Valve admits to "unfortunate miscommunication" in Major seeding debacle

24-11-2024 17:20

The developer noted that its ranking had already been used to determine invites in Copenhagen.

Valve has acknowledged that a miscommunication occurred when dealing with Perfect World with regards to how the seeding for the Shanghai Major will be done.

Perfect World announced on Friday that the Major's Elimination Stage spots will be determined by Valve's Regional Standings (VRS) rather than the results in the Europe RMRs. By then, the Europe RMRs were more than halfway completed, and a fourth-place decider in RMR A had been played to determine the fourth team heading to the top-16 stage.

Shanghai Major Elimination stage invites to be decided by VRS update; fourth-place deciders cancelled

According to Perfect World, Valve confirmed the use of the RMR record as a seeding method ahead of the event, despite the rulebook stating that the Elimination Stage spots would follow a pre-event VRS update.

Contacted by HLTV, Valve took its share of the blame for the debacle.

"We had some unfortunate miscommunication and crossed wires early in the process of answering Perfect World's questions about the Major, and we did not fully appreciate at the time that their rulebook did not use the latest language in the Supplemental Rulebook," Valve told HLTV.

"For our part, we certainly take responsibility for not identifying the issue and correcting the ruleset much earlier in the process."

The change will not interfere with the outcome of RMR A, where the four favorites made it through to the Elimination Stage. But it's a different case in the upset-filled RMR B, where BIG were already celebrating a top-16 spot after going 3-0 in the tournament.

Currently ranked 15th in Europe by Valve, the Germans will have to settle for a spot in the Opening Stage.

Valve admitted that the mid-RMR fix "has caused pain for teams and frustration for fans," but it pointed out that the seeding for the Copenhagen Major already followed the VRS system.

"We shifted to seeding teams by the VRS in Copenhagen specifically to address criticism of the Paris Major and events that had preceded it," Valve said.

"So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the Major."

Perfect World Shanghai Major team list set

An update to the Valve Regional Standings will come after the conclusion of the RMRs to determine the eight teams that will go straight to the Elimination Stage, as well as the first match-ups for the Opening Stage.

Valve admitted to something??

2024-11-24 17:21

564

3 replies

I think the article is just bait

2024-11-24 17:35

youtube.com/watch?v=4g8RqFnHz4Q

2024-11-24 17:58

First time I see over 500 +1s on a post and the button is on fire. very cool mr Hltv, thank

2024-11-25 15:51

Valve taking accountability? What's next, pigs start flying?

2024-11-24 17:22

260

1 reply

Half-life 3 will be released.

2024-11-24 18:50

No shit

lul

I forgive you Valve

5 replies

I dont and BIG hopefully wont as well. Sue those mf.

2024-11-24 19:02

4 replies

BIG is shit and was lucky anyway Hopefully 3DMAX sue those mf

2024-11-24 20:52

Your personal opinion really doesnt matter. They won 3-0 in the RMR, therefore should be qualified.

2024-11-24 21:41

most hltv users can't even do a call-center job properly - yet they expect others to operate perfectly at all times. and criticize saudi and qatar for their social policies.

2024-11-25 13:57

Hahahahaha insane whataboutism

2024-11-25 15:48

neat to hear that they reply to hltv about stuff like this and admit when they fd up

It's still not fair, when the tournament already started the rules should not be changed

2024-11-24 17:24

101

7 replies

It's the tournaments fault for not getting with the times.

2024-11-24 18:28

True, but the rules were not changed, Valve just enforced the correct rule.

2024-11-24 20:54

Enforcing the "correct" rule after the fact is still a breach of competitive integrity. It was not a secret that Perfect World are trying to use the "incorrect" rule. If Valve cared about it, they should've checked it before the tournament started, or at least enforce it before any team would be affected. If they didn't care enough, it's too late, they should've left it as it is. Imagine if mid-World Cup FIFA comes in and says "Oh, silly us, we forgot to check how organizers understood the rules, so the seeding is incorrect, it should be based on our rankings and not the actual game results (which is crazy enough by itself), let us fix it real quick".

