I want more tournaments with a big crowd...
2024-05-22 02:25
0
#101
 | 
Brazil darkfroid
agree
2024-05-22 02:57
0
"Harry was certainly EPL Season 19's Giggler-in-Chief"
2024-05-22 03:11
0
#103
 | 
United States radchad
Came here to say the map ( I think it was Ancient?) where Device was trio casting was the most fun I've had watching a group stage pro match in a while. The EPL19 casting style can work if they don't go too hard too often, I think.
2024-05-22 03:15
0
1 reply
#178
Faceit level 10  | 
XigN | 
United States LiVitShiro
Absolutely, that was a great game
2024-05-22 15:43
0
EPL in São Paulo.
2024-05-22 03:19
0
B stream was terrible I agree, and last last last last change is awful
2024-05-22 03:22
0
#107
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Canada Lachance
I must agree last EPL was weird AF
2024-05-22 03:53
0
#108
 | 
Romania nontoxic
No
2024-05-22 03:57
0
#116
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States jschleg
i totally agree the casting was rough at times. by people i normally like a lot also, and still do for that matter. other than what was stated my opinion is that 3 is too many. every time i hear 3 people casting its a bad time and i really do enjoy hearing the opinions of the casters etc. i would prefer it to stay on counter-strike and relate to the game more tho for sure
2024-05-22 05:15
0
This was my first season watching the tournament and it was fun. Deep tournament with cool arcs.
2024-05-22 05:23
0
1 reply
Wait until you watched at least 5 more in this style and you will understand why people slowly grow sick of this.
2024-05-22 08:01
0
Good things: - only BO3s - lot of games, literally all day, you can just tune in - casting banters & hilarious productions - prolonged length of the tournament - Casting with players for insights - smaller/newer teams can get an actual offline experience and don't have to leave after 1 to 3 BO1 (depending on formats) - clear groups and brackets (I like the general idea of swiss, but holy fuck, that shit is so stupid with all the background seeding Information you need to have to understand how the brackets evolve) Bad things: - Triple elim - weird seeding, if you miss the tournament, there's 4 weeks of nothing but prep (hello Spirit) - length of the tournament breaks - often times feels artificial, despite all the funny banters and content - definitely exhausting for caster's and the whole crew - games lack weight, despite BO3 - missing Playoff environment (not necessarily an arena needed, but some noticable change compared to groups) Ambivalence: Tournament is stacked great teams, high prize pool and offers great games, but yet it feels like training grounds with basically no meaning
2024-05-22 07:10
0
well, I don't mind a long event with lots of matches. but much of the time watching ESL events feels like watching a show starring the talents. maybe next time they can do jackass stunts or something
2024-05-22 07:45
0
Meds
2024-05-22 08:04
0
I'm surprised there isn't any mention of the prize pool. 750k with 170k for the winner is not enough for a "flagship event", which could explain the laid back attitude Spirit even skipped the tournament, there's no crowd, what are you supposed to win if you are a T1 team, intel grand slam maybe and that's all But that said, having 4 big, Stadium, high prize tournaments (2 Majors, Cologne, Katowice) a year, seems perfectly fine and healthy for the scene It's fine for me to have chill events were it's kind of a big practice were teams can make a bit of money
2024-05-22 08:25
0
2 replies
#172
Faceit level 9 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
jOELZ | 
Poland stich - HLTV.org
hmm interesting, I hadn't even thought of that but good point
2024-05-22 14:48
0
#175
 | 
United States PhilMC
+1
2024-05-22 15:13
0
#130
Faceit level 8  | 
 | 
Germany reicH_
i disagree alot. The length of this is perfect. i enjoy watching many days in a row while beeing at work. And by the way choosing from 2 different streams is PERFECT cause maybe i dont wanna watch a deadass boring game beteween tyloo and some other tier6 teams?? So i have the freedom to watch what ever i like. And if the have 2 exiting game on stream A and B i can use multiple Monitors! how great is that???
2024-05-22 09:38
0
I dont get the hate. Laid back atmosphere. Good talents. Intimate environment. The players enjoy it. Maybe last year and this year was a little silly at times, but its ok due to the many hours to kill. Only thing to critizise is the lack of a decent crowd.
