A look at changing the map pool

Following criticism directed at Valve for their decisions regarding the map pool at ESL One Cologne, we look at how they could do it differently in the future.

Valve has been criticized by plenty of top players via their Twitter accounts and on reddit. We also put out a short article with opinions of various top players about the change.

The supporters of Valve's decision seem to agree this is the only way to introduce new maps, and it is the players' fault for not accepting them. In general, it's been a very controversial issue.

It's also worth pointing out that all these changes - first to de_mirage and non _se maps, and then adding de_cobblestone and de_overpass while changing the veto system - have been forced by Valve, not by ESL or other organizers.

Considering our take on the integrity of tournaments being the number one priority, we disagree with Valve's approach. Therefore, we have decided to suggest alternatives.


Fifflaren had a rare positive outlook on the new maps 


Do we even need new maps?

Before we delve into our suggestions for introducing new maps, one has to wonder, is there even a problem in the first place? Is this something that needs fixing? Is there another way around it? Are people making a mountain out of a molehill?

It is safe to say the standard five map pool that Valve has previously enforced at their events isn't working, as we've pointed out in articles after EMS One Katowice and ESEA Invite Season 16 Global Finals. The map balance simply isn't there. However, it hasn't always been that way, and it still isn't when seven maps are used in the pool.

We saw seven maps played at ESEA Invite Season 16 Global Finals at the end of June, and the split among all maps was fairly good. Obviously with such a large map pool some maps, namely de_train and de_nuke, will gain less traction than others, but overall we were definitely headed in the right direction with de_cache and de_season played more than any map aside from de_inferno.

Interestingly enough, this issue is partly Valve's fault in the first place. Many events including SLTV StarSeries, ESWC and RC EMS One were using the seven map pool a year ago - after agreeing to it as a group - when de_inferno wasn't dominating every tournament. Old version de_mirage_go was also much more popular than Valve's edition; in fact it used to be the most popular map among top teams.

Once Valve forced everyone to switch to the non _se versions of the standard maps, the split among all maps played got worse, and forcing de_mirage on us also hurt. I think there is an argument for this entire problem being caused by Valve in the first place, which is why it is all the more important they at least fix it in the right manner instead of forcing more change on the scene.

It also makes sense that nearly all event organizers instantly followed suit as Valve told DreamHack and ESL what maps to use, as everyone is obviously doing what's possible to try to gain a piece of the $250,000 events. So far only those two have been awarded the funds, but nearly everyone, except for ESEA, have done exactly what Valve has wanted.

Seeing as Valve won't let us go back to the _se maps, best we can hope for is they make changes to de_mirage - some ideas were posted online last weekend - and improve de_train, which is rumoured to be happening as we speak. They should also do their best to include the new version of de_season, which Shawn "FMPONE" Snelling is working on, in the next Operation update.

You can argue adding more maps is catering to the wrong audience. The fans of Counter-Strike who have been around for a long time certainly aren't bored of the standard maps, and I think a main factor in newer players being bored is their lack of understanding of the meta-game. If it all looks the same to you, it's probably because you haven't been taught to notice the subtle differences that make CS exciting. How do we improve that? Better casting.

If events started using more expert commentators instead of pairing play-by-play casters together so often, the fan base would learn more about the strategic aspect of Counter-Strike, and start embracing the current maps more. Asking for new maps means you're bored of the game and want change, period. I don't think most people need to be bored of the game; they simply don't realize all the things that are changing constantly.

Still, that is not realistic for now. The community who are pro-new maps still want the new maps, regardless of the reason, and it is clear Valve intend to keep them happy. So here is where this article kicks in. Let's take a look and what they should have done differently, and what they can still do better in the future. Here are our suggestions.


Map balance was ruined once Valve enforced their map rotation last fall 


How to introduce the new maps?

The ideal way to introduce new maps depends on your goals with them. If you want them to be tested, which means you want teams to practice them and then actually play matches on them, you might want to look into places where you can force those maps to be played. That includes leagues with weekly matches, such as ESEA League, and small tournaments, such as Caseking of The Hill, where you could pre-determine the map for each round of play.

Ideally you would give promising maps - which could be determined by pros, via matchmaking popularity, a fan vote, or any other kind of measure - a chance in those, and the ones that players like, fans enjoy watching and seem to work well in a competitive environment would then get picked on for tournaments. The cycle would continue, and ultimately you could replace some of the current maps in the pool by the newcomers.

Considering Caseking of The Hill tournaments currently have a thousand euros each in prizes, it is not inconceivable to think they would add a pre-determined round featuring de_overpass and de_cobblestone in exchange to Valve donating another grand into their prize purse. That is a mere rounding error for a plus $3,000,000,000 company, and generally keeping your customers happy should be worth spending a little money here and there.

ESEA League would be an optimal suitor because they have pre-determined maps played on a weekly basis on all levels of competition. If Valve put in some money to convince ESEA to use a new map in one week of play, they would have hundreds of matches of data to look through from games that are much more competitive than what matchmaking produces. Let's not forget about all the practices games those teams would play, either.

The league approach makes sense because it means every team will be playing those maps, and considering those wins can make or break a team's hopes of traveling to the global finals in Dallas, it would make little sense for teams to not practice them. Another great target would be SLTV StarSeries, but it would require them to change their format by eliminating the map veto process and installing a pre-determined rotation.

This would be a great way to figure out which maps are good, and which maps aren't, while also giving teams enough time to practice them. In fact, Valve could likely finance these map runs by actually running some similar weapon skin projects that FACEIT lucked into, that allowed them to finance their Spring League. If there is will, there is a way. We just need Valve to summon that will.


ESEA could ease new maps into tournament play 

 

How can Valve decide which maps to add?

First of all whoever actually gets to talk to Valve needs to tell them their matchmaking statistics must be shredded the second they start thinking about map pools at the $250,000 majors that have become the backbone of CS:GO's competitive community. Those statistics are surely great for a lot of other things, and for improving matchmaking games - but for the professional scene's adjustment they do not work.