2024-11-24 21:53

Let me know if I'm understanding this correctly. PW: We're going to use the old rules for seeding. That cool? Valve: Cool with us. RMR A starts, everyone understands how seeding will work. Fourth place match happens, no one has any concerns. RMR B starts, everyone still understands how seeding will work. Two unexpected teams qualify for the Elimination Stage. Valve: Please use the new rules. Valve: We had some unfortunate miscommunication.

2024-11-25 05:42

Incorrect, this is the sequence of events: -PW say something that is mistranslated or misunderstood by Valve. -Valve approve the rules without realizing that PW changed them. -RMR A starts and 1 match that shouldn't be held under the official rules is played. -Valve realizes that this has occurred and step in before a similar incorrect match can be played in RMR B. - Valve's timing is poor and the news is announced after teams in RMR B have already gone 3-0. - Valve own up to the mistake, Perfect World seemingly do not.

2024-11-25 15:40

2 replies

That's all fair. My only quibble is that the entire community understood how PW was doing the seeding before RMR A started. Everyone definitely knew after the FaZe/C9 4th place match. Everyone still knew when RMR B started, and when two teams were told they had qualified for the Elimination Stage. Misunderstandings happen, but it should have been corrected much, much earlier.

2024-11-26 04:44

I absolutely agree, Valve is 100% to blame for the poor timing. I know that some community members (like messioso) pointed out the discrepancy, but it seemed to fall on deaf ears until way to late.

2024-11-26 14:54

Just give 100% sticker money to BIG and 3dmax. Saying unfortunate doesn't do shit

2024-11-24 17:23

15 replies

they weren't robbed of sticker money lmao

2024-11-24 17:45

13 replies

Going into a capsule with fan favourites like NAVI, FaZe, Vitality, Mouz and G2 is a huge difference to a capsule with PassionUA, GamerLegion, FlyQuest and Wildcard when it will comes to sales lmao

2024-11-24 17:53

9 replies

no its not necessarily true, they could have a teams like furia, rare atom, liquid and other good teams for sales

2024-11-24 18:16

BIG will probably be in a capsule with Mongolz, Furia, Liquid, Complexity, VP, Pain and FlyQuest. Some good selling teams but not close to having NavI, Faze, Vitality, Mouz, G2, Heroic/VP and 3dmax in the same capsule.

2024-11-24 20:56

during paris major, contenders earn even more than legends so u'r wrong hltv.org/news/37930/sources-paris-major-..

2024-11-24 18:19

Probably bc Paris contenders had ENCE, G2, NIP, Liquid, Mouz and legends basically just had NAVI, Vitality and Furia

2024-11-24 18:26

navi vitality and furia is not just, its one of the most selling stickers

2024-11-24 18:41

Sure, let’s give them everything because of a fluke 3-0 RMR performance. If they are good they will qualify through the Opening stage.

What was the whole rmr for when u barely scrape by going 3-0

2024-11-26 07:12

I would rather go to capsule with gods like Childking, Mzinho than Ponk, Mayonesy pfft. oh wait ponk will be in that capsule too.

2024-11-24 21:52

fyi you spelled their names wrong

2024-11-25 09:26

I meant it as a gesture of goodwill...

2024-11-24 18:47

ye a gesture of robbing the other teams of millions of dollars and throwing them all at big because they have to start the competition against flyquest rather than g2, what ever will they do to recover from this!!!

2024-11-25 13:14

I never said giving them the revenue from other teams. What I meant was that Valve would drop their margin to 0% ONLY for BIG instead of the traditional 50/50 split, but whatever Seems like a whole clown fiesta between Valve and Perfect World

2024-11-25 19:14

It’s Perfect World’s fault that they did not follow the rules from Valve’s rulebook. If anything it’s Perfect World who should make it up to BIG.