2024-05-22 10:04
0
1 reply
I agree, personally I enjoy the random conversation and jokes made by casters. It’s tasteful and they have a good sense of when they need to be serious.
2024-05-22 10:56
0
"A caster or analyst from the A stream is going to read this and feel they have come under attack. " Well they should. I'm barfing from those uninspired casters. Either hire casters that give a shit about the game being played or just don't cast. They A stream casters has been a net negative for me watching. I turned of the sound a lot of the time because I'd rather miss the ingame sound than listen to those arsinine "talents" talking about whatever BS that wouldnt keep me engaged at 3am skunkdrunk in a bar. Miss me with that piss
2024-05-22 10:07
0
1 reply
#173
Faceit level 8  | 
 | 
Ireland Anklejoints
+1
2024-05-22 15:06
0
stich article, more verbal diarrhoea
2024-05-22 10:42
0
2 replies
Why does everyone seem to hate this guy? Genuine question
2024-05-22 10:57
0
1 reply
#162
 | 
Poland BAN_ANIME
his first articles had some issues (unnatural language, a joke that felt borderline racist and would probably get you banned at forums) so people kinda remember that
2024-05-22 12:52
0
why so many people hating on Malta?
2024-05-22 11:02
0
#156
 | 
France KentinS
EPL is hype for little teams and chill for tops.
2024-05-22 12:05
0
#158
 | 
Netherlands Wimmie
The editorialist deigns to criticize others for their banter — hypocrite!
2024-05-22 12:15
0
who cars
2024-05-22 12:34
0
#164
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal Faydeeeee
lets be honest, this whole thing started cus a few guys online were saying it was shit, someone got in their feelings and talked about it on every cs podcast. now, this is such a non issue turned into something mediatic for no reason. Nothing changed this year besided ESL going full on on the skits which were funny again. Apart from that everyone knew EPL was always something chill (at least for the past handful of seasons). For me this is a dumb argument, in esports there is always a space for a more laidback event. Are there improvements to make in the EPL format? 100%. Should we be talking about EPL surviving? Absolutely not.
2024-05-22 13:18
0
#165
Faceit level 7  | 
Bonfire | 
San Marino twovetti
triple elim to double elim should be enough
2024-05-22 13:34
0
The current format is good for small region team like APAC and NA to gain quality match againts EU team only thing to change is playoff play in stadium/arena not this LAN studio.
2024-05-22 14:07
0
#180
Faceit level 10  | 
 | 
France Carrotaboy
Too long like 1month for a studio final is just not it
2024-05-22 17:48
0
#184
Faceit level 4  | 
 | 
United Kingdom fknra
As a relative newcomer to the scene (two majors and the odd tournament here and there) the disparity between the cast style is gigantic. Its simply student radio, crass jokes for the most part with actual commentary of the match, statistics and history taking a back seat. I dont think you can grow the scene with juvenile commentary such as this, but when you see how good the analysis was during the last two majors you know the quality is there.
2024-05-22 19:13
0
#185
Faceit level 9  | 
 | 
Poland Kobel_
"Only Kubrick's monoliths could top this aura" "plenty of meaningless middle-bracket matches that would only be worth watching if they were up on CSGOLounge" "Riot tournaments are where messy and beautiful humanity goes to get shot, thrown in an open pit, and then splashed with kerosene levels of infantile cringe and lit on fire to wails of uwu" Insert the guy writing a flaming letter gif Overall great piece, I would add just one thing to the already mentioned identity crisis. I feel it's alright if the LAN groups are played in a studio setting in Malta as they are now (format changes aside), but at least the top 8 of playoffs must make their way into a stadium. Even if it came with a break, like BLAST circuit does, it's fine, but having your flagship league finals played on a small makeshift scene with the crowd consisting mostly of club affiliates and journalist is not only bad optics, but makes the fans not care about the tournament.
2024-05-22 19:34
0
#186
JK | 
Australia S_FAN
Five events we wish were erased from our memory
2024-05-22 20:14
0
1 reply
#187
JK | 
Australia S_FAN
Editor's note: This is a satirical article and does not reflect the opinions of HLTV.
2024-05-22 20:14
0
Ok
2024-05-23 13:50
0
ESL should be canceled. Replaced by a group that doesn’t have woman abusers.
2024-05-23 20:37
0
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