Seeing how surprised just about everyone in the professional community was regarding the decision to add de_cobblestone an de_overpass, it is clear Valve did not consult them whatsoever when it came to this decision. That is a mistake. I don't suggest the pro players themselves should decide it completely either - seeing as that would ignore all the fans - but consulting no one is the worst possible course of action. 

As usual, there is a middle ground to be found, and it ties in with our previous point on how to introduce new maps. If we do that in a smart manner, it really won't make that big of a difference whether Valve chooses poorly or doesn't consult the right people on the new maps. Their quality will be determined by players, and the best ones will get the nod for bigger tournaments, where it truly matters which maps are played, and which are not.

If a map turns out not to be suited for competition or disliked by a majority of players, we can simply let it be forgotten and move on to the next one. There are plenty of mapmakers out there, and if they knew their maps had a legitimate chance of getting picked up through the system outlined above, they should be even more motivated to try to make the best maps possible. The key here is eliminating randomness at the biggest stages.

It makes no sense to gamble on untested maps like Valve are doing at ESL One Cologne, when they could so easily avoid all of it. Their image isn't exactly shiny from all the unpopular decision they've had to make, and someday someone at the company will stop being stubborn and realize how little effort and planning it would take to be loved by the community. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.


Many suggest de_crown as a potential new map for tournaments 

 

What part does the veto system play?

The veto system may be the most underrated part of this equation. Often overlooked, a weak veto system alone can take away everything gained from introducing new maps. ESL's new system where teams remove one map each before picking theirs, followed by one more removal by each before a random draw will determine the decider, is a step in the right direction, but it goes too far. It compromises the tournament's integrity.

With a seven map pool and only one removal before teams pick their maps, it is important teams can also affect what map is going to be the decider in the series. When only one map is removed per team, it means they will have to practice six maps - more than you can realistically be strong on at any given time - and most of the time there will be clear favorites in each of the first two maps. Even among top teams there are always maps you're very strong on, and the other team is weaker on.

If the first two maps are likely to be split, the decider of the series will, naturally, be the most important map of the series. Wouldn't it then make sense to give the players, who sacrifice months of their life to prepare for these tournaments, some control over the outcome? Valve seemingly doesn't think so. With three maps left, there is a good chance each team has a map they would rather not play, and drawing that can be a death sentence.

Virtus.pro's Wiktor "TaZ" Wojtas tweeted saying he expects the same maps to be played, only the random third map draw will make the outcome more random. Joona "natu" Leppänen pointed out via Twitter no team has been seen practicing the two new maps - de_cobblestone and de_overpass  - though Anders Blume claimed differently on RoomOnFire. It remains to be seen if these maps will be played at all in Cologne, and who will gain the most from their additions.

The best-of-three system isn't actually half bad in comparison to the group stage format. In the best-of-one matches each team removes two maps, and the sole map played will then be randomly drawn from the three remaining ones. That can make results very random - much more so than in the playoffs - and seeing as it could knock teams out very early, it is even more important. For teams on the verge of advancing, their tournament life can now be decided by a coin toss.

I stand by the two map selection processes I outlined in my article last month, and based on conversations with a number of players who actually compete in these tournaments they seem like solid choices. It remains to be seen whether Valve will listen in the future and potentially make a change, or if seeing de_inferno played a few times less at this cost is worth it to them. To me, integrity of the tournament is, and always should be, priority number one.


TaZ thinks the new changes will randomize results 

 

These are just a few quick ideas on how Valve could improve the process of adding maps in the future in order to keep the casual and hardcore fans and players happy.

Certainly there are more ways to go about it and we could discuss these in more depth as well. Hopefully in the future Valve will do that, instead of coming out with these changes out of the blue.

Follow HLTV.org's @lurppis_ on Twitter.