2024-11-24 20:58

bomboclaat

Volvo wtf

Rare Valve W

Good responsibility taking, they admitted their mistake and we should stop hating them for every thing that happens

2024-11-24 17:25

6 replies

They took 0 responsibility. Their tweet is just another excuse and They did nothing for BIG.

2024-11-24 18:00

what they should do for BIG? they apologize for not FIXING the rule earlier, big should never been in legend, all that happened its just a fake hope given for big, but valve didn't took anyting from them

2024-11-24 18:21

To bring back the previous rule and let BIG and 3DMAX go to the elimination stage. They can took that apology and throw it to the trashcan because it has no use and it's another excuse.

okay ur just dumb, it never was a previous rule, the correct rule, the previous rule (copenhagen) was using rvr, but I gues u just stupid dumb and there is no need to have conversation with you anyway

2024-11-24 18:42

It doesn't matter, they could make an exception and keep it what it was but you're too stupid and shill and you think there was no way. They easily can brainwash naive people like you who tries so hard to be "fair" Compensate for BIG instead of victimizing yourself Valve. That's how you take responsibility, it's an excuse rn.

2024-11-24 20:12

So far in the competition with all those things being communicated by the TO's already u can't just say sorry it was all a rouse and half of the matches were completely pointless even tho it is part of the biggest event in counter strike. No one would have really minded if we kept on going for the sake of integrity and not throw shit in the fan to be correct when it harms more than it does good in that case

2024-11-26 07:18

BIG robbed

fr. 3Dmax, too. theu worked their way through with a solid 3:0 and that performance should be acknowledged in on way or another. Cant be that a team spirit goes 3:2 and is seeded above 3:0 and 3:1 teams !?!

4:2 they won more matches

2024-11-24 17:54

3dmax in legends, some team just get easier matchups and qualify, it doesn't mean that they should be placed higher just because they were luckier.

2024-11-24 18:23

that has some logic behind, but at the same time, why do we even have RMR then? just invite the top 24 ranked teams, which is what valve is doing starting next year cause otherwise the only fair way would be everyone playing against everyone, like a league

2024-11-24 20:02

It's their fault for not farming gambling/oil tournaments

2024-11-24 22:19

> "For our part, we certainly take responsibility for not identifying the issue and correcting the ruleset much earlier in the process." fair enough

2024-11-24 17:26

Actually shocking

2024-11-24 17:28

As usual, valve doing the absolute bare minimum effort and not even bothering to double-check. Clown company

yeah I mean it never made sense why the valve rankings were used in Copenhagen but not in this one. People want to say they only changed it after 3DMAX and BIG qualified but I actually think it was an accident

2024-11-24 17:29

But why they only did something days AFTER group B!!!

2024-11-24 18:05

the community have been raising that matter since the asia RMR started and valve only did something about it after big and 3dmax qualified, weeks after lots of people raising concerns about that, it's just pretty hard to believe

2024-11-24 20:04

They noticed it right when they were about to update the VRS and determine the Elimination stage teams. That was a mistake, no more, no less. Also, it pretty much didn’t influence anything apart from 1 team.

2024-11-24 21:06

it influenced big, spirit, and also g2 and heroic could have not qualified to the elim stage and vp could have valve is completely in the wrong here, first to not see that the rules were incorrect, then by not listening to the community (including the teams playing the rmrs), then by pretty much not following the rmrs (they would've noticed the error a long time ago) then by not releasing a public statement about the changes mid rmr (hltv had to leak it) and now for this lame response

2024-11-24 21:16

They knew about the misscommunictaion way before BIG and 3dmax went 3-0. They probably assumed it wouldn't be an issue and just went with it. But when they realised it's an issue for them, then they went public and changed it.