#1
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States monsterzero
n1
2014-07-17 18:42
0
5 replies
#97
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bosnia and Herzegovina JayC
we need tuscan fore sure :)
2014-07-17 22:56
0
1 reply
#107
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Norway Simonator93
and <3aztec<3 for progamers tournament <3
2014-07-17 23:38
0
#134
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil kadotA
We Want Aztec remaker... D:
2014-07-18 07:40
0
1 reply
#180
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States monsterzero
+1
2014-07-18 18:52
0
#192
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Czech Republic Thebadgur
I'm sorry but as a competitive Counter Strike player you should be able to compete on any map (good maps not shitty made ones). Yes a notice should be given for "next seasons maps" but really why should players have a say in that matter ? They will just pick the most advantageous option for their self no matter.
2014-07-20 09:29
0
#2
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World HLTVWizard
Tuscan 2020
2014-07-17 18:42
0
10 replies
#20
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal daris
+1
2014-07-17 18:57
0
#25
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Germany lpSykl
Preorder bonus for Half-Life 3
2014-07-17 19:07
0
3 replies
#58
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
Lol i dont know why i found this that funny
2014-07-17 20:10
0
#177
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
SpawN | 
Slovakia mBust3r
hahahaha
2014-07-18 14:23
0
#185
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Other Frizaa
LOL
2014-07-19 00:49
0
#32
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania maklaudas
+1 brute is fag srsly
2014-07-17 19:18
0
1 reply
#120
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Netherlands JUNG13
Go and help him by funding his work, or shut your mouth
2014-07-18 03:34
0
Tuscan 420
2014-07-17 23:02
0
1 reply
yeeee
2014-07-18 23:35
0
#121
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Morocco zeisenberg
+1
2014-07-18 04:15
0
#3
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden MoggeNNN
n3
2014-07-17 18:43
0
#4
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Ex6TenZ | 
Czech Republic kRUGHER1337
nuh
2014-07-17 18:43
0
expected
2014-07-17 18:43
0
#6
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
f0rest | 
Sweden daB123
WTB Tuscan :(
2014-07-17 18:44
0
#7
Faceit premium user Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
arch | 
Ukraine arch
new maps r shit
2014-07-17 18:45
0
#8
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Ukraine iMaTa
no tuscan no party
2014-07-17 18:45
0
1 reply
#31
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Czech Republic _LuBoss_
+1
2014-07-17 19:15
0
#9
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom grund
I hope that they aren't played at all @ EMS, and Valve can fucking cry.
2014-07-17 18:45
0
1 reply
#140
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
they will be played as NaVi now got 3 maps to ban :DDD
2014-07-18 08:31
0
#11
Faceit premium user Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal awkhz
overgrown for competitive!!!!!!!!
2014-07-17 18:49
0
7 replies
#37
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
markeloff | 
Ireland mibaRo
castle for competitive!!!
2014-07-17 19:23
0
4 replies
#124
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia exitone
de_rush for competitive!!!
2014-07-18 04:53
0
3 replies
#137
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Finland Jyubei
insertion for competetive!!!!!!!
2014-07-18 08:19
0
2 replies
#172
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United Kingdom RedFoxx
seaside for competitive!!!!!
2014-07-18 13:17
0
1 reply
#178
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Denmark Blankeh
cs_maps for competitive!
2014-07-18 15:36
0
#47
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Poland rvT
+1
2014-07-17 19:39
0
Overgrown actually is the only map from the operation which could be played competitively. And it's pretty even for both sides, which is the root of this whole dilemma here isn't it?
2014-07-18 16:01
0
#12
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
device | 
Greece JeTSlug
Why do they not add Season to the official map pool and cache ?! This two maps are for competitive, and maps like Overpass or Cobble are like fy_ maps..
2014-07-17 18:49
0
14 replies
FYI cache was added...
2014-07-17 18:53
0
2 replies
#70
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
device | 
Greece JeTSlug
It was not added t the map pool of ESl or DH
2014-07-17 20:53
0
1 reply
If you mean ESL One then yes, it was.
2014-07-17 21:02
0
#18
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Poland rvT
lets w8 for fmpone remake of season mapcore.org/topic/17390-what-im-working-..
2014-07-17 18:58
0
10 replies
#138
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Finland Jyubei
Whoa, season looks beautiful.
2014-07-18 08:23
0
9 replies
#141
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
IT FUCKING LOOKS LIKE WE'RE RUNNING AROUND IN POISON IVY'S HOUSE
2014-07-18 08:33
0
8 replies
#142
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Finland Jyubei
Who?
2014-07-18 08:35
0
7 replies
#147
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
Did you get born after 2000?
2014-07-18 09:03
0
5 replies
#150
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Finland Jyubei
No, I just don't read shit comics. :)
2014-07-18 09:19
0
4 replies
#152
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
You call Batman shit comics?
2014-07-18 09:41
0
3 replies
#154
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Finland Jyubei
Yes!
2014-07-18 09:51
0
2 replies
#160
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
so what is good comics?
2014-07-18 11:14
0
1 reply
#191
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Finland Jyubei
Anything not american.
2014-07-19 18:19
0
#156
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Japan tenshi
2014-07-18 10:03
0
#14
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium JerCkysMini0n
good read , i agree on it all tbh valve did make very poor decisions not even letting pro's get a word said in before they considered a change to put in certain maps for the tournament they just randomly did it and i agree that their approach is really messed up as u pointed out they could ask esea to run it for a week or so which would give them a ton of data to go off from.
2014-07-17 18:51
0
#15
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Ukraine petruska
nice move valve,all players fuck tuscan,we realy need this sh##t!
2014-07-17 18:52
0
#17
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Latvia Senotajs
Tuscan is much better than overpass and that other one.
2014-07-17 18:55
0
#19
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Spain Khebit
tl;dr "hurr everything Valve does is bad, everything slightly 1.6-like is good without questions!"
2014-07-17 18:57
0
12 replies
tl;dr of your comment: "i'm an imbecile".
2014-07-17 19:11
0
#42
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World klekk
Agreed.
2014-07-17 19:44
0
#59
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
Its lurpis he dislikes valve and cs go its rare to ever see him praise valve or cs go.
2014-07-17 20:11
0
8 replies
#80
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland 2D&#361;S
U are the pure cancer of cs:go community but perfect brainless customers for valve, GZ. once again thooorin was right. SE maps + cache tuscan and here you fucking go 7 map pool of good maps. How the fuck you can stand treatment like this when you give so much money for valve, and all what it does for you is fucking you in the ass. Thoorin counter-points episode 1 was good, watch it, moron.
2014-07-17 21:17
0
7 replies
#111
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
Pure cancer to cs go? No you pure cancer of cs go people that are not open minded and willing to change unlike you i do not bitch about stuff that isnt worth bitching about instead i embrace the change cause i like change its refreshing . I said my statement above because its true even if valve does something right lurppis knocks it. If you are mad about something which you clearly are go deal with it with yourself because i am not willing to indulge your stupidity and just so you know i did watch counter points it was good. But did it change my opinion no. I for one am excited for the games new map pool. And yet I am the toxic one? Lol you are the one cursing at me angry for no reason going crazy abiut change.
2014-07-17 23:57
0
6 replies
#129
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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United States lurppis
i don't knock good things valve do, and i don't knock anything for no reason, period. there's a few thousand words up there explaining why what they did was wrong and shouldn't have been done, but expecting you to read them would have been too much.
2014-07-18 07:19
0
5 replies
#131
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
Didnt mean to offend i did read them and i do enjoy your articles, but thats just my opinion on how you are
2014-07-18 07:28
0
4 replies
#132
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
most cs players love valve like the people in abusive relationships love their significant others. it's clearly tough to admit there's a problem.
2014-07-18 07:33
0
3 replies
#133
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
There is some truth there of course but i also feel like has valve also tried to correct their wrongs this time byactually making some significant changes to overpass and some changes to cobble strone which i feel like should be mentioned in the article because i am interested how your take on the changes not necessarily how late the changes were made but the fact that valve changed things because of cotton and steel and if these changes can actually make overpass a viable map or a better one at least
2014-07-18 07:39
0
1 reply
#135
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
i wouldn't want them to do any changes to the maps, no matter how good, with four weeks left before a major. keep them how they are, and learn from this going forward.
2014-07-18 07:49
0
#167
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Australia tommytoan
completely agree. Especially on reddit i find this big circlejerk attitude towards csgo dev and valve when the reality is they have been incredibly average and quite bad in areas with csgo's execution. So much would be fixed if they just talked with the community and took advantage of pro players willingness to help, for free.
2014-07-18 12:19
0
"I didn't even read the article" -Khebit
2014-07-17 21:39
0
#21
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal dixy48
Good read 10/10, until season and tuscan dont get added into official Valve servers we most likely not see them in a major imo.
2014-07-17 19:01
0
#22
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands tyr010
some extra maps wouldnt hurt but we dont need shit maps shoved up our ass.. season/tuscan/russka>>>>>>cobble/overpass and shit like that
2014-07-17 19:01
0
#23
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World bjc_sp
"If events started using more expert commentators instead of pairing play-by-play casters together so often" -Anders, Semmler Duo Kappa
2014-07-17 19:01
0
3 replies
#34
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania maklaudas
yeah shots fired
2014-07-17 19:18
0
#44
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World klekk
He probably wanted to put in an ad for himself as expert-commentator :D
2014-07-17 19:37
0
#75
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Portugal dixy48
I think he meant like in DH, they had 2 casters + commentators.
2014-07-17 20:59
0
#24
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Germany lpSykl
The community could do all the work alone, but you have to let them do it!
2014-07-17 19:05
0
#26
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Uzbekistan floody!
hf 3 confirmed
2014-07-17 19:09
0
#28
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania maklaudas
Lurppis 1-0 Valve it is obvious that valve are bunch of idiots, csgo is about competition like every cs was but they cant understand this.
2014-07-17 19:13
0
1 reply
#89
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
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Lithuania jaska420
Nobody forces anyone, they can simply do whatever they want Simply ESL wants money and they want CS to grow, not to stagnate and die like 1.6 :) You either adapt or die like Titan
2014-07-17 21:50
0
#29
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
GuardiaN | 
Serbia NESi [w]
Valve add tuscan and stfu!
2014-07-17 19:13
0
#30
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland Peruno
I'd like to see some kind of agreement between the pros to not play cbble & overpass until those brainless devs from Valve learn the proper way to introduce maps to big tournaments.
2014-07-17 19:14
0
#33
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kMh-
Nice read there lurppis! d2 nuke mirage train inferno cache tuscan (when its done)is what the community wants, so listen valve and do something right xD
2014-07-17 19:18
0
1 reply
#143
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
The community want season,Russka and crown too so. It doesnt stop there but they got maps they could put in instead of Cobblestone and overpass. Tho could Overpass probably become a good comp map if just players got to learn how to play it and so on because it got nearly all elements a good map needs.
2014-07-18 08:47
0
#35
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Ireland officialflay
Valve please add Season, Tuscan as official maps to Active Duty an please get back Train to active duty and tournaments like this one. It is one of the best maps ever.
2014-07-17 19:19
0
#36
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Europe acid_drinker
DE_FORGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This map was played in ESL and others
2014-07-17 19:22
0
#38
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark asdfrofl
afaik tuscan is brutes map therefore their problem. Valve has nothing to do with tuscan, OKAY? this has been said 7 million times, l2read kiddos
2014-07-17 19:23
0
2 replies
#90
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland heppionkeppi
It wouldnt be the first time Valve would simply buy the rights for the map, and finish it. How much would it be, like 10k at its worst.
2014-07-17 21:51
0
1 reply
#92
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark asdfrofl
what you are doing is called speculating
2014-07-17 22:00
0
#41
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Elador
What does he mean by "play-by-play casters"?
2014-07-17 19:27
0
2 replies
#46
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World klekk
Casters who commentate about the action happening in the round. Expert commentators usually talk about why and how it happened afterwards.
2014-07-17 19:39
0
1 reply
#50
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Elador
I see. Thank you!
2014-07-17 19:43
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#43
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Poland rvT
Screw tuscan add calr_mill, obv both have different game style (mainly because tuscan is non existent right now)
2014-07-17 19:37
0
1 reply
#144
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
Toscan exist :DDDD
2014-07-18 08:49
0
#45
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Latvia rcher
de_dust2 de_inferno de_nuke de_train de_mirage de_cache de_season de_crown de_tuscan/de_mill de_overpass(upgraded or completely new map made) And thats it. No new maps for 2-3 years and these maps just rotate in 5 or 7 map pool tournaments. For best of 3 this vito is good and more interesting for viewers, but for bo1 just - "omg gl, hope random will give you something good."
2014-07-17 19:39
0
1 reply
#145
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
Just like when you open a case hahahha
2014-07-18 08:50
0
#48
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Poland 01337