2024-11-24 21:05

Last major in China, thanks

2024-11-24 17:30

np, go watch pewdiepie, swedish pro

2024-11-24 17:32

Says the FakeFlagger

2024-11-24 17:47

FakeFlagger Pewdiepie fan

2024-11-24 17:59

take some meds dont be so mean or be kind

it doesnt even matter anyway at this point

I can imagine already players after the final match waiting if Valve approves the winner or not.

"So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the major" This says it all, they give a shit about competitiveness and teams deserving their spot, they just want the show, the big names, nothing else. More than ever before, fuck valve, you dont deserve to have cs in your hands

2024-11-24 17:31

when valve removed open qualifiers, it removed 99% of the competition. I understand they wanted to eliminate no namers qualifying for major and get rid of cheaters, and that you want teams with points, who have won tournaments, but you also remove open qualifiers from every BLAST, PGL, ESL, IEM tournament.

2024-11-24 17:37

After Paris, there was a whole discussion on every HLTV thread and Counter Strike podcast about how that major could be invalid because there were too many upsets. This change is directly because of the community getting so riled up about the big names not showing up. They don't give a fuck about who qualifies, I assure you. They are just trying to do things to make the community happy. What they don't realize is everyone will just find a new reason to hate Valve forever.

The Copenhagen system is much better at giving teams the spots "deserve", this is much better than the shitshow that was Paris. Why should fluking a bo1 and then getting easy matchups(Big in this RMR) mean that they "deserve" that spot over a team that has won tier 1 tournaments this season and placed consistently high in them?

2024-11-24 18:04

then just remove the bo1 matches and do it bo3, but dont screw over teams that give everything to be on the major

2024-11-24 18:14

no its worse system to use vrs for this tournament, BUT its unfair to other regions, if G2 Vitality Spirit suddenly plays in the opening stage because this stage decided who makes the top16 and how many region slots your region gets to the next major. so it would be unfair to other regions if top eu teams are also able to play this stage.

2024-11-24 19:38

No problem Valve. Now give us good stickers and everybody is happy!

Unlucko for big, hopefully they will make it to legend stage

"5 to 8 invites: 16 team Swiss bracket Best of 3: Decider matches (e.g., matches where a team reaches their third win or third loss). At times, it will be necessary to determine Opening or Elimination Stage invitations among a group of teams with identical records. In that case the following process should be used to separate them: [...]" "Seeding Pre-event Seeding Coming into the event, all 24 teams are sorted based on their current Regional Standing, and assigned to a slot corresponding to the Next Major Slot." Could someone please explain to me how these to points can coexist in the official rulebook (even for the Copenhagen Major iirc)?

No! And exactly THIS is the major fault Valve should also take responsibility for - not only for the (suspicious) "miscommunication". A point many seem to overlook... Because if it would've been only miscommunication (and a doubtful or at least very bad timing to correct this) why is the rulebook ambiguous? If pre-event-seeding is based on (and only on) VRS, there is no need to describe the process to "determine Opening or Elimination Stage invitations among a group of teams with identical records". Apparently a leftover from the time before Copenhagen and an argument, why PW's rules could also be considered as being in accordance with the rulebook.

2024-11-24 19:15

you can't spell Valve without debacle

2024-11-24 17:36

So they can change the rules after the matches were played and say they "take accountability", then its fine?

They enforced the correct rules.

2024-11-24 17:38

They didn't change anything, these rules have existed for over a year now

Valve knows Paris major was fluke. Vitality fluke winners.

yeah whatever just never make a major in Asia ever again.

2024-11-24 17:39

just revert to old ranking system and scrap the valve ranking system .

It's stupid to make a qualification event where your performance means nothing. Valve ranking should have only been about seeding, never about getting past a stage in the major. Imagine the new UCL establishing what 8 teams get a by using the UEFA ranking instead of the result achieved on group stage.

2024-11-24 17:44

It does mean something. You earn a spot at the Major.

2024-11-24 17:55

Obviously, I was speaking about "performance while qualifying". No need to be that dense.