de_contra de_tuscan de_season AMEN
2014-07-17 19:42
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#49
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
North America R9an
tl;dr
2014-07-17 19:43
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#51
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
NEO | 
Poland SzeregowiecPL
de_dust2 de_inferno de_nuke de_train de_mirage de_cache de_season de_tuscan AMEN
2014-07-17 19:43
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#52
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World RDno1
Overpass needs to be forced on the community. The new version is great due to the recent feedback spawned by the map pool changes and it can become even better. Cobblestone probably cannot be saved, but Overpass deserves a chance. It never would have gotten one because people are hell-bent on keeping older maps. Season and Tuscan are not exactly new either. And Tuscan isn't even out yet and probably will not be for years. I am excited to see the pros play new maps. As a spectator, I couldn't care less about the integrity of the tournament tbh. I just want to see some interesting plays and chances are high I'll see them on Overpass since I have never seen the pros play on it.
2014-07-17 19:45
0
7 replies
#76
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Russia andzie
This so many times.
2014-07-17 21:01
0
#78
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Brazil dkf
Finally some good reasoning.
2014-07-17 21:14
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#82
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland 2D&#361;S
Well what you gonna see if these maps are played is more weird rounds(csgo is full of them atleast online) and just pure randomness, and weak counter-tactics.. And thats what I dont want to see and don't care less about these maps. YOU WONT BE SEEING TOP LEVEL CS ON THOSE MAPS.
2014-07-17 21:27
0
1 reply
#127
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Azerbaijan Talley
true
2014-07-18 07:09
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#117
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World Antifrag
I don't wanna be rude, but Overpass simply looks like shit. Pretty much all competitive maps have their own environment and personality, but Overpass looks like a mix of all possible downtown scenery coming out of third class movies. Honestly, it has very little personality, there's no consistency throughout the map, it's just ugly and not enjoyable to play in it. They can try everything they want to make it more competitively viable, as long as they don't seriously update the looks of the map, it's still going to be shitty. De_crown has a lot more potential than de_overpass right now. As much as I'm excited to see changes in the map pool, I'd really love to see overpass fail miserably.
2014-07-18 02:03
0
2 replies
#155
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria FuRyVIRTUOSO
+1
2014-07-18 09:55
0
#166
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Australia tommytoan
i agree, tho i think in the past competitive maps havent had their own feel, some of those cpl maps blended in like fuck. I like valves take on textures in mirage, i like volacno and co texture effort on cache. Overpass tho has a generic regurgitation of textures to it. Like you said, dust2/inf/nuke/train, they all had different themes and accompanying texture sets and is why they were well liked.
2014-07-18 12:16
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#55
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States audioterminal
Basically just another article from Lurpis with his head stuck in the sand. The CS community is so slow to change and it's incredibly frustrating to watch. These same maps have been ran into the ground competitively, minus cache and season. Nobody would play other maps in the tournaments unless Valve forced them. I'm grateful, personally. I hope they continue to update the map pool because it's about time. Oh, wait, this cancerous community would like nuke, train, inferno, d2 for another decade. Depressing.
2014-07-17 19:58
0
4 replies
#60
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
Lurpis is sometimes bad for community because he is like the picture perfect cs player that hates any type of change. Even if its good he will find something wrong.
2014-07-17 20:14
0
2 replies
#85
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland 2D&#361;S
ONLY IF you knew something about him. And there has always come new maps but not ever forced to. U sure are perfect brainless customer for valve, pls depress and you know do what u gotta do while depressed ;). only if you could watch thooorins counter-points ep.1 but though you can't because he is too mean for you fucktards.
2014-07-17 21:36
0
1 reply
#112
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
If you are going to try to argue with me please learn to at least speak english correctly. And you just proved my point completely about the typical cs player that hates changes cya kid.
2014-07-17 23:59
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#64
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Finland siloquez
Yeah I agree 100%..
2014-07-17 20:23
0
#62
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Latvia shevijs
Valve is biggest joke of all gaming industry.
2014-07-17 20:17
0
4 replies
#83
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland 2D&#361;S
really going on that way atm.
2014-07-17 21:28
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#84
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World klekk
Why are you playing their games then? Just leave.
2014-07-17 21:35
0
1 reply
#146
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden FrostMage
Actually to say the company that does the game is shit is not the same thing as saying the game is shit
2014-07-18 08:58
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#139
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Finland Jyubei
Yes and EA is the way to go.
2014-07-18 08:24
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#63
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Finland siloquez
Was gonna type a big ass text here, but fuck it. I just want good new maps.
2014-07-17 20:22
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#66
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
France -huhu-
We always play same maps, again and again since like 10 years, we really need something fresh, Global Offensive brings fresh new graphism and gameplay with smokes/flash/molotovs.. and some new weapons, but new maps would be a really good step forward i think.. de_dust2 de_inferno de_nuke de_train de_mirage de_cache de_season de_crown de_tuscan de_overpass de_castle half are old like fvck, but still, lets "randomize" with the adds of like 5 or 6 new maps, and tournaments should make random choice for bo3.. well that would be interisting.. :D
2014-07-17 20:33
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#67
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
North America KyneS
+1 taz
2014-07-17 20:36
0
#68
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World weed33
LURPPIS! you are the best. Thank you for contributing to the CS and its development
2014-07-17 20:41
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#72
Faceit level 10 Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Lithuania MCMXCV
lurppis should really work at csgo_dev, the way you point out things and reasoning them is just great. Sadly VALVE doesn't listen that much to hltv and more to reddit.
2014-07-17 20:56
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#73
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States Rivitur
-fliff +Tuscan Kappa
2014-07-17 20:57
0
#86
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Turkey yeops
"though Anders Blume claimed differently on RoomOnFire." what did anders say exactly guys?
2014-07-17 21:38
0
#88
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada kaeincan