2024-11-24 19:00

Still a dick move. Fuck you valve

Is there a lawsuit brewing? I would be extremaly disapointed if i were BIG

Valve could decide right now to cancel the major entirely and nobody could do anything about it. They have all the power in this situation and there is little if any legal recourse possible for teams.

2024-11-24 17:52

lmao yeah sure BIG should totally sue Valve then the whole org gets permabanned from competing in all Valve games

2024-11-24 19:17

Who is this "valve"? We don't have a spokeperson or face that represent cs. Gaben maybe the face of valve and the yoshi? Guy is face of dota and deadlock but cs? It's nobody.

2024-11-24 17:48

lol unbelievable, even valve admit something

"So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the Major." they really think spirit, maybe the worst team to qualify, are better than 3dmax or big? is that for real? theyre really just calling other teams shit

2024-11-24 17:49

8 replies

pathetic baiter

donk? i agree, baits his whole team to pad his stats then is surprised when he barely scrapes through the rmr

2024-11-24 18:43

show me when bug and 3dmax won vs spirit pathetic

2024-11-24 18:45

please tell which of these is more impressive to you imgur.com/a/yKZkvE4 imgur.com/a/iXfiDWq do you think that first results page is that of a top 1 player? that of a team deserving to have the rules changed just for them to skip a stage due to their supposed prestige?

2024-11-24 18:51

bo1 doesn't matter

2024-11-24 18:52

delusional, keep coping

2024-11-24 18:53

I will not continue, I just know that you are pathetic baiter who can't even show his real flag bb pathetic

2024-11-24 18:54

you think im not north american? hahahahahaha are you saying im so smart it seems like i have eu education? thanks bro <3

2024-11-24 18:56

oh shut up if g2 or spirit went 3-0 they wouldnt have done jack sh1t. they only did this because they already put their money on spirit/g2 winning the major and were too scared to see one of them not making the stage.

"So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the Major." them actually saying this is insane, they literally saw 3DMAX beating G2 and went “hell no”

2024-11-24 18:01

corps being shitty in 2024 oh no

2024-11-24 18:12

I feel bad for my Jerman friends, not professional at all from Valve, they should compensate for their mistake

2024-11-24 17:56

Excuses, fix it for BIG and 3DMAX or shaddap Valve.

2024-11-24 17:57

"So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the Major." Better for who? Better for bettors and betting site, ofc!!!!

UNFORTUNATE ??? That wasn't unfortunate, it was absolutely embarrassing, unprofessional and incompetent. And those are the nicest words I can think of. “So we opted to trade some frustration now with having better matchups at the Major.” In other words, it's more important to us that the top teams are in the Major so that the event generates more money than that teams that have qualified for it through sporting means are there. Great statement.

2024-11-24 18:09

charms show valve reality, added for no reason

2024-11-24 18:36

New system = new pick'em ?

2024-11-24 18:08

Sooo does that mean the teams that are in 8th place for Europe may now be in the Majors?

"For our part, we certainly take responsibility for not identifying the issue and correcting the ruleset much earlier in the process." And how will that "certainly take responsibility" look like. Will you send a Card?

2024-11-24 18:10

I asked myself exactly the same question. Well then Valve. Tell us what this responsibility looks like. We hear...

Make Volvo Great Again 🙏

2024-11-24 18:13

Also thanks for new name, Valve.

valve really? ohh perfect world not using the new rules let ask them to stop the tournament mid way and apply new rule valve come on , you knew this is happening since rmr A but u started worrying as soon big 3dmax 3-0 esport is not real sport for this reason

2024-11-24 18:35

Ok now give ef a second chance in the major

Its still stupid. The tourney follows the seeding for the first matches, giving the better teams easier opponents. From there on, it should be a normal tournament like the RMR A in Shanghai in the first place. BIG and 3dmax earned there spots for winning 3 games in a row, over and out. Now spirit will be rewarded for a crapy RMR as heroic and G2....sorry, this is just not fair.