Something about this article just seems off to me. As some have stated before, there is the problem that Lurppis is a part of the community and quite embedded in it, thus more likely to have a strong bias coming into the article. One example that really stood out to me was the suggestion that Valve would partner up with ESEA for a map pool change. What motivation would Valve have to do that? ESEA runs a completely different ecosystem, and they charge for the privilege to join it. Imagine if every new player had to learn about a separate league, then pony up to be able to even join it. I do however agree that MM statistics are hardly indicative of organized team play on a map. They are useful for frag heatmaps and some pacing information, but hardly once you start playing a game with organized strats and spots. What I would propose, and I would hardly see this as likely, would be a system similar to what Blizzard runs for SC2. Teams are organized, and they MM together, then then ELO system ranks them collectively. Matching teams up with similar teams in their area that should come out with similar skill. You could expand this further, into a three month league system, with different tiers for matchmaking, prizes, etc. All accessible for every player and team. It may even do wonders for a North American scene that is generally too spread out to find decent competition. If implemented properly (a challenge in itself), it could offer regular high-quality matches, a common league for all teams, accurate statistics in a variety of situations, and be accessible for new and old players alike. But it would mean change. Look out.
2014-07-17 21:50
0
6 replies
#122
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World klekk
+1 dude
2014-07-18 04:23
0
#130
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
valve's motivation to partner up with someone (e.g. esea) is that it would get their new maps played and give everyone a chance to try them out. it's a lot easier - and cheaper - to pay a few grand for online tournaments to use your map than to host an entire league.
2014-07-18 07:23
0
4 replies
#187
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada kaeincan
I understand your reasoning, just not the convenient suggestion of a pay-only online league as the testing ground. A league with a weekly map pool would be a great suggestion, if it was already a part of the game. The suggestion of ESEA (which, full disclosure, you work for) is where the argument falls apart. Having good (read: not Match Making) statistics would come from having players of all levels playing in organized teams (again, not MM) on these maps with strats. Depending on a minor subset of the whole community comes rife with its own problems. Again, to be clear, the suggestion is a good one. The fact that it involves you mixing business with opinion/journalism is the problem. One of the awkward tightropes to walk when you run a major source of news and work in a pay-only league.
2014-07-19 07:46
0
3 replies
#189
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
it's my objective opinion that esea is the best fit, and i backed it up with solid arguments. if you have counter arguments aside from "you work for esea" i'd be glad to hear them. if not, don't blame me for working for esea - this is a subjective article, like all of them.
2014-07-19 11:53
0
2 replies
#193
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada kaeincan
Lurppis, I understand it's a sore point for you in the midst of this argument, but it would hardly be fair for you to call your opinion objective. It's a huge conflict of interest. As I laid out my points earlier, ESEA would hardly provide the kind of data you're looking for on a large scale. Despite what most of the HLTV community believes, CS:GO is a much larger beast than only competitive. ESEA would provide a small subset of data that would not necessarily be indicative of the broader pool. This does not mean that data would be worthless, however. Objectively, the best place for that data to be gathered would be an open league, as I stated. Something akin to SCII where there is a ranking system every 3-4 months, with prizes included. This could be used for seeding for tournaments, as teams jockey for position within regions and would also encourage newer players to team up and discover a new look at the game that MM does not encourage. The issue of the new maps speaks more to the community than it does to the maps themselves. I remember playing Prodigy/Cbble and more in 1.1+... maps that were severely one-sided, yet still a blast to play in organized teams. Both of the new maps have problems, but the joy of CS is that you get to play both sides. Meaning everyone is on the same playing field. I am genuinely baffled at the pure vitrol being levelled at the two maps. While I agree a $250,000 tournament may not be the best place to debut them, two months of warning should be enough to properly prepare for the tournament and show up knowing angle, flashes and strats. Enough of an educated response?
2014-07-20 18:47
0
1 reply
#194
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
my opinion can be objective even if there is a conflict of interest - i make little money from esea and i can actually separate the two. esea would provide actual competitive matches, which is what new maps need. valve already has matchmaking stats (which are good for nothing). people would never spend time playing an open league, so why waste time thinking about it? i'd rather focus on options that could at least in theory work. both prodigy and cbble were absolutely terrible maps. they were only fun because you were playing against other terrible teams who made enough mistakes to make them "fun".
2014-07-21 13:32
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#91
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland heppionkeppi
I know the best counter-argument is: "that these maps have been played for years". Guess what? They are played because they are the best maps, chosen by the community (as this new de_train was abandoned almost completely). Similarly de_azted and de_dust were shut out of clan scene. Even cbble was only played here and there. (what a boring matches to watch) This maps are good and they are played because they are good. Overpass might deserve a change, but new cobblestone is pretty much worthless. Not that I wouldnt watch pro players play it; once or twice. Then I would probably not want to see it.
2014-07-17 21:58
0
1 reply
#181
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil OutRaGeOUs
Aztec and Dust both proved to be trash maps for competition in the very early days of professional CS. But cbble? yeah it is big as fuck and with lot of useless areas, but it has yielded some very nice clashes, and those B site rushes? not boring at all. Used to love eoL strategies on this map and how to forget Spawn almost epic defuse? Truth is cbble died within cs evolution, though.
2014-07-18 20:24
0
#93
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Germany ayyy
in future: -overpass -cobblestone +tuscan +contra
2014-07-17 22:44
0
#94
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden -={NBNFMF}=-
Lurppis too negative
2014-07-17 22:48
0
#95
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States HyperionN
I personally would rather see inferno played from now until the end of time than see pros forced to play this pub trash at the biggest tournaments of the year. The worst part is that valve is basically bribing the organizers of long standing, respected tournaments--and with OUR money. Let them create and fund their own tournament if they really want to see these maps. #boycottesportskeys
2014-07-17 22:48
0
#96
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Brazil OutRaGeOUs
"That is a mere rounding error for a plus $3,000,000,000 company" Revenues don't mean cash flow, and Forbes article says that the ENTERPRISE VALUE is about 3 bi, conservatley. That doesn't mean that the equity value is 3 bi. Valve could be leveraged as fuck, swimming in debts, at the edge of bankruptcy, worthing, say, $1 to its shareholders, which would mean a thousand extra dollars metters. Just kitting, though. They can't be that bad running the company.
2014-07-17 22:53