Vuck Falve

people should really read before complaining about valve. It was literally stated in the rulebook prior to event, that it would be determined by valve regional ranking. Half way through the event, they found Perfect World not to be going by that rule. Valve, although took some blame, literally did fucking nothing but step in and fixed Perfect worlds fuckup.

2024-11-24 18:44

Also Valve should really read before;) #139

2024-11-24 19:32

What they did wrong is that they don't even follow the RMRs. If they did, they would have noticed this before the RMRs even started.. or at the latest, in the beginning of the RMRs. Valve should obviously have someone supervise the event, preferably at location.

2024-11-24 19:41

it was literally said in the PW rulebook that it wasn't gonna be by the ranking. Valve rulebook is a guide to TO's, the real rules are the ones released by the TO This was not unnoticed tho, the community have been openly talking about this for some time and Valve did nothing until BIG and 3DMax qualified

cancel bo1 and random t2-3 teams like BuG, 3dmax, P0ssion, will never be in the major.

2024-11-24 18:48

They are already doing that. RMRs won't happen anymore from 2025 onward. These last ones were largely supposed to be ceremonial which is why Valve stepped in mid event to stop the tie breaker matches. Valve ranking will determine all.

2024-11-24 20:44

I forgave the valve, and I'm sure the Germans do too

2024-11-24 19:01

#FREEBIG #FREE3DMAX #GABENBIGFATBULLY #PROTEST #BOYCOTT #VIVALARÉSISTANCE

VALVE said it would take responsibility, but did not say how to take responsibility, which is an excuse

2024-11-24 19:50

LOL I was correct. People get mad for no reason, these rules have existed since Copenhagen Major and Valve forgot to enforce them in this instance. Cool that they take responsibility, but we haven’t seen any apologies from Perfect World yet.

2024-11-24 20:49

unlucko

2024-11-24 21:20

They just lost themselves a customer

2024-11-24 21:32

Theories about match manipulation/fixing has circle in most normal mainstream sports. Good to see that Esports is not beating the allegation, keeping the tradition alive. Joking aside, this will problably go down as one of Valve's most controversial take ever. 3DMax, Big, Valve hates you.

2024-11-24 21:46

bro I was so freaking confused about what's going on....RMR A was different than B? why? what? how? did I miss something? there surely was a 4th place decider, why there is no 4th place decider on RMR B? at least now I understand that's I'm only quite stupid and not completely stupid. good to know.

2024-11-24 22:08

The mid-RMR change of rule also cancels the result of 4th decider of RMR A. Although, that makes no difference to A groups. The main reason is somehow they want to use the VRS system to decide legendary stage at 90% progress of RMR

2024-11-25 03:39

yeah the main thing that so confused me was that in RMR A I was sure that it wrote on hltv which team goes where, and then it changed to just qualified for the major, it's not something that happens often so I thought I just didn't remember right.

2024-11-25 07:35

You f*cked up, own your mistake and say you'll do better next time. Doing this bs now is just wrong, your excuse doesn't matter tbh.

2024-11-24 22:17

The are out of touch need someone dedicated for this shit

2024-11-25 02:58

In my sight, the Paris major didn't rise unexpected legendary groups. The dark horse teams made themselves win the rounds to the champion stage.

2024-11-25 03:34

Just asking, but can we retroactively remove all B01 results and redo things properly..?

2024-11-25 04:41

I think they're both at fault. Weren't there issues with translation as well between rulebooks? +1 for Valve at least communicating they made an error.

2024-11-25 07:07

when it comes out PICK’EM COIN for MAJOR ?

2024-11-25 14:09

Fair enough and all, but how could it happen that Valve only noticed after teams went already 3-0? Don't they have their own personal at the tournament to watch and make sure everything follows their rules?

2024-11-25 23:07