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#102
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World nm:E
While I agree that the ESEA with it's weekly pre-determined map rotation is the obvious choice of a league out there to use for this approach, lurppis' ties to the ESEA make these articles kind of biased these days.
2014-07-17 23:04
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#103
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium Monu
we dont really need new maps, we need tuscan and a remake of almost every map so that we dont see inferno 75 times out of 100. and dont force a map on the community if they make it very clear that the old map is alot better (mirage / mirage_ce)
2014-07-17 23:11
0
4 replies
#106
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States HyperionN
What we really need are independently hosted fundraisers for each tournament, where we can give money that goes 100% to the prizepool with no strings attached. Then tournament organizers are freed from valve's rules and people can vote with their dollars by supporting the tournaments with the format they like.
2014-07-17 23:33
0
3 replies
#123
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada kaeincan
Great idea... until a tournament organizer runs off with all of the fundraising money. Doing it the way it is currently done at least brings accountability and integrity to the process.
2014-07-18 04:31
0
2 replies
#173
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States HyperionN
Well i probably wouldn't donate to say, an irongaming lan (lol). But I think we can trust a Dreamhack or ESWC caliber tournament. In respect to valve having accountability and integrity, I completely disagree. They take a small portion of the cash we give them, give it to whatever tournament they want, and enforce whatever backward ass rules and maps they think will boost the viewership and get more kids paying 15% tax on steam trades.
2014-07-18 13:35
0
1 reply
#186
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Canada kaeincan
It's working horribly for DOTA, as you can see.
2014-07-19 07:42
0
#104
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
MAJ3R | 
France PouletFurtif
"TaZ thinks the new changes will randomize results" ^enough said
2014-07-17 23:12
0
#105
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World pppzi
Why is fifflaren such a fifflaren!?
2014-07-17 23:26
0
#108
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bosnia and Herzegovina MILENKOLaka
The only map that we miss is de_tuscan. Best maps would be Imo: de_dust2 de_inferno de_nuke de_train (1.6 version) de_mirage de_cache de_season de_tuscan that means 8 great maps to play de_train should be as same as in 1.6, don't know what's problem with that?
2014-07-17 23:47
0
#109
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden Danzk1
I can listen to both sides for positive and negative on this matter. but this article was just so boring full whining that I couldn't even read half of it...
2014-07-17 23:49
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#113
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia hydra<3
de_tuscan and de_crown are infinitely better than cbble and overpass
2014-07-18 00:04
0
1 reply
#118
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States FiNNy-
de_tuscan isnt even released yet.
2014-07-18 02:34
0
#114
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Australia hydra<3
Valve should broadcast potential changes to the game before they make them and the community should have a say on what goes on. It shouldnt just be an open poll, they should ask the community which has a percentage of the vote, ask the pros, and decide themselves what is best for the game and the community that was founded around it
2014-07-18 00:13
0
Volvo
2014-07-18 01:20
0
#119
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
shox | 
United Kingdom dezmondo
this whole map thing is ridiculous. valve made a big mistake yet again by just forcing this map pool on us instead of even attempting to reach out to top teams and the community in general for feedback on what maps they want to be played competitively. the best 7 map pool the game could see in my opinion is: season (when added to an operation) tuscan (when released and added to an operation) train (when completely revised by volcano/fmpone) dust2 inferno nuke but it doesn't need to be limited to 7. we could have cache & another community choice in there aswell whether it be overpass or something new like fmpone's de_crown. or we could just have the 7 and mix it up every 6 months subbing 2 maps out for ones not used previous.
2014-07-18 02:40
0
#125
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Belgium dekatw
"The fans of Counter-Strike who have been around for a long time certainly aren't bored of the standard maps, and I think a main factor in newer players being bored is their lack of understanding of the meta-game. If it all looks the same to you, it's probably because you haven't been taught to notice the subtle differences that make CS exciting." I don't really agree on this. I've been playing CS actively on standard maps since like 2005 or something like that. I've played all the way through 2012 on 1.6. I know the basics and meta of all maps. That's the problem, I know them too well. So a new map here and there is really a breath of fresh air. When tuscan came up on 1.6 everyone, almost, loved it cause it was just new. More exciting stuff, new flash spots, new tactics that weren't already used 2000 times before. Here on GO, I really liked the first edition of mirage, mainly because it was the replica of the 1.6 version and felt really comfortable with it. I whined when the new edition came out but somehow got used to it. Cache is also new to me so it's interesting to discover new things here and there when I play it. It's been years since I last felt that on CS. About train tho, I think it's the worst edition of train ever. It's just so bad I'm really glad it's been dropped. I hope it gets a massive rework so we can see it live again like we used to on 1.6.
2014-07-18 06:23
0
1 reply
+1000
2014-07-18 09:13
0
#128
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
shox | 
United States generalmajorah
I feel like the reasoning behind the usual suspects in terms of maps (dust2, inferno) is because these huge tournaments are all single elim and all the teams are afraid of getting a map like Nuke or Train and losing the knife round. Give teams a chance to duke it out in case they get knocked into lower bracket and we'll probably see a lot more variety.
2014-07-18 07:12
0
#136
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Sweden kimbQ
contra..tuscan..season...
2014-07-18 07:53
0
1 reply
#175
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
mach0 | 
Hungary druGh1
+
2014-07-18 13:55
0
#148
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
United States Bibby
Miss cpl_strike and cpl_fire
2014-07-18 09:07
0
#151
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Israel groizk1Ng
would love to see tuscan or season
2014-07-18 09:19
0
#153
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Vietnam sgk_12m
Wall of text for me =__=
2014-07-18 09:42
0
#157
 | 
Hong Kong SHiFT^up
As long as Valve continues to be stubborn idiots who don't know anything about CS and rely completely on Matchmaking statistics only to make changes, CS:GO will not improve as a game.
2014-07-18 10:20
0
#158
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Israel FrekBoy
Return De_Train
2014-07-18 10:22
0
#159
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria FuRyVIRTUOSO
Overpass and this WANNABE_cbble maps are complete shit. Therefore not every change is for the better and the worst thing Valve could pull off is to try and force their way. When you have a good map, a really good one - you put it out there (in some leagues) so you could gather proper feedback and go from there. There's a difference between being against any changes and not agreeing with bad ones. Some kids in here try to make it out as like nobody in the community wants new and better maps. And some of you - if you're so sick of the trademark maps that made this game so popular and you also despise the whole community so much - maybe, just maybe.. you should go away. Currently, we're witnessing an absolute disastrous move by Valve right before a huge ESL Cologne. These new maps haven't just been slowly integrated in all leagues as good and competitive. No, no. Nobody have put any hours in these maps, nor does want to. 1) the maps aren't good for competitive (and never will be unless a major revamp) 2) nobody has played against anyone in any league on these maps. there's an absolute lack of experience on them. 3) there's no time to properly get ready on either of the maps, because you also got a bunch of other maps 4) nobody likes the new maps or wants to have anything to do with them How hard it was to add cache & season to: inferno dust 2 mirage nuke train .... and to have a great tournament? They could have put their time to improve train..
2014-07-18 10:36
0
#161
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Finland JxDGO
-overpass -cobblestone +contra +season +villa +russka
2014-07-18 11:15
0
1 reply
#165
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Australia tommytoan
i mean there are just so many to choose from. It emphasises the lack of quality and experience in csgo dev that they went through and created those 2 maps while a plethora of quality, competition hardened maps sit around doing nothing. Did csgo map makers even look at the cal/cevo version of cbble while creating their own take on it?
2014-07-18 12:12
0
#163
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Macau iknowit
ANY map is good if it is played enough. and if its played enough, valve will listen do advices and remove bugs, improve gameplay after pro tips ... the real problem is the pros want to perfect each map and therefore not accept any new ones, bec. that would mean they would have to learn new maps, create new strategies and invest a shitload of time. thats what they dont want to. the only reason pros accept cache, tuscan and season is because they already know them quite well. i fully support valve with taking in cobble and overpass. finally those lazy asses have to get up and we will see some new tactics, faster gameplay and not just boring "sit, wait, pick" ...
2014-07-18 12:02
0
4 replies
#168
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
false. tons of bad maps in cs 1.6 were played a lot (cpl_fire, cpl_strike, forge, cbble, dust, russka etc.) and they never became "good".
2014-07-18 12:21
0
3 replies
#169
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Macau iknowit
dont agree with cbble, i loved it back in the early css times when it was played on pro level. yes, it was totally unbalanced but also: it didnt allow any mistakes on CT side and that made in interesting again in my opinion. and yes, i agree with you, there were bad maps, but how should we figure out whether they are good or not if they are not played in important tournaments!? just give them a chance, improve them with pro feedback and if they still suck, remove them and replace them with another until we find another 2 or 3 proper maps to play in majors and every other important tournament. they cant improve if they dont get touched on a level where it really matters bec. simply players wont put in the time effort needed to improve them and wont give valve enough feedback. valve is obviously listening (see overpass and cobble changes) and thats why players should get a little more open minded when it comes to introducing new maps. ems one cologne will show if those maps have potential or not. i would love to see overpass as a random 3rd map decider and see the team win that actually pracced it and see the other team cry around like a baby bec. they were simply too lazy to have a close look at it and therefore lost there chance on a 100 grand. had work should pay off! maybe i am alone with that opinion, but i am really, really, really looking forward to ems cologne and seeing something fresh and new! props to you lurppis, keep up the good analyzing and commenting at the majors and also the good articles on hltv.org.
2014-07-18 12:43
0
2 replies
#170
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
United States lurppis
i don't know how it played in cs:s but in 1.6 it was TERRIBLE. some maps are very unbalanced - yes - but cbble offered no chances whatsoever for terrorists to win rounds vs. good ct teams. did you not read my article? we should figure it out by starting with lower levels, then gradually moving up. that way bad maps will never make it to majors. i certainly hope those maps don't get played; i don't want randomness to affect results at majors.
2014-07-18 12:56
0
1 reply
#176
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Macau iknowit
i understand your point of view, i just think doing it slowly will not bring new maps into majors and if it does, it will be really slowly (1 year or even more) which means we would at least see 2-3 majors with the same old map pool. cs:go is growing rapidly at the moment, so i think some fresh action right now is the right thing to attract even more viewers and players with the next major. i am just playing for fun and enjoy watching the majord. dreamhack was a blast, katowice brought in something new with the really big stadium and audience and therefore was a blast too, but map wise it was just like at the majors before. you new what would happen. so i think bringing in new maps into the next major is what will make cologne more spectacular and interesting. it will force unpredictable action (and pls dont forget that every team has the same amount of time to prepare!) which the commentators will be able to talk hours about and therefore make it more interesting for viewers. valve noticed too that those majors need some spice. i also think the introduction of the new maps in cologne has to do with the hint at a the international for cs:go. if that happens, cobble and overpass are in 100%. so considering that, overpass and cobble would actually be tested at a "smaller" tournament in cologne if the international gets real. [ just like you suggested ;) ]
2014-07-18 14:22
0
#164
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
 | 
Australia tommytoan
i like that you haven't gone down the track of tackling the whole, "but change is good, the new maps is change and we should embrace it" argument people keep bringing up. The argument has more holes then a leaky boat and hardly even deserves recognition now. Like you said, valve have fucked up, they don't talk to the community anywhere near enough, and they don't use one of the most beneficial resources open to them, the pro community.
2014-07-18 12:08
0
#171
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Netherlands JasperStats
We need cpl_mill
2014-07-18 13:16
0
#174
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Bulgaria krslus
TLDR : lurppis 6 months ago - "csgo sux, only inferno played at majors, we need moar maps" lurppis nao - "let us analyze - do we really want new maps" stop making the problem so dramatic - pro's need to be better than other players and prove it on a daily basis, including in time to learn a new map and improvising angles on the spot. There is balance and skill in losing 0:12/1:14 on cbble or prodigy and the psychological strength to do the same to the other team and bring it back. In almost two years of CS:GO we have seen exactly 2 such comebacks, and this is ridiculous when you take into the account the 20x more games pros play online compared to 1.6
2014-07-18 13:47
0
#182
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Switzerland Shadddy
nice
2014-07-18 20:36
0
#183
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
Denmark boNe-
I've never understood why some leagues feel the need to have new maps that isnt being used in praccs. Just makes for random results.
2014-07-18 22:06
0
#188
Old school: User been here for more than 10 years  | 
World rwwrou
we need more maps, not necessarily new maps, looking forward to things like tuscan, contra, russka, etc.
2014-07-19 10:21
0